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07-23-2009 02:14 AM  10 years ago
TopicTopic StarterReplyViewLast Post
••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
TP Balancing tab on a Hyperion Battery? ­čôĚ
cdrking 2 378 07-23-2009 03:58 AM
cdrking
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The TP205 manual has pretty good diagrams of the 2S to 5S balance leads

http://thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/TP205.pdf
 

07-22-2009 04:34 PM  10 years ago
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Which power supply? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
Ghostrider 27 1155 07-22-2009 07:57 PM
altima1779
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That's right - The 1.2% is the added 20% for efficiency losses between the Power Supply output and the Charger output - And believe me that 20% is pretty much hitting the nail right on the head meaning there's usually little or no headroom above that for squeezing out another drop of power which is why I say it's the 'minimum' output wattage necessary
 

07-22-2009 04:23 PM  10 years ago
TopicTopic StarterReplyViewLast Post
••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Which power supply? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
Ghostrider 27 1155 07-22-2009 07:57 PM
altima1779
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Like Benny said it's all about the Wattage - I charge up to 3 6S3000 packs at 2C from up to 3 106B+ chargers - 3 106B+ chargers can output 750W but I'm only using 450W from the Chargers which is 540W from the Power Supply after efficiency losses etc (25Vx6Ax1.2%x3=540W) - The Power Supply I'm using barely delivers this (13.8Vx40A=552W)

Theres two ways of calculating Power Supply Wattage needed for charging:
Pack Voltage x Charge Rate x 1.2% For Efficiency Losses = Minimum Necessary Power Supply Output Wattage
25V x 6A x 1.2% = 180W (6S3000 @ 2C)
or
5 Watts x # Of Series Cells x Charge Rate = Minimum Necessary Power Supply Output Wattage (came up with this one myself)
5W x 6S x 6A = 180W (6S3000 @ 2C)

So calculate your individual pack charging needs then add together what you will be charging simultaneously and choose an appropriate Power Supply accordingly - Or if you want to be able to use the full potential of your chargers then add together the full output Wattage capabilities of your chargers and add 1.2% for efficiency and remember that for many chargers to output their full potential (300W+) they need at least 15V input (Power Supply)
 

07-22-2009 05:34 AM  10 years ago
TopicTopic StarterReplyViewLast Post
••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Which power supply? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
Ghostrider 27 1155 07-22-2009 07:57 PM
altima1779
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I have a 13.8V/40A/550W PS - I can just charge 3 of my 6S3000 packs at 2C from it - If I were to buy another it'd probably be this $65 15V/40A/600W Meanwell from ProgressiveRC

http://progressiverc.com/index.php?...uemart&Itemid=1

This Power Supply should handle charging up to four 6S5000 packs at 1C or up to two 6S5000 packs at 2C etc
 

07-14-2009 03:56 PM  10 years ago
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Has anyone heard ( page 1 2 )
scott s. 20 2124 07-14-2009 07:32 PM
Steff Giguere
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well maybe not 'all' the best - I hear there's something called a Vibe50 that ain't too bad?

I doubt Align would be anywhere near where they are now if not for JK (nitro?)
All his heli designs do fly great - And the little 450Pro flies like wow
 

07-10-2009 02:48 AM  10 years ago
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tell me about your day? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
gearset 32 1261 07-10-2009 10:08 AM
LONEWOLF2440
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That's sounds like a full day dsd

TG - Thankfully it didn't take 30 hours to do all that charging - I'm using 4 Outrage 6S3000 packs and 2x 106B+ charging at 2C - I was only pulling 1600-1700mah for 5 to 5.5 minute flights so charge times were only about 22 minutes each - I only had to wait a few minutes between swapping packs on the chargers - Next month I'll have a 3rd charger and no waiting at all then
 

07-10-2009 12:56 AM  10 years ago
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tell me about your day? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
gearset 32 1261 07-10-2009 10:08 AM
LONEWOLF2440
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

RLY - Almost 3 hours of back-to-back airtime - I almost can't get enough of this heli
 

07-10-2009 12:40 AM  10 years ago
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tell me about your day? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
gearset 32 1261 07-10-2009 10:08 AM
LONEWOLF2440
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I put about 30 flights on my T500ESP today - Went through most of my low slow controlled upright basics from backward and sideways circuits to pirouetting circuits
 

07-09-2009 03:36 AM  10 years ago
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Closed ••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
MS Composit,LLC ? they still in bis. ­čôĚ
flyxpl 10 674 07-09-2009 01:29 PM
flyxpl
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Been a couple years since I dealt with them - Looks like it's not the same guy running it that I used to deal with - BButts now? Website is now stores.knbhobbies.com too?

Used to be:

Henry Jezek
MS Composit LLC
8766 South Street, suite 130
Fishers, IN 46038
http://www.mscompositusa.com

Before that it was Joe Ginski (MrCarbon)
in California at http://www.mscomposit-usa.com
 
 

07-08-2009 04:09 PM  10 years ago
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Has anyone heard ( page 1 2 )
scott s. 20 2124 07-14-2009 07:32 PM
Steff Giguere
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He has been kicking out some great designs!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only one so far.
JK designed the SynergyN9 - Trex600N - Trex500 - Trex700N - Trex450Pro

All the best designed helis on the market right now IMO
 

07-06-2009 12:51 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Battery and flight time (5 minutes?) TREX 450
Zaorish 12 4936 07-06-2009 06:23 PM
MANCHA
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

You can get a pretty good general idea of the pack capacity from the voltage if the packs are still in good condition

Here should be a close estimate of remaining capacity vs voltage

4.20V/Cell=100%
4.00V/Cell= 75%
3.85V/Cell= 50%
3.75V/Cell= 20%
3.70V/Cell= 10%
3.65V/Cell= 0%

So try to never go below 3.75V/Cell or 11.25V/3S pack

I was getting 4.5 minutes full throttle w/ 13t on my 450 with Outrage 2200 pack putting back around 1600┬▒ to 1700┬▒ mAh depending on how hard I flew it
 

07-01-2009 11:17 PM  10 years ago
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Do you do flat pirouettes in between your piro-flips?
jackheli 6 802 07-01-2009 11:17 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I do continuous piro-flips - No 'extra' piros while the heli is not also flipping - I usually start and finish both piros and flips at the same time

My piro-flips are also very orientation controlled as in I try to hit orientation marks with the heli throughout the piro-flips to keep it consistent
 

07-01-2009 10:17 PM  10 years ago
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Mode control ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
neale 24 991 07-01-2009 11:36 PM
JAGNZ
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well that's actually the environment changing rather than the vehicle - But operating one vehicle differently than you operate another vehicle probably wouldn't be as weird as that

Video games are not always mapped the same on the controller but somehow we manage to operate the different games just fine - We know we're playing this particular game which is controlled this particular way

Differentiating heli controls from plank controls really wouldn't be as weird as you'd think if you learned that way or became accustomed to it (association?)

