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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Yin tech calls out Matt botos.
01-11-2020 03:03 PM  14 days ago
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ICUR1-2

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Yin tech calls out Matt botos.
Dear all

according to the current situation, which includes offending and blaming us based on wrong given statements and information by Synergy USA. We have no option left, even we have tried everything to avoid such conflict and unnecessary action. The following statement provided by Mr. Yen the owner of Yintec will show you the real story behind Synergy and Yintec:

Hello,I'm Mr. Yin, the owner of Yintechfactory. When I saw what Matt had said, I thought it was important to let the public know about SYNERGY.
First of all : Synergy wasn't and isn't a U.S. company, and it doesn't belong to Matt Bottos. From day one, it was owned and funded by Stephen Fan, a Hong Kong citizen.
Matt is not the boss of SYNERGY.

In 2004, Todd Bennett and Jason Krause teamed up with Stephen Fan (Hong Kong) and Albert Liu(Hong Kong) to create TJSL R/C LTD in Hong Kong. Stephen Fan is the majority shareholder and boss of the company, while Albert is the second shareholder and created SYNERGY, a Hong Kong helicopter brand. Due to Steven's death in 2010, TJSL company was unable to pay its debts. As the largest creditor of TJSL, I undertook and paid all the debts of SYNERGY for TJST, and then took over the operation of SYNERGY! Prior to 2010, Stephen was TJSL's largest shareholder and the boss of its product, SYNERGY N9. After 2010, I was responsible for the development of all production molds, part of prototype design, prototype production, prototype testing, mass production, packaging carton production and so on. Helicopters and parts are also provided to the factory pilot. Matt just bought the Kit of various models from me without paying me any other fees! Matt was first hired by TJSL as the designer of SYNERGY. After Stephen's death, TJSL stopped paying him(5000dollars per month) and let Matt sell SYNERGY in the US.

In 2005, I met Stephen Fan and he wanted me to produce all the CNC parts on the N9, so I started doing business with TJSL to produce all the N9 CNC parts. In 2008, TJSL started the 50 nitro helicopter program. So Matt Botos, the designer hired by TJSL, came to our company to discuss the new design and production and introduce the SYNERGY N5 plan. In 2009, in addition to upgrading the N9, I also completed the prototype N5 and 1000 CNC parts, which were all delivered to TLSL in December of the same year. After the holiday on New Year's day 2010, I received the very sad news that Stephen was killed in a serious accident during a lightweight sports car race at the zhuhai international circuit. After the New Year, TJSL informed me to attend the debt meeting on TJSL in Hong Kong.

At this time, I went to Hong Kong as the largest creditor to participate in the TJSL debt meeting. TJSL's sole shareholders at the time (Todd and Jason had already left TJSL), Albert Liu said TJSL every month should pay high salary (the manager Mr Ye and Matt) and the rent, have no ability to repay debt owed, he also said he won't invest into TJSL, wish I could take over SYNERGY, finish the N5 of unfinished work, sales N5 helicopter, the sales revenue as pay my debts. TJSL will stop paying Matt as a designer and let him sell SYNERGY in US. With Roger Hamilton's sales in UK, the situation would not be too bad, so I agreed.Therefore, I paid the debt owed by TJSL to the injection molding factory and Mr. Zhou's debt, and officially released the N5 to the market. In June 2010, Albert said he was too busy to help me with SYNERGY business, and I started to take over all SYNERGY business operations.

Finally, I solemnly declare that SYNERGY, TG, Tronare the products of our company, I have the right to use any parts, there is no plagiarism, cloning problem!! If Matt does not stop his unfounded accusations against Yintech, TG and Tron, I will hire another designer and take back Matt's distribution right!! Thank you for your attention.
spending time, paying attention
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01-11-2020 03:51 PM  14 days ago
jbjones

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Interesting. Anyone have a quote of what Matt said that caused this response? I'm sort of out of the loop here. Hate to see a popular Heli brand having problems.J. B. Jones
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01-11-2020 04:40 PM  14 days ago
SoCal Scott

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Yes. Would have been helpful to have Matt’s statement. You can read the rest of the thread on the Synergy forum:

