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04-09-2020 10:13 PM  7 months ago
Gearhead

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Al Austria It's data, it has no motives.
the data has no motive unless the numbers were purposely incorrect.
the news here today said 2000+ in the USA died since yesterday from C-19
Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
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04-10-2020 04:27 AM  7 months ago
Al Austria

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Jerry K I know more people that have died from suicide than Corona.
You, and I, both know more people that have died from suicide than Corona. The difference is that suicide isn't communicable and can't spread exponentially across continents.

7,200+ deaths worldwide due to COVID-19 today:

1,900 deaths in the US due to COVID-19 today:

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04-10-2020 08:31 AM  7 months ago
wjvail

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Al Austria 1,900 deaths in the US due to COVID-19 today:
If a fat, diabetic, chain smoking 65 year-old man dies and has COVID, are they categorizing that as death from COVID? If a 55 year-old homeless heroin addict is brought in and is found to have COVID, is he dying from COVID? In other words, did 1,900 people die yesterday from COVID or with COVID?

Approximately 7,700 Americans are going to die daily. More during flu season. Assuming the 1,900 counted as having died from COVID is correct, how many of those 1,900 were not expected to live through any flu season?

So 1,900 died yesterday. 30 days in a month. If things continue, we would expect 57,000 additional deaths by mid May and about 685,000 COVID deaths annually. About 2,8 million Americans die every year. Looking at the numbers, I'm I being asked to believe America's death rate will grow by 24% as a result of this flu?

And asking the same question yet one more way, how much has the total death toll, per day, climbed from its statistical average as a result of this flu? 1,900?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/...onal-tables.htm
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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04-10-2020 10:52 AM  7 months ago
Xterra

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The data you see is COVID related deaths. You will pretty soon the paper showing the severe cases. Those are the cases that might become fatalities tomorrow. The severe cases are also worrisome. Our health systems is the hot spots are getting overwhelmed. The cost to treat those cases so they don't die involves a huge amount of money. Identifying cases by detecting the viral genome is really expensive too. We haven't even really started to sequence the strains circulating in USA. We have some data but we really do not have the whole picture. Sequencing is also very expensive. No matter how you slice it this is a bad situation. Small business are going to take a enormous hit. I can't wait for this thing to go away.
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04-10-2020 12:34 PM  7 months ago
spaceman spiff

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Hang in there Xterra.
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04-10-2020 04:16 PM  7 months ago
wjvail

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Xterra... Thank you for that civil and thoughtful response.

Years ago I attended the Navy's Aviation Safety School. It is an intensive 6 week school covering everything from aviation psychology to accident investigation. On the first day of class the question was asked: "Is safety paramount?"* Think about that for a moment.....

We were given time to consider the question and almost everyone in the room answered, "Yes - safety is paramount". That was followed by a long list of statistics that suggested the Navy crashes more airplanes at night, in bad weather, off the ship, etc, etc. Then the question: "If safety is paramount, why do we continue these activities?"

All of this was leading up to the conclusion that safety isn't, nor every was, more important than anything else. In fact, there is an acceptable amount of risk. It was an introduction to risk assessment/risk analysis.

We do the same calculation in civil aviation. There was a time when no one would have dreamed of flying across an ocean with less than 4 engines. While it would clearly be safer to have 4 engines, today we routinely do it with just two. Not to put too sharp a point on it, we (intelligently) risk peoples lives for economics.

So that leads us to today. I ask the question, how many lives have to be saved to justify the shutdown and collapse of our socioeconomic system? Yes all lives matter. Sure, any loss is too much... But those that might respond "the loss of a single life is one too many", don't understand the world we live in. There is a number, great than zero, of acceptable losses. Sorry but that is the world "God"** created. We have sent our children home from school. We have put people out of work. Business are shuttered. We canceled the baseball season. Parks and biking trails are closed. The "stimulus" bill just cost every American taking a breath $6,000 - all of it payable by our kids. Can we agree that there has to be a very real reason for this? The costs I just listed are not, in my opinion, acceptable to save the lives of 1,000 asthmatic alcoholics in New York.***

Today I neither know how many lives have been saved or the cost. I ask these questions for the benefit of the generations after me. I suspect we are severely damaging our country and their future and I'm trying to understand the situation.
-----------------------------
* paramount -- more important than anything else; supreme

** I don't want to make this a religious discussion. Insert whatever "God" you choose.

*** We assume when we hear "1,900 deaths yesterday" that we are talking about 35 year-old hard working farmers in Iowa. Without more data I can't say who is suffering from this flu.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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04-10-2020 04:34 PM  7 months ago
dgoss999

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I am not from the USA - But its reported (if this is correct) here in the UK there are more people infected with COVID-19 in NYC today than any other COUNTRY ...

Surely this needs a drastic response to slow this Cotangent rate??
https://www.facebook.com/scale.skids.52
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04-10-2020 05:43 PM  7 months ago
spaceman spiff

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The schools are closed, bars and restarants are closed, non esential busnesses are closed, washing hands, travel shut down, quarantines, late scrambling for masks, scrambling for treatments and ventilators,,,,.

... but someone here is not impressed with the number of deaths, so somehow that means we should not do any of the preventative stuff that we are doing. (?)
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04-10-2020 07:23 PM  7 months ago
dgoss999

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Is this information accurate?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52241221

DG..
https://www.facebook.com/scale.skids.52
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04-11-2020 12:09 AM  7 months ago
wjvail

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dgoss999 I am not from the USA - But its reported (if this is correct) here in the UK there are more people infected with COVID-19 in NYC today than any other COUNTRY ...
An interesting discussion point. Again more statistics.