I do know using mode2 for both helis and planks that when flying planks after I haven't in awhile I tend to reduce throttle when inverted as I'm so used to giving negative pitch when inverted with helis - When I fly planks more often this tendency goes away as I re-associate plank=throttle & heli=collective
 

07-01-2009 08:36 PM  10 years ago
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Mode control ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
neale 24 991 07-01-2009 11:36 PM
JAGNZ
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I don't think people should sacrifice using an easier mode just to fit in with the crowds - And I think if you happen to be mentoring someone you should be advising them to use the easier mode for that particular aircraft as well - The more people who convert and/or learn helis on mode2 the less of a 'regional' issue this becomes

I think using separate radios or mode selectable radios for helis and planks is the way to go for people who are serious about both types of aircraft - I've always been a mode2 user and am mostly into helis these days but if I were to get serious about planks again I think I'd try a mode4 radio just for them
 

07-01-2009 08:17 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Mode control ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
neale 24 991 07-01-2009 11:36 PM
JAGNZ
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I often thought planks would be easier on mode1 or 4 (rolling circles etc)

But helis on mode1 sounds like a nightmare to me
Take piro-flips for example - Mode2 you simply stir the right stick in a circular motion whereas mode1 you have to do these complicated figure8 motions with the right stick - I think for a 4-piro flip you have to wiggle out this double figure8 motion - Yikes
 

06-25-2009 01:35 PM  10 years ago
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POLL: Have your Skills "Plateaued"? What to do?? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
flustercluck 42 1961 06-26-2009 04:57 PM
flustercluck
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I myself do some of my best flying after I haven't flown in a bit - I think I'm going to be rusty as hell but instead it's quite the opposite and I end up amazing myself - I'm the same with other things too - If I haven't played RockBand for a few weeks again I think I'm going to be rusty and suck but instead I end up gold starring songs that I couldn't before first run without even trying - I don't know why it is but it just is - I can spend time trying to pound something out and get nowhere but put it down awhile and come back to it later and nail it without a sweat - Whats the big hurry anyways?
 

06-23-2009 06:12 PM  10 years ago
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POLL: Have your Skills "Plateaued"? What to do?? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
flustercluck 42 1961 06-26-2009 04:57 PM
flustercluck
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I still think stepping back is a good thing at certain points - Give your perspective a chance to change focus then come back with a run through of the basics and find yourself flying better than ever before and really enjoying it again - I know several great pilots in my area to have taken a hiatus at some point or lose interest all together - You do need to progress to keep interest but sometimes you get stuck or hit a wall and gotta go back to go forward - Step back and allow your perspective to change to find alternate routes to your goals
 

06-22-2009 06:23 AM  10 years ago
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POLL: Have your Skills "Plateaued"? What to do?? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
flustercluck 42 1961 06-26-2009 04:57 PM
flustercluck
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I was stuck not progressing and kinda took a break and found something else to do for awhile (became an expert drummer on my xbox rock band game) - Now a new season a new heli and back to basic/advanced orientation training I'm feeling better about my helis and progression again

I have Reflex too but I hit it hard and heavy when I first got it and now I can't hardly stand to use it at all anymore - I much prefer to just fly the real deal now
 

06-22-2009 04:52 AM  10 years ago
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Practice all orientations they say... ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
QuantumPSI 37 2547 06-23-2009 06:40 AM
QuantumPSI
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I've been spending some time with the basics lately and can tell already that my flying is going to benefit a lot from it

Hovering stationary in all orientations is just a part of orientation training - To really get anything out of it you definitely need to move the heli around in all the orientations as well

Here's what I've been doing -
Hover side-in - Move it (sideways) away from and back towards yourself - Then move it side to side (forward/backward) - Forward to backward eases you from tail-in orientation to nose-in orientation

Then the other side-in - Away from and back towards yourself (sideways) - Then side to side (forward/backward)

Then rotate to nose-in - Move it away from and back towards yourself - Then side to side - Perhaps even circles and such

Then backward circuits - Backward circles both directions - Then backward figure-8s

Then finally piros - Stationary both directions - Then back/forth and side to side both directions - Then piro-circles all directions - Then piro-8s

Then start all over again inverted

Then mix it up even (upright/inverted transitions and piro reversals etc)

This stuff was really awkward and gruelling during earlier attempts but now I'm actually enjoying it and I can tell it's seriously boosting my competence and progression - I regret not taking this stuff more serious long ago - Fun now tho
 

06-07-2009 05:42 PM  10 years ago
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v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

It comes down to flying style - If you're just flying circuits etc then none of this is going to mean anything but a little difference in flight time via the different average HS since there's not much loading happening - But if you're an aggressive flyer doing tic tocs and such then you will definitely appreciate the performance of a flat 100% curve vs a V-curve - Performance aside then yes constant HS is merely a personal preference
 

06-07-2009 05:21 PM  10 years ago
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v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

It will get some of it's HS retention by pulling more amps as per the volt constant (kv) of the motor - The motor will try to hold an rpm per volt and when more load is applied to the motor it will just pull more amps to compensate - There is some HS loss but not much with having inertia etc on it's side

Electric motor's torque curve is opposite of IC engine's torque curve - IC engine's have more torque at higher rpm so more throttle better translates into higher torque to grunt against HS loss - Electric motor's have less torque at higher rpm so throttle doesn't translate into torque as well - So it's better to run the higher HS and let it bog down little with the higher initial HS and inertia etc on it's side than to maintain a lower HS with throttling
 

06-06-2009 10:28 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think it's usually on the manufacturer's websites - Look some up - I think Axi motors spec their efficiencies

Someone else might be better qualified to answer your specific questions about this as I usually just fly whatever motors come with the kits and replace them with whatever is popular when they break
 

06-06-2009 10:10 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think good motors generally spec an efficiency rating but it's not an exact science to the average electric heli hobbiests - If you load the motor to near 80%-90% of it's freerun rpm you're certainly close enough in the ballpark for about any BL motor - Most heli kits come with a motor that I only assume is decently matched to the heli it's packaged with
 

06-06-2009 09:56 PM  10 years ago
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v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

You should be matching a motor a voltage and a gear ratio that loads the motor nearest it's peak efficiency at 100% throttle - So I'm assuming the heli is setup close to correctly in this manner
 

06-06-2009 09:44 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
v-curve vs flat... efficiency...? ( page 1 2 )
flipteg 38 1786 06-07-2009 06:13 PM
Ronald Thomas
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

You may get better battery efficiency from a V-curve simply because you are flying at a lower throttle part of the time - You will get better performance efficiency from a flat 100% curve because this puts the motor closest to it's peak efficiency rpm along with providing more enertia and less blade deflection etc for a particular control rate = less rpm loss vs a lower throttle or V-curve - You're just trading performance for flight time
 

06-05-2009 09:19 PM  10 years ago
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It ain't easy being green! ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
Josh Moen 40 2319 06-08-2009 06:47 PM
nitro fun
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That windmill that exploded either malfunctioned or was purposefully sacrificed as a test

Normally the windmill will engage a brake rotate it's blades and lock itself down at a particular rpm/wind speed to protect itself - They don't operate at all in high winds
 

06-03-2009 07:33 PM  10 years ago
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Whats More Efficient? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
Sean Williams 39 1558 06-04-2009 06:10 AM
Spitfire1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

It's my understanding that rather than throttle to a particular motor rpm we should be loading to a particular motor rpm to get the most power and efficiency and coolest run - Run full throttle and gear to load the motor as close to 90% of it's freerun rpm as possible - So that seems to leave no choice in a helicopter but to run full throttle and gear for the head speed and performance desired since nothing less than 100% throttle is ever going to put the motor nearer to 90% of it's freerun rpm under load
 

05-30-2009 10:14 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
iMax B6AC Charger question?
04stangman 6 1405 05-31-2009 12:49 AM
RCHeliJim
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Usually the AC chargers are both spendy and pathetic power-wise - Best to invest in at least one good power supply and use the more powerful DC chargers