“I’m going to clear the air for everyone concerning the recent questions and speculation between Synergy, Yintech, Tron, and the TG520. When I first took over Synergy from Todd Bennett, I was in search of a high quality, small machine shop with high moral standards. I found a shop in China that used to make a small amount of parts for the N9 way back in 2006. I offered them the Synergy project with really good pricing (higher than any other China cnc shop) and they accepted. Shortly after our agreement, I helped him rename the company “Yintech” and even created the logo for them. A few years later after much success manufacturing my designs they moved into a new facility and bought many new cnc machines. Everything went well for another few years but around 2014 the market dropped by around 50%. Yintech over extended their business and was in search of additional business to make up for the decline. Without my permission, they used my 516 design to partner with an investor to make the TG520. I initially thought this was a clone but after investigating found that it was my own cnc shop that had betrayed me. Words were exchanged and we moved on. This brings us to the present Tron 5.5 situation where there are indeed some parts from my designs which I did not authorize and I will likely not receive any compensation. We are talking months of design time and over a year of testing for each model. Now you tell me, is this acceptable for a CNC shop to essentially sell your hard work to another customer? Over the years I’ve had numerous offers from many different CNC shops to manufacture Synergy parts at better pricing. I chose to stay with Yintech because I am a loyal person. I have not yet decided what to do about this situation but since the start of the debacle I’ve had three machines shops approach me asking for the work. I can tell you this, I am not happy and I am very motivated by anger. Ask yourself this question before buying anything in this industry....Do you really want to support a company with this low of moral standard in business ethics? Operating with low moral standards can never last.

Synergy 2020!!!”
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01-11-2020 07:03 PM  14 days ago
ICUR1-2

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What does 2020 have in store
Looks like the end of synergy
Unless Matt can prove he owns synergy and moves on to different manufacturer.
As for yintech they have produced quality synergy parts for years.
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01-11-2020 10:32 PM  14 days ago
SoCal Scott

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Well, by the sound of it, Synergy as a brand/model won’t cease to exist, but Matt’s distribution rights in the USA might if things aren’t patched up. I am curious if Matt owns any of the intellectual rights to any of the designs.
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01-12-2020 12:03 AM  14 days ago
Yooper42

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If he (Matt) does in fact own the intellectual property rights, etc, then how bout having a USA machine shop make his parts and kits? The fact that all the USA players have folded lies directly on US, the hobbyist, always wanting it cheaper and cheaper....
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01-12-2020 11:20 AM  13 days ago
dschertz

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This is reminds me of the Lego lawsuit against the Chinese copies only different. I say that because it sounds like Yin tech is going to end up with being able to copy things and being it's not here, it's going to take a lot of money and time no one has to try and stop it. He's here in the US and they are over in China. Best of luck to all parties involved.
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01-18-2020 12:19 AM  8 days ago
IYKIST

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So who is actually telling the whole truth, if I can recall some years back it was told that Matt cashed in his 401k to have the funds to buy Synergy as Jason and Todd weren’t willing to commit financially after Stephen died, if Matt is the distributor, designer and part owner of Synergy I think he should work it out with Yin or else we would be seeing synergy parts on every cloned helicopter.
The fact is there really isn’t any new design, the parts are just rearranged. Yin doesn’t have to sell the designs to any company, they can copy the designs from photos.
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01-18-2020 12:29 AM  8 days ago
jbjones

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It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Synergy has some nice looking machines, and a good loyal following. I know in B'Ham every year, there are a ton of Synergy models and pilots. It's worth a mention that Matt, his wife, and their pilots do a good job of supporting that event.

I work at a University and have learned over the years that the Chinese play by one rule; Theirs. I hope it works out well for Matt.
J. B. Jones
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01-18-2020 02:03 AM  8 days ago
raholek

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Synergy
I own a N7. Cool design and a good machine, but without Matt & Amy I would never have bought the heli. Pretty sure the design would have been like many other boutique helis created overseas and not sold well if not for Matt. I have watched China and Taiwan rip off intellectual properties for 20 yrs. We send manufacturing overseas to match prices here and they steal everyones hard work.

I truly hope this ends well for Matt and Synergy.
www.redstickrc.net ama#: 968515
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01-18-2020 05:26 AM  8 days ago
hyflyr

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I hope for the best for Matt and Amy. It is such a shame that the economics of this hobby created the need to manufacture overseas. I never believed that process would end well. Except for my first few Schluter helis, I kept my loyalties to MA, CY, & Synergy for the 20 yrs in the hobby. If the model didn't have ties to the US it wasn't in my fleet. I pray the improving US ecomony allows the hobby to recover.Scott
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01-18-2020 09:14 AM  8 days ago
wjvail

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Going back to my youth, I remember a time when Americans designed and then made things. We would carefully design something special and then carefully lock away the details of its design so it couldn't be copied and easily reproduced.

I distinctly remember when we discovered that it was cheaper to give all design data to the Chinese and teach them how to make our stuff. I remember thinking, with everything required to make our stuff, why do they need us? Why don't they just turn their machines on and sell our stuff as their own? Today, instead of carefully guarding our design work, we openly and freely email them a DFX file. Doesn't matter if it's a toy helicopters or full sized trucks.