The population of the UK is about 60 million. The population of the metropolitan New York area is about 20 million. The population of the metropolitan London area is about 14 million.

Looking at the reported cases in New York vs the United Kingdom, and considering the UK has 3 times the population of New York, you might expect the UK to have a 3 times the infection numbers. But it's never that simple. Is it possible New York is simply testing more and therefor reporting more cases? Egypt has about 97 million people and has only reported 1,800 cases of COVID and 135 deaths. Does that mean Egypt is immune or simply not tracking this as well as other places? The US is reporting 1,500 cases per million. Mexico is reporting 27. Libya is reporting 3 cases per million. What is really being measured by these statistics?

Or maybe it's this - while the entire UK has far more people than New York, New York has far more people than London (20 million vs 14 million). Outside of London - Scotland, Ireland and Wales - the UK is FAR less densely populated. Possibly when we are reporting infection rates we are only cataloging population density. Below is a picture of the earth at night. It's hard not to notice the lights in Italy and along the US's East Coast.

So many things to consider when looking at statistics.

https://google.com/covid19-map/?hl=en

"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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04-11-2020 04:49 AM  7 months ago
Jerry K

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Give up Bill. It is the same with politics, you cannot change their minds with facts. This is the same with safety in my industry, ALL accidents are preventable which is true. But at what cost? He if we can save 1 life it is worth it. It doesn't matter if it destroys the economy. Now after the economy has been destroyed, and the suicide rate doubles, from 50K/yr to 100K/yr they did not die from the Mexican beer virus. Life sucks then you die! There is an agenda in play here!!!
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04-11-2020 05:51 AM  7 months ago
Al Austria

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6,900+ deaths worldwide due to COVID-19 today:

2000+ deaths in the US due to COVID-19 today:
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04-11-2020 01:29 PM  7 months ago
Al Austria

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wjvail If a fat, diabetic, chain smoking 65 year-old man dies and has COVID, are they categorizing that as death from COVID? If a 55 year-old homeless heroin addict is brought in and is found to have COVID, is he dying from COVID? In other words, did 1,900 people die yesterday from COVID or with COVID?
Somewhat relevant to the above question:

Reference:
https://www.worldometers.info/coron...x-demographics/
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04-11-2020 01:41 PM  7 months ago
Al Austria

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Jerry K Where are the hourly death tolls on the 50k suicide deaths this country experiences every year?
Suicides today(3rd item from the bottom):

All data I've shared thus far is from:

https://www.worldometers.info/
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04-11-2020 04:09 PM  7 months ago
Jerry K

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Al, I understand they can be found just like You & I both did, BUT they are not being pushed out by the media on an hourly basis, attempting to exploited the hysteria. Thanks for adding to my point. If you do not think that destroying the economy, where by increasing the un-employment to 30% is not going to raise the suicide rate you are wearing rose colored glasses. Life is fragile and some have a severe problem with it then adding the loss of your life income and savings.

There are comprises in everything! If in the process of saving lives from CV-19 and the suicide rate doubles, you have won the battle but lost the war.But at least they did not die of the CV-19!

I still believe this is politically motivated and the media is originating it. The left knows it is the ONLY way to beat Trump!!!
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04-11-2020 04:46 PM  7 months ago
Al Austria

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Jerry K Al, I understand they can be found just like You & I both did, BUT they are not being pushed out by the media on an hourly basis, attempting to exploited the hysteria. Thanks for adding to my point. If you do not think that destroying the economy, where by increasing the un-employment to 30% is not going to raise the suicide rate you are wearing rose colored glasses. Life is fragile and some have a severe problem with it then adding the loss of your life income and savings.
I appologize for answering your question.
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04-11-2020 04:48 PM  7 months ago
wjvail

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Jerry K Give up Bill. It is the same with politics, you cannot change their minds with facts.
As long as there are a few people here engaged in a civil discussion, I will continue. We don't have to agree. Differing opinions are welcome.

It appears a few here have got this one figured out and turned their receivers off. It's not at all unusual for people to become defensive, insulting or belligerent when faced with information that doesn't fit into the model they've created. It's human nature and I expect it. It's something I'm equally capable of and have to work to avoid.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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04-11-2020 05:03 PM  7 months ago
elmobad

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Jerry K There is an agenda in play here!!!
This is the point I have been trying to convey exactly!!

Never in history has an economy shut down for a "pandemic". Even during the Spanish Flu there were localized shut downs but not on a national lvl. There is piles and piles of solid real data that indicates something is not right with what we are being told.
Jerry K Give up Bill. It is the same with politics, you cannot change their minds with facts.
Your right they the masses there minds are made up. FEAR has truly become a very powerful and popular religion in this world. It is nearly impossible to connect truths to a religious believer.

We can never stop doing looking for the truth no matter the cost. If I am wrong, and what is being told the covid 19 is the worst event in human history, I will be the first in line to eat my words.

FEAR is so so much to powerful and dangerous. It is being used to give these over zealous political leaders power to manipulate our way of life in terrible ways.

Again I hope and beg I am wrong, but I dont see this ending in a positive way.
GOT FBL?
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04-11-2020 07:13 PM  7 months ago
JLF92677

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COVID-19 Tracker - All data, graphs and maps in one place

https://www.bing.com/covid/local/unitedstates
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04-11-2020 07:22 PM  7 months ago
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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I met a flat earther a while back. Nice guy, but astoundingly dense.
Folks can show him the curve, he could measure it himself, but it does not even register. I can show him pictures that show everything in the visible universe is round, but nothing gets thru that thick skull. Reminds me of some of you.
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