For power supplies wattage is usually implied via the Amp and Volt rating (45A x 13.6V = 600W output)

The same isn't so for chargers - A 6S 10A charger might have the wattage to charge a 3S pack at 10A but not a 6S pack at 10A - So check the wattage and do the math - (Charger Wattage / Pack Voltage = Amp Output)

Chargers are usually about 80% efficient so you want a power supply that can deliver at least 1.2x the charger output wattage - (250W x 1.2 = 300W)
My advice is to get a PS powerful enough to run at least 2 chargers at your desired charge rate to minimize clutter
6S 5000mah x 2C = 10A
10A x 25V = 250W charger output
2x250W x 1.2 = 600W PS output
 

05-30-2009 09:59 PM  10 years ago
TopicTopic StarterReplyViewLast Post
••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
iMax B6AC Charger question?
04stangman 6 1405 05-31-2009 12:49 AM
RCHeliJim
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

It's because that's only a 50W charger

50W / 22.2V = 2.3A

Sorry but wattage is one of the most important things to look at when shopping for chargers - Make sure it's powerful enough for your needs
 

05-30-2009 05:41 PM  10 years ago
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Charger options?
flatsman9 9 944 05-30-2009 05:41 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Yep $10 - Cost me $150 for the charger a TP balance board a Deans charge lead and shipping

And the balance boards let you do multiple smaller packs in series
(2x3S or 3x2S etc) (just need series leads and hook em up correctly)

(BTW the adapter lead that comes with Outrage packs will plug directly into the charger)
 

05-30-2009 03:59 PM  10 years ago
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Charger options?
flatsman9 9 944 05-30-2009 05:41 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I have been seeing/hearing about a glitch lately - I have 3 or 4 buddies with at least 2 610i Duo-IIs each and one of them was having a balancing issue with one of his (1 cell showing wonky) and I heard of others here on RR having it too
It's only 1 out of at least 7-9 units I know of personally though (so far)
 

05-30-2009 03:27 PM  10 years ago
TopicTopic StarterReplyViewLast Post
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Charger options?
flatsman9 9 944 05-30-2009 05:41 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I was going to get a Hyperion 610i Duo-II like all my buddies too but then I found I could get 2 iCharger 106B+'s for the same price and have more power (2x250W vs 2x180W) - It can charge up to a 6S 5000 pack at 2C(10A)

http://progressiverc.com/iCharger.html

I have 1 currently and am impressed with it - Will be getting another or 2 later

Or the 20A 350W 208B isn't priced bad at all either

Don't forget you need a power supply able to deliver the power needed to charge at your desired rate

My power supply formula:
5W x Series Cells x Charge Rate
6S 3300 @ 2C:
5W x 6S x 6.6A = 198W Supply Output/Charger Input
 
 

05-22-2009 08:04 PM  10 years ago
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Tail control Wire? ­čôĚ
VooDooX 13 576 05-22-2009 11:19 PM
DKNguyen
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran - Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I say lose the supports and just slide a CF tube over the wire to make a solid rod - Cut it to length so that the wire threads are still usable for adjustments and epoxy it in place on the wire

You can kinda see mine here on my 450

 

05-20-2009 09:12 PM  10 years ago
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••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Expo, Expo and More Expo
maveric4 3 513 05-21-2009 12:27 AM
Gearhead
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I use expo on ail ele rudd & norm throttle curve - My pitch curves and idle-up throttle curves are all flat or linear so no point in it

If you use sub-trim on your cyclics then it wouldn't be a good idea to use swash-mix expo as sub-trims seem to mess it up and do more bad than good

JKos explains here:
http://www.runryder.com/p3155864/
 
 

05-20-2009 01:20 AM  10 years ago
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Kalt pictures ­čôĚ
rkeith2 5 636 05-20-2009 02:08 AM
GimbalFan (RIP)
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

My old Baron with Webra .28/Heliball muffler

 

05-19-2009 05:06 AM  10 years ago
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Spartan gyro tail drift
rotorstart 12 1688 05-19-2009 05:06 AM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Sounds like a vibe issue to me as well - I had the same issue on my 450 - I thought it was running smooth but better gyro tape cured my slow drift
 

05-15-2009 05:39 PM  10 years ago
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.. ­čôĚ
InvertedDude 18 1070 05-15-2009 09:26 PM
Flying Brian
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

One last comment before I head out -

If you setup 0┬░ pitch at neutral and have equal ┬░ of blade pitch each way then you should definitely have a faster piro rate in the CCW direction because of that 8┬░ or so worth of main rotor torque assisting a CCW piro and working against a CW piro

(remember this mainly applies to gyros that don't have separate left/right limits such as the GY401 - other gyros you can limit the CCW more than the CW for equal rates which just ends up with unequal deflections just like my method only in the opposite direction and minus the benefit of no yawing in rate mode)

See you all after the weekend
 

05-15-2009 03:56 PM  10 years ago
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.. ­čôĚ
InvertedDude 18 1070 05-15-2009 09:26 PM
Flying Brian
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The servo will have equal travel both directions from neutral - The slider will have slightly unequal travel from torque offset which will give equal piro rates

If your piro rates are good for you and you don't mind it piro'ing in rate mode then keep doing it the way you're used to

I can't get into this today - Gotta get on over to the FunFly
 

05-15-2009 08:48 AM  10 years ago
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.. ­čôĚ
InvertedDude 18 1070 05-15-2009 09:26 PM
Flying Brian
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Especially with a GY401 that doesn't have separate left/right limits I offset the servo arm usually one spline away from 90┬░ to even the left/right piro rates
 

05-15-2009 04:18 AM  10 years ago
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.. ­čôĚ
InvertedDude 18 1070 05-15-2009 09:26 PM
Flying Brian
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Folks are just getting confused thinking he is using the gyro sense function which he is not - He's just using the gear channel end points which anything between +1% and +140% is HH mode and anything between -1% and -140% is rate mode - If he were using the gyro sense function then anything above 50% would be HH mode and anything below 50% would be rate mode

I like using the gear channel end points as well myself as it gives you at least twice the resolution to dial in the gain - With my 2100T gyro I can give a couple clicks of sub-trim and the actual gyro gain will match right up with the end points on my radio - My HH gain is usually about +45%

I seriously doubt the Spartan would perform better not dialing in torque offset - If that were the case it would be a crappy gyro for people who use both rate and HH modes - Also separate left/right end points should have little or no effect on performance or they wouldn't have made such functions available

I myself equalize left/right servo travel from torque offset by offsetting the servo arm rather than using unequal end points - Just my thing - And I always dail in torque offset whether or not it aids performance not only because I like being able to neutralize my tail on the launch pad with the flip of a switch but it's also peace of mind if theres a malfunction and I have to fly the tail either in rate mode or without the aid of the gyro at all - It could be hairy but not as bad as if I had to counter a constant yaw as well as just keep it in control
 

04-12-2009 05:00 PM  10 years ago
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Faster Lipo chargeing pheory I have..
Spitfire1 12 574 04-12-2009 05:00 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I believe the Platinum EX is only a 90W charger (20W discharge) so 3.7A is the best it can do on 6S on any PS

Stopping the charge when the rate drops to about 1A (or 1/5 of set rate) should shave a good deal of charge time
 

04-04-2009 05:27 PM  10 years ago
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Align 35A ESC. What happens if you ignore the LVC?
stocky 4 718 04-04-2009 05:27 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

In heli mode the Align 35X will only perform stage 1 LVC which is just pulse
If ignored there eventually won't be enough power to fly to the peril of the batts

In airplane mode it will pulse when the voltage reaches stage 1 then kill the motor when the voltage reaches stage 2 to protect the batts
 

03-28-2009 09:07 PM  10 years ago
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Flybar lock vs. swash plate tool? ­čôĚ
Pureadrenalin 13 3741 03-29-2009 08:44 PM
chopper_crazy
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well there are significantly more steps to leveling the swash throughout the collective range via the flybar than via the swash directly

If you used the Trueblood to eliminate swash interaction then the flybar lock to sight output symmetry then that would be the way to go

If you know your swash is symmetrical and interaction-free then you know any asymmetry detected at the blades and flybar is coming from the linkages and levers in between
 

03-28-2009 06:27 PM  10 years ago
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Flybar lock vs. swash plate tool? ­čôĚ
Pureadrenalin 13 3741 03-29-2009 08:44 PM
chopper_crazy
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

If I had to choose just one it'd be a floating swash leveler like the Trueblood which will eliminate interaction at the swash throughout the collective range

From there it's really just a matter of getting all the levers and linkages orthogonal and symmetrical at neutral collective

You could probably rig a lock like a small hex wrench through the flybar channel to lock it in place while you adjust the levers and linkages and sight your pitch gauge
 

03-28-2009 06:01 PM  10 years ago
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i need instructions fot the tp425 charger
helidevil 2 337 03-28-2009 06:05 PM
helidevil
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think the manual is only 1 page - Could print it from pdf or just memorize it

http://thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/TP-425.pdf
 

03-26-2009 02:37 PM  10 years ago
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Chaos! To cheat or not to cheat? That is the question... ( page 1 2 3 )
jackheli 44 2300 03-27-2009 12:20 AM
Jeff polisena
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

No globe as in no loops - No such thing as stationary globe since the heli has to be travelling in order to loop

This is how the confusion starts and grows - People don't bother to learn the established maneuvers and their names before making up their own names and passing them off on everyone else - People see/hear a maneuver name and associate that name with what they think the maneuver is rather than finding out what it actually is - In the case of piroflip vs chaos people don't fully understand one to fully understand the other in order to tell them apart and with a lot of these people no amount of explaining will ever set them straight
 

03-26-2009 02:11 PM  10 years ago
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Chaos! To cheat or not to cheat? That is the question... ( page 1 2 3 )
jackheli 44 2300 03-27-2009 12:20 AM
Jeff polisena
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Piro-globe = Series of rotating piro-loops
as in:
Globe = Series of rotating loops
-

I had the idea of just going with the incorrect crowd somewhat and officially renaming them as so:

Sustained stationary piroflips -
Formal: "Fixed pitch axis chaos"
Informal: "Chaos"

True chaos -
Formal: "Rotating pitch axis chaos"
Informal: "Rotating chaos"
 
 

03-26-2009 02:45 AM  10 years ago
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Chaos! To cheat or not to cheat? That is the question... ( page 1 2 3 )
jackheli 44 2300 03-27-2009 12:20 AM
Jeff polisena
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I have a zipped XTR recording (converted to wmv) of a chaos performed by heli_max in my gallery

http://www.runryder.com/gallery/305...msTrueChaos.zip

First he performs just normal sustained piroflips then a piroflip in 4 individual orientations then puts them together in a full fluid chaos

It's not perfect but does break it down to show what it is and how it's done

Most poeple piroflip with the disk tumbling in a single direction usually away from them - A chaos rotates the tumbling disk axis 360┬║ in a controlled manner - So you have to be able to piroflip in every orientation and combine those orentations together into a fluid rotating chaos
 
 

03-25-2009 03:05 AM  10 years ago
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Align 325 night blades
CACTUSJACK (RIP) 9 612 03-25-2009 04:38 AM
Ikaros
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Guess I got lucky - I bought a set a year ago and they worked great and flew great and were bright all season and even survived a few crashes but did not survive winter storage as they would no longer hold a charge and finally did meet their end in a crash - I'd say I definitely got my money's worth out of a set of night blades that cost less than some top name day blades

(The first set you buy w/ charger for $52 then $42 per set w/o charger)
 

03-22-2009 08:34 PM  10 years ago
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Upgrading my Eflight CP Pro to Totally Brushless
jdone 5 413 03-22-2009 08:34 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think they just mean it doesn't have gov features and maybe no soft-start/cutoff etc - But it's not going to be governed controlling a fixed pitch tail anyways - I don't gov my main motors either and use basic TB-18 on main and TB-9 on tail
(tb-6 would probably be a more appropriete tail esc for other readers looking into this but nothing wrong with oversizing esc just undersizing - tb-9 on main did not work out for me and had to go with tb-18)
 

03-22-2009 06:41 PM  10 years ago
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Upgrading my Eflight CP Pro to Totally Brushless
jdone 5 413 03-22-2009 08:34 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The G-90 will work fine - I flew it with one for a season - A GY401 just holds better and doesn't have the annoying drift issues the G-90 has - I also tried a 2100T but it didn't seem to get along with the tail motor as well as the GY401
 

03-22-2009 06:12 PM  10 years ago
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Upgrading my Eflight CP Pro to Totally Brushless
jdone 5 413 03-22-2009 08:34 PM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Lots of resource around here for using a DX7

I have a thread about BL tail motors with a few different tail mixes depending on preference
http://www.runryder.com/t337407p1/

tutelar-rc has a few threads on BL in general and tail blade comparisons
http://www.runryder.com/t376585p1/

A search of the E-flite section will bring up as much as you care to ingest
 
 

03-22-2009 01:43 AM  10 years ago
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Swash Leveler ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
mariog 49 2752 03-26-2009 01:13 AM
Clearance
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Ah but it seems you have to manually adjust it to each swash position you wish to examine then follow the gauge face around the heli whereas the Trueblood leveler is free-floating allowing examination of all three points at once throughout the entire range of the swash even while in vertical motion
 

03-21-2009 11:24 PM  10 years ago
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Swash Leveler ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
mariog 49 2752 03-26-2009 01:13 AM
Clearance
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I don't know - I really like the Trueblood leveler I got from ReadyHeli

Remove the head and drop it down the shaft onto the swash and tweak the swash perfectly level throughout it's entire range with zero hassle

It may not get much use but it makes a daunting task super simple - To me it's an essential "right tool for the job" as ball link pliers

Well worth the $15 I paid for the 450 version to obtain a perfect setup w/ ease


 
 

07-17-2008 07:43 AM  11 years ago
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Thumb to Pinch - how long? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 )
JAGNZ 72 5781 07-17-2008 06:12 PM
w.pasman
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Are you holding the radio like Olli-Pekka pictured in his post? That's pretty much exactly how I hold my radio which I find very comfortable and easy to operate the switches between two fingers rather than with one finger on the tips of the switches

http://runryder.com/p3592771/
 
 

06-15-2008 05:54 AM  11 years ago
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Video game mindset ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
SkyWarp 20 1447 06-15-2008 05:54 AM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I've actually thought sims should be more like videos games in terms of incentive to progress linearly similar to video game levels - You'd have your freestyle mode for fartin' around and training mode for progressing through levels sort of like the pilot proficiency program - It would have virtual courses laid out for you to try to follow and wouldn't let you go on to the next maneuver until you've sufficiently mastered the current maneuver and would score you upon completion of each - You'd need a certain score to pass and continue to the next - Mastering a maneuver and moving on to the next would give a good sense of achievement - Also each maneuver you've completed you could go back to and try to improve your score with better precision which would give you along with bragging rights more skill and confidence to do the maneuver for real - Afterall flying helis is supposed to be fun right?
 

06-14-2008 11:17 PM  11 years ago
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Video game mindset ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
SkyWarp 20 1447 06-15-2008 05:54 AM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

In a heli sim the guy who isn't afraid to try things will learn fastest -Try and fail as many times as it takes to get it down - That's the point of the sim - If you treat it like the real thing you may as well be flying the real thing - You learn nothing new fast by staying within your current abilities
 

06-11-2008 05:44 PM  11 years ago
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Thumb to Pinch - how long? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 )
JAGNZ 72 5781 07-17-2008 06:12 PM
w.pasman
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

There's a lot of these threads and seems they tend to offend a lot of thumbers who jump in with a lot of clammering trying to defend thumbing and derail those wanting to convert to pinch - But here's something that speaks much louder than all the clammering in the world IMO:

No thread exists about pinchers wanting to convert to thumbs
You never hear a pincher say he wishes he were a thumber
 
 

06-11-2008 01:19 AM  11 years ago
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Thumb to Pinch - how long? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 )
JAGNZ 72 5781 07-17-2008 06:12 PM
w.pasman
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think a neck strap makes all the difference especially properly adjusted for ergonomics

You should adjust the neck strap length so the radio hangs level with:
  • Arms relaxed straight down at your sides
  • Elbows bent 90┬░
  • Wrists straight
  • Palms flat against the sides of the radio
  • Pinky fingers comfortably under the radio
  • Ring fingers comfortably at the top switches
  • Middle fingers comfortably at the face switches
  • Thumbs and index fingers comfortably on the sticks
I flip the switches one way with one finger and the other way with another finger - Top switches I engage with my ring fingers and disengage with my middle fingers - Face switches I engage with my middle fingers and disengage with my index fingers
 
 

06-08-2008 12:07 AM  11 years ago
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Align ESC
sky mechanic 5 984 06-16-2008 09:17 AM
Tintin
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

After initial binding and setup you need to re-bind the RX with all the channels set to your preferred power-on and fail-safe positions - If you happen to want neutral collective and low throttle you can power the TX on with the bind button pressed then quickly flip the throttle-hold switch on

It's safe practice to follow the powering procedure that paintball_kidz mentioned but when you become familiar with the system and confident it's setup correctly then you can turn the TX off without worrying what the RX will do - I myself very often power my TX off while walking out to retrieve my heli after flights which I actually feel safer about as nothing I do with the radio from that point short of powering it back on is going to effect the heli at all
 

05-31-2008 11:49 PM  11 years ago
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Lipo's charged @ 2c? ( page 1 2 )
RcNutTz 27 1143 06-01-2008 05:31 AM
RcNutTz
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Here's a post from an FP tech addressing some of the common questions and myths about lipo charging such as the 80% rule etc

http://helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=591341&postcount=6

I think I recall seeing a graph somewhere that showed how much faster degredation occurs beyond 80% capacity
 

05-31-2008 06:49 PM  11 years ago
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Lipo's charged @ 2c? ( page 1 2 )
RcNutTz 27 1143 06-01-2008 05:31 AM
RcNutTz
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Lipo charging is a 2-stage process - CC (Constant Current) & CV (Constant Voltage)
The charger will use whatever CC you select to charge the packs up to 4.2V/cell then will switch to CV and taper off the current to finish off about the last 10% of the charge which takes a little longer the earlier the packs reach full voltage

Setting a charge cutoff voltage or using the "fast charge" setting on some chargers will likely stop the charge at the end of the CC stage and not finish off the charge with the CV stage which is ok if you're in a hurry to fly and willing to give up a small amount of flight duration as that last 10% takes quite a while - Read your charger manual to understand it's different settings

A balancer is necessary for safe charging above 1C - Preferably one that communicates with the charger as it can terminate the charge if something is wrong and/or it just can't keep up etc

Very little if any degradation results from charging at 2C vs 1C - Hyperion tested 2C vs 1C charging and found only 0.3% more degradation over 50 cycles at 2C vs 1C - I think other companies haven't bothered with such a detailed test or just find the degradation too insignificant to report any at all

Many manufacturers recommend a max charge rate for their packs
FlightPower for example recommend these max charge rates for their packs:
EVOlite=2C
EVO25=2.5C
EVO30=3C
 

04-09-2008 06:02 PM  11 years ago
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How to determine class sizes?
Mavrik1 10 3066 04-10-2008 04:28 AM
DaveC2
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Nitro helis are typically classed according to engine size .30 .50 .90 etc and electrics are also typically classed according to motor size 200 300 400 450 500 600 etc then there's blade size classification which I believe converges with electric motor size at the 600 class where a heli will run both about a 600 size motor and 600mm blades - As for nitros typically .30s run 550mm blades .50s 600mm blades and .90s 700mm blades

So 3 different classifications a couple of which people sometimes confuse

Nitro engine size
Electric motor size
Blade size

 
 

03-28-2008 09:36 PM  11 years ago
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Horizon to discontinue selling JR radio systems on 72 MHz ???? ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
JuanRodriguez 82 5320 03-28-2008 09:44 PM
VKGT
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That test supports my suspicion about Spektrum in that I don't think it just scans for activity on a particular channel before using it but maybe the amount of activity - I believe even if you managed to get 80+ Spektrum systems linked up that they'd still work within their amount of free bandwidth and the signal to noise ratio SS can operate at

Sure there can come a point where the bandwidth is filled to the point that communication slows and/or halts even but I think that would require quite a concentration of these low-power signals - Other 2.4ghz device signals are going to diminish with range and physical obstuction - How far away from the base do 2.4ghz cordless devices work around your home etc? - As the AP guys learned long ago it takes a 2.4ghz TX being within inches of a 2.4ghz RX to swamp out it's signal and moving them just inches further away the signal then cuts right on through the closer/stronger signal and works just fine

IRCHA last year was a great test for the Spektrum systems and pasted with flying colors - Hunderds of Spektrum radios used without impounding - And most or all of the Spektrum 'lock-out' issues you hear about are self-induced rather than caused from outside interference
 

03-28-2008 05:52 PM  11 years ago
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Self-centered pitch/throttle stick ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
Morris 51 4789 03-28-2008 06:15 PM
Ace Dude
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

It's not something for everyone and if it were a feature on radios then it would be just that a feature like any other - Use it or don't - As for your hypothetical process of engaging such a centering mechanism you have it backwards - Instead of holding the stick at center while engaging the spring you'd hold the stick down while engaging the spring likely while in throttle-hold before spooling the heli - No 2Krpm spinning death machine while fumbling with it - And as I keep pointing out it's not an issue at all with soft-start electrics - You're already poised to fly just waiting for it to spool up on it's own - As for zero pitch hands off I don't think anyone should be taking their hands off the sticks for more than a sec or 2 anyways and only after appropriately positioning the heli first before doing so
 

03-28-2008 06:26 AM  11 years ago
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Self-centered pitch/throttle stick ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
Morris 51 4789 03-28-2008 06:15 PM
Ace Dude
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Very cool - That feature (or similar) needs a comeback on modern radios
 

03-27-2008 05:31 PM  11 years ago
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Closed ••­čÜüHelicopter Main Discussion
Chaos animation
jackheli 2 482 03-27-2008 05:34 PM
jackheli
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

 

03-27-2008 03:59 AM  11 years ago
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Self-centered pitch/throttle stick ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
Morris 51 4789 03-28-2008 06:15 PM
Ace Dude
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

As Dood mentioned you might can just setup your normal mode throttle and pitch curves accordingly - I see this auto-center thing pretty much a mod for electrics mainly as the use of a soft-start esc and throttle-hold pretty much eliminate the whole need for a normal mode - Either you're flying or you're in throttle-hold - Not spooled-up on the ground with hands off the radio for long
 

03-27-2008 03:17 AM  11 years ago
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Self-centered pitch/throttle stick ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
Morris 51 4789 03-28-2008 06:15 PM
Ace Dude
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think it's a great idea and even thought about doing it myself - A whole lot of us electric pilots rely on our soft-start ESCs and rarely use normal mode anyways - We spool up in IdleUp2 and down in Throttle-Hold - I think it has a good chance of catching on among electric pilots - Next thing you know radios will come with a switch-like lever to engage/disengage the auto-center
 

03-24-2008 10:18 PM  11 years ago
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Cellpro 4s charger question
flyingquisinart 17 963 04-08-2008 04:56 PM
flyingquisinart
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well I won't say anyone lied to anyone but I think about 0.3% cell degradation over 50 cycles is hardly anything to sweat about 1C vs 2C+ charging
There's truth and then there's truth with details - Some degree more cell degradation does occur at higher than 1C charge rates just as 1C charge rate likely results in some degree higher cell degradation than 0.5C rate and proper charging equipment is necessary to safely charge at higher than 1C charge rates whereas it's not so crucial for 1C and lower charge rates
 

03-24-2008 05:17 AM  11 years ago
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Cellpro 4s charger question
flyingquisinart 17 963 04-08-2008 04:56 PM
flyingquisinart
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I just read the documentation that came with my FlightPower 2170 pack which states:
The new 20C chemistry can be charged at 2C and above for the first 90% of it's capacity, given proper supervision and/or an appropriate LiPo fast charger. For most LiPo chargers on the market, setting the charger to a 1C rate should be regarded as good practice.
 

03-24-2008 04:10 AM  11 years ago
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Cellpro 4s charger question
flyingquisinart 17 963 04-08-2008 04:56 PM
flyingquisinart
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I believe it's a matter of degree - Cell degradation being insignificant (0.3%?) up to 3C - But I think 2C is the practical limit as anything higher than that only yields a few minutes shorter charge times over 2C vs the amount of time the packs spend at full voltage during the final phase of charging - Charging at higher than 1C might shorten pack life but I don't think by much so the benefit of shorter charge times can outweigh the risk of shorter pack life - I'm so used to higher rates that I don't think I could stand to go back to 1C - You do need a good balancer that can keep up balancing with higher charge rates - Cellpro chargers balance-charge so that's not an issue with them
 

03-24-2008 03:53 AM  11 years ago
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Cellpro 4s charger question
flyingquisinart 17 963 04-08-2008 04:56 PM
flyingquisinart
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The older 3A 4S charger had Auto 1C & 1.4C charge rates & manual .25A increment rates up to 3A - A123 storage & cold weather features

The newer 4A 4S charger has Auto 1C 2C & 3C charge rates & manual .25A increment rates up to 4A - A123 storage & cold weather features
 

03-24-2008 03:09 AM  11 years ago
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Anyone had this heli? ­čôĚ
eggmcmuffinplz 7 1201 03-24-2008 05:04 PM
jester4
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Yeah I don't think too many people have these helis - Take a browse or search through the MS Hornet section
http://www.runryder.com/f76p1/

I believe they were developed jointly with Ikarus and been out a couple years now I think - The MS versions are called the Stinger 3 and Stinger 6 and the Ikarus versions are call the Viper 70 and Viper 90

http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/onli...9a2df7.07050363
http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/onli...e20469.80191852
 

03-24-2008 02:52 AM  11 years ago
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Cellpro 4s charger question
flyingquisinart 17 963 04-08-2008 04:56 PM
flyingquisinart
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Yeah the newest 4S charger is limited to 4A (about 2C for 2000-2200 packs) as thats all the balance leads can safely handle - You need to charge via the main leads for higher than 4A rates - The 10S charger uniquely balance charges via both main and balance leads for higher than 4A rates or is also limited to 4A when only charging via the balance leads and not the mains

You'll need the TP/Polyquest adapter for TP/FP packs (if you dont want to solder cellpro leads on all your packs that is)

I've been charging at higher than 1C rates with my 3A 4S charger for over a year now without any noticeable degradation - I like my Cellpro charger and would repeat purchase
 

03-22-2008 07:40 PM  11 years ago
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bcp blades ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 )
TwistedrotoR12 20 1353 03-22-2008 08:05 PM
jschenck
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The stock built-in 3-in-1 BCP gyro is a basic Rate gyro - I flew a bone stock BCP for most of a season performing inverted funnels and all kinds of mild aerobatics - Just inverting the heli with a rate gyro will not cause it to spin out of control or anything of the kind - It flies inverted just the same as upright

This will be my 3rd season flying a BCP though it's no longer stock - I've installed brushless motors main and tail and a GY401 gyro and it can do pretty much anything my Trex or any other heli can do - I happen to really like this heli which is why I've put money into upgrading it and I recommend that be the main reason for anyone to put money into upgrading a BCP vs just buying something else as it's still a challenge to fly compared to more stable helis
 

03-13-2008 07:57 PM  11 years ago
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How hard is it to fly without a gyro? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 )
szangvil 40 3106 03-16-2008 11:18 AM
Rui_JC
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

My first heli was a fixed pitch Kalt Baron 30 with Webra .28 (heliball muffler) no gyro and basic 4 channel radio and that video was exactly my experience with it - I'd get frustrated with just scooting it around on the ground and just wanted to fly it but contact with the ground was the only thing that kept it under control - Once it was totally airborne it was a major handful that ended each time just like that video ended

I got rid of it and later bought a collective pitch Shuttle and put a G153 mechanical gyro on it - What a different experience - But the gyro had it's own switch that you had to remember to switch on which I'd of course forget to do once in awhile and take off as usual and oh nelly was I lucky to get it back on the ground in one piece - The tail control felt so slippery like the tail was on ice it was all over the place - Of course it wasn't setup to fly without a gyro - Those days were over and good riddance
 

03-11-2008 09:07 PM  11 years ago
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Horizon to discontinue selling JR radio systems on 72 MHz ???? ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
JuanRodriguez 82 5320 03-28-2008 09:44 PM
VKGT
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Here's something dug up from just general SS info about signal to noise ratio
All SS systems have a threshold or tolerance level of interference beyond which useful communication ceases. This tolerance or threshold is related to the SS processing gain. Processing gain is essentially the ratio of the RF bandwidth to the information bandwidth.

A typical commercial direct sequence radio, might have a processing gain of from 11 to 16 dB, depending on data rate. It can tolerate total jammer power levels of from 0 to 5 dB stronger than the desired signal. Yes, the system can work at negative SNR in the RF bandwidth. Because of the processing gain of the receiver's correlator, the system functions at positive SNR on the baseband data.
http://www.spectrum-analyzer.info/SpreadSpectrum.aspx

In this case small bits of data over 1M of bandwidth is hardly occupying I'd say especially in ms intervals - I'm pretty sure there would have to be some very heavy and/or powerful traffic on a particular channel for a Spektrum system to pass it over for another channel and most 2.4ghz devices have a low power regulation to prevent them from such swamping out of other 2.4ghz devices

Remember most cell phones in a particular area are all sharing just a single channel from a cell tower and how many of them all work together at the same time? Spektrum has 80 channels to choose from and I don't know how many Futaba and other SS systems hop through - I think there's plenty of room folks even if multiple systems happen to simultaneously share the same channels which definitely isn't possible with 72mhz even if it's just noise - PCM helps filter out noise interference but no where near to the degree of SS

As for Horizon I'm sure they're simply adjusting to demand - Hobby shops are having a hard time moving 72mhz these days so Horizon is having a hard time moving it as well - Consumers who are heavily invested in 72mhz and not converting to 2.4ghz are a low percentage and new people coming into the hobby are going straight for 2.4ghz which in a lot of cases is their only choice these days - So why continue to purchase and stock what they can't move? I'm just somewhat surprised how quickly 2.4ghz took over to this degree but expected it eventually - The first time I flew on 2.4ghz I knew I could never go back to 72mhz - The solid connection was that noticeable to me after being used to 72mhz for 20 years - It felt like coming from a squirly cheap Rate gyro to a solid quality HH gyro - Never fully realised either how bad it was or how good it could be until actually experienced the difference - I immediately quite using and eventually sold my Stylus sacrificing it's vast functionality in favor of my simple but solid DX6 and later DX7
 

03-11-2008 03:55 AM  11 years ago
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What's a good cheap micro heli? AXE CP or HONEY BEE II
fbone 19 742 03-11-2008 11:49 PM
eggmcmuffinplz
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The Honey Bee King 2 isn't a bad little heli for only $150 RTF - I'd definitely recommend it over the Axe CP and other Honey Bees etc - Even stock it should be up to the task of beginner aerobatics with cheap and easy repairs

http://www.helidirect.com/product_i...roducts_id=3275

http://www.helidirect.com/index.php?cPath=38_235_259
 
 

03-01-2008 10:35 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Ok I found my math hangup - Time for me to eat a little crow

I was only subtracting the torque from left piro but not from right piro in calculating equal rates - I'll scrutinize and compare my setups more sometime but I could swear it was better offset or maybe I've just been delusional - I'm not admitting to anything beyond my math error just saying it's possible

40┬░ right from 8┬░ offset would equate to 32┬░ without torque
40┬░ left from 8┬░ offset would equate to 48┬░ without torque (if possible)
48 minus 32 equals 16 instead of my 40 minus 32 equals 8 - My bad
 

03-01-2008 07:31 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I understand perfectly what you're saying and it makes great logic but so does calculating it the other way by adding or subtracting torque offset from equal left/right blade deflections - A piro rate of 16┬░ right should equal a piro rate of 16┬░ left minus the 8┬░ offset difference which is 8┬░ left instead of the 0┬░ of your calculation
 

03-01-2008 06:47 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I don't think that unequal blade deflection is wrong - I'm saying the particular unequal blade deflection produced is incorrect for equal piro rates - For left piro rate equal to 40┬░ right deflection you subtract the torque offset from 40┬░ left blade deflection - The degrees of blade deflection between torque offset and 40┬░ right when added to the left from torque offset falls short of the target deflection needed for equal piro rates by the amount of offset deflection

40┬░ right from 8┬░ offset is 32┬░
40┬░ left minus 8┬░ offset is 32┬░ left (target)
32┬░ left from 8┬░ offset is 24┬░ left which is 8┬░ shy of the 32┬░ left target

40°R 8°R 24°L   vs   40°R 8°R 32°L
 
 

03-01-2008 05:48 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The non-linearity of whatever linkage between the servo and the tail blades gets nullified in the end - Offsetting the servo arm creates equal left/right servo rotation for each direction of unequal slider travel from zero-rotation torque offset - This means equal servo rotation each direction for equal piro rate each direction - Whatever happens with the linkage between those points I believe is inconsequential - Could I be wrong? Seems to eliminate the need to tweak ATVs to equalize piro rates and increases potential performance through a range of torque changes with greater left blade deflection
 

03-01-2008 04:11 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I used 45┬░ partly as example but I do actually try to setup that much myself but whatever amount of pitch you run with the GY401 it would be imbalanced by the amount of torque offset without also offsetting the servo arm - (30┬░ 8┬░ 14┬░)

Here's something from Colin Mill (CSM gyros) regarding total amount of tail blade pitch and the need for more left pitch than some people think
I know not everyone will agree with me about the pitch range thing but all my testing suggests that you need to achieve about 45 degrees of right tail pitch and (because governors now back the engine torque off so much in low load manoeuvres) you need rather higher amounts of left pitch - say 40 degrees - than used to be the case to obtain optimum tail authority. In many cases this does require modifications to the tail to achieve. If you are sceptical about this it's easy to do some tests on the ground with a couple of spring-balances restraining the tail and you will see that the thrust of the tail continues to increase all the way out to 45 degrees of pitch and (because of the inflow speed) the blades don't stall.
The 2100T is fairly modern but doesn't have such things as stop gains so it too is very sensitive of zero-rotation at center to have good stop behavior - Perhaps with the fancier high-end gyros these days it'll come down to preference rather than necessity whether to tweak mechanically or electronically to optimize performance - But with the mid-end gyros most of us use it's still necessity more than preference
 

03-01-2008 12:43 AM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well offsetting the servo arm a spline is something I consider mechanical trim Plus having the servo arm offset adds rotational differential so that you get more slider travel to the left than to the right which gains the travel lost to torque offset - Even though the lesser travel was in the direction of the torque it still wasn't enough for equal rate with the right - Usually there is no other mechanical or ATV adjustments required to have symmetrical performance using this method - Using sub-trim does the same thing and is just as simple to do a one-step hover trim then reset the gyro then set the limit - It starts things off a whole lot closer if not right on than at 90┬░ and having to equalize out that 8┬░ or whatever difference with ATVs etc - What's 8┬░ piro rate worth of ATV anyways? I don't have to find that out my way - 45┬░ left minus the amount of torque offset which is about a servo spline and the rotational differential of that spline angle equals pretty darn close to 45┬░ right piro rate - Pretty simple and close if not right on
 

02-29-2008 07:05 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Because my ways there won't be a weak side to have to tweak and there will be more left blade deflection available for increased potential - Why work with a limited and off-balanced setup when you don't have to? Just move the servo arm over a spline and all is equalized and good to go
 

02-29-2008 06:50 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well what I'm saying is the GY401 has a mechanical limitation in one direction vs the other with a particular setup method and I offered solutions to overcome that mechanical limitation with other setup methods to increase the gyros performance potential by making more left blade deflection available which also mechanically equalizes the piro rates for less electronic tweaking

Gyros with separate left/right limits don't have this issue as one direction isn't mechanically limited by the other direction so they can make up total left deflection lost to right offset to have the highest performance potential and mechanically equal piro rates
 

02-29-2008 05:45 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well what I described is what I believe to be the mechanical limits of symmetry and overall piro rate - You can only electronically reduce the greater right to match the lesser left but you can't electronically increase the lesser left beyond it's mechanical limit to match the greater right - You can scale it to what ever piro rate you like but it's always going to be mechanically unequal requiring electronic compensation

The examples I gave to overcome this is the only way to achieve the full potential of the tail rather than stint it and it also reduces the tweaking needed to acheive symmetrical performance
 

02-29-2008 05:34 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Just to throw this out there regarding GY401 setup and performance - Setting it up with the servo arm 90┬░ to the linkage at torque offset limits left piro rate vs right piro rate as the mechanical travel for left is limited by the amount of mechanical travel to the right from offset

Say it takes 8┬░ of offset for zero rotation so that's 8┬░ less left pitch needed to match right piro rate - 45┬░ right and 37┬░ left for equal piro rates correct? - But you actually come up about 8┬░ short of that even (45┬░ right minus 8┬░ equals 37┬░ so 8┬░ right plus 37┬░ left equals 29┬░ left which is about 8┬░ shy of the 37┬░ left target for mechanically equal piro rates)

There's two ways to overcome come this
  1. Put the servo arm 90┬░ to the linkage at 0┬░ blade pitch and adjust sub-trim to the 8┬░ offset then reset the gyro to the new center then set the limit
  2. Simply offset the servo arm a spline
What both of these do is offset the servo arm to match the zero rotation blade offset and provides differential from the servo rotation to make up the 8┬░ more left pitch needed from offset to match right piro rate
 

02-29-2008 03:05 AM  11 years ago
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Manuals?
Marty55 9 552 02-29-2008 06:26 PM
cessna151
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

 

02-29-2008 01:17 AM  11 years ago
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Charger Or Battery Problem
HeliMan08 2 347 02-29-2008 01:17 AM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

E-flite RTF lipo chargers are notoriously junky - Best to invest in a decent charger
 

02-28-2008 11:33 PM  11 years ago
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Crazy idle up problem
Nicros 11 755 02-29-2008 06:31 PM
heligrom
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think with electrics constant RPM isn't as important as smooth torque - I too run flat 100% non-gov throttle in id2 and let the RPM bleed some under load to keep the torque smooth which is easier on the tail as long as the tail speed doesn't get bogged down too much

Since the Norm throttle curve is the one with all the ramp up you can go ahead ramp it right on up near id1&2 to reduce the transitions between all flight modes at and above 50% stick

Many of us small electric guys run curves similar to this
  • Norm 0-50-80-90-100
  • Id1 100-93-90-93-100
  • Id2 100-100-100-100-100
So each mode is only about 10% different from the one next to it at 50% stick and less difference increasing towards 75% and 100% stick

If you don't want to run full throttle you can scale it down to like 80% in Id2 70% in Id1 and 60% in Norm at 50% stick and still be in or near efficiency bands
  • Norm 0-40-60-70-80
  • Id1 80-73-70-73-80
  • Id2 80-80-80-80-80
Could probably even get away with up 20% difference between modes and enjoy both RPM worlds
  • 0-40-60-70-80
  • 80-80-80-80-80
  • 100-100-100-100
    (I probably wouldn't switch straight between Norm and Id2 anywhere with this though)
You have a lot of feedom with electrics but usually the lower throttle you run the more heat is generated which isn't good for anything
 

02-28-2008 09:21 PM  11 years ago
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Sub trim ­čôĚ
Frank Bostwick 14 735 02-28-2008 09:24 PM
Dood
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Might be a slight more concern when using sub-trim with swash mix expo on JR and Spektrum radios

http://www.runryder.com/t396222p1/
 

02-28-2008 06:19 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Sort of - I believe the gyro still uses it's calibrated center vs rudder input to correct for unwanted rotation while attempting to maintain a given commanded rotation rate and/or bring a rotation to a commanded stop - It doesn't just measure rotation and correct it - It corrects it in accordance with other variables - The closer it's center is to zero rotation the better and more consistently the gyro can perform under various conditions and the less tweaking of ATVs etc is needed to achieve symmetrical performance

I think the GY401 is very deceiving with it's tolerance to poor setup which seems to lead people to believe that it works more 'magically' than it does - It makes it easy for beginners to setup and get adequate performance without a lot of fuss but it also seems to give them misconceptions of how gyros really work and how important proper setup really is

The 2100T is opposite being quite finicky about it's setup and demands proper setup for even adequate performance - You won't likely set this gyro up with zero pitch at neutral input and expect it to perform worth a hoot
 

02-28-2008 05:57 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Right - Load has nothing to do with gyro/servo setup and calibration - It only effects servo performance after the fact so we choose servos spec'd to perform to our satisfaction under given load demands

Heli rotation caused by main rotor torque is all that matters in gyro/servo setup by offsetting tail blade pitch to counter main rotor torque for zero rotation at neutral rudder input and calibrating the gyro's center to that zero rotation at neutral rudder input to maximize performance
 

02-28-2008 04:48 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

For setup and trimming to calibrate the gyro's center at zero rotation so it can more efficiently measure rotation against it's center position and rudder input for optimal performance with more consistent piros and stops

People usually fly scale models in rate mode to give them more realistic scale behavior with a weathervaning tail that tracks to the heli's direction of travel without much rudder input - It simply dampens rotation rather than corrects it - A bit of a different control feel adjusting your cyclic input to the weathervaning heli vs adjusting rudder to the heli's direction of travel (or not)
 

02-28-2008 03:30 PM  11 years ago
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can someone PLEASE explain these gyro staements for me? ­čôĚ ( page 1 2 3 4 ... Last page )
fenderstrat 107 4611 03-02-2008 02:26 AM
Invrted1
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I just said this elsewhere but will copy/paste most of it here:

Just because gyro performance is adequate doesn't mean it's optimal - There's a reason the GY401 manual instructs to set it up and trim it out in Rate mode before operating it in HH mode and why the gyro calibrates center every time it's booted and wants re-calibrated every time the trim is changed - It assumes you trim to zero rotation and calibrates it's center as reference to that assumed zero rotation - If it didn't matter where zero rotation is it wouldn't be so fussy about it's center - It's not just about how hard the gyro works but how well it works - It's efficiency contributes to it's performance

Have a Look at this post - http://www.runryder.com/p3288819/

People say the 2100T must be setup in rate and is more difficult but what they mean is it's more fussy about it than the GY401 - If the 2100T's center isn't exactly at zero rotation it will complain about it - The GY401 is just less fussy and won't always come right and tell you that it's struggling like the 2100T will
 

02-26-2008 02:25 AM  11 years ago
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digital scales ­čôĚ
scottc 10 803 02-26-2008 01:20 PM
w8qz
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Well I ain't seen no .01g scales for no $10

I'd love to have one but not enough to dish out the kind of cash for it
 

02-26-2008 02:02 AM  11 years ago
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digital scales ­čôĚ
scottc 10 803 02-26-2008 01:20 PM
w8qz
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I think I have yours beat

Here's mine
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=93543
500g capacity - I can weigh my entire (AUW) 300 size helis on it but not my 450
 

02-25-2008 01:53 AM  11 years ago
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CCPM ???
patriot21 8 659 02-25-2008 01:53 AM
Micro-Maniac
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Small amounts of sub-trim you may not be able to detect any weirdness

Swash expo is good if you don't have any or much sub-trim but apparently the calculations are flawed in such a way that sub-trim combined with swash expo throws off the swash mix some
 
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