Years have passed and we now seem surprised when items are produced that bare a resemblance to parts we designed. If, at the height of the cold war, the production of F-15 fighter had been farmed out to Russia, who would be to blame if we saw similar aircraft in the Russian fleet? Would it surprise anyone to learn the Russians were selling F-15s to Afghanistan? None of that happened because the specifics of the F-15 are locked in a vault. They are not openly shared. They were/are secrets.

If Align were to send every last design detail of their helicopters to Big Sky machining in Montana, and if Big Sky was faced with liquidation (as they were), is it possible they would consider producing "aftermarket" Align parts?

I don't know who is in the right in the Synergy/Yin squabble. But if Matt designed a helicopter and mailed every last detail to China, I can't say I'm surprised to learn he may have lost control of his product.

None of it seems to make good sense to me.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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01-18-2020 11:54 AM  7 days ago
dschertz

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There is more of the story on the other site and Facebook. Yin has conceded that he took intellectual property and developed the other helis involved and Matt had fired Yin as his manufacturer. At least that is the last I had seen.
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01-18-2020 12:23 PM  7 days ago
squirrel

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wjvail But if Matt designed a helicopter and mailed every last detail to China, I can't say I'm surprised to learn he may have lost control of his product.
That is pretty much the de facto standard in the usa and has been for many years.

Look at how many evade the fact the stuff is coming from a low cost country with a 7 to 1 monetary exchange rate and yet selling the product based upon USA pricing.

How about those plastic landing gear struts, one example. Highly doubt anyone in the USA or Germany is spending the money for a mold. Yet, the kit is priced as if its actually made in USA...
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01-20-2020 09:30 PM  5 days ago
Grimracer

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One.. Matt.. entered in to a CONTRACT.. in that contract it was specified whom the properties belonged to. That contact was broken.

The Chinese dont give one Sh^% about intellectual properties and that is why President Trump is STARTING to address it.

Grim
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01-20-2020 10:43 PM  5 days ago
squirrel

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Grimracer President Trump is STARTING to address it.
It takes WAY MORE than that to make it happen.

You can talk about it all you want, until folks stop buying the stuff its NOT going to change.
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01-20-2020 10:59 PM  5 days ago
wjvail

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Grimracer One.. Matt.. entered in to a CONTRACT.. in that contract it was specified whom the properties belonged to. That contact was broken.
A contract??? Maybe. I certainly don't know. There seems to be some serious disagreement.

What is being discussed is if Matt does have a contract - and what exactly that contract says. Yin's contention is that Matt was contracted as a designer and allowed to function as their US Distributor. Yin's position is that they inherited / bought controlling interest in Synergy some time in the mid 2000s after Stephen Fan's passing.

If Matt "bought" Synergy from Jason and Todd, there seems to be some disagreement about whether or not it was theirs to sell. Going back to post #1, Yin seems to suggest the majority owner was not Todd - never was.

I'll end as I began... I don't know who is right.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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01-21-2020 12:25 AM  5 days ago
wjvail

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squirrel You can talk about it all you want, until folks stop buying the stuff its NOT going to change.
Grimracer The Chinese dont give one Sh^% about intellectual properties and that is why President Trump is STARTING to address it.
I've begun to wonder.... Aren't we in a position to beat them at their own game? Who are we kidding? We, as Americans, don't make or do anything. If we would like to become producers of goods again, wouldn't it be in our interest to "steal" other people stuff? If I were to throw $500,000 at a machining center, wouldn't I be best served by producing copies of Asian products?

If I were to ask anything of our Federal Government it would be to level the playing field. Theoretically, if I were to setup a $500,000 production facility, how would I run it when competing with competitors with no OSHA, no child labor laws, no EPA, etc, etc, etc? My production facility would cost more to run than a similar shop elsewhere in the world. I can't tell other countries to change their work environment but I can ask that their products be billed as they enter the country to offset their neglect.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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01-21-2020 02:28 AM  5 days ago
squirrel

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wjvail If I were to ask anything of our Federal Government it would be to level the playing field.
Yes, let USD become devalued like the Yuan. At the present it is a 6.88 to 1 monetary advantage. Right know one our many products they copied is on aliexpress and sells for just a touch over our raw material cost and they are even offering free shipping to the USA.

If one would multiply their selling price by 6.88, the current exchange rate, my USA made stuff would be VERY profitable..and extremely competitive.
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01-21-2020 02:46 PM  4 days ago
wjvail

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squirrel Yes, let USD become devalued like the Yuan. At the present it is a 6.88 to 1 monetary advantage. Right know one our many products they copied is on aliexpress and sells for just a touch over our raw material cost and they are even offering free shipping to the USA.

If one would multiply their selling price by 6.88, the current exchange rate, my USA made stuff would be VERY profitable..and extremely competitive.
Certainly the Chinese are manipulating their currency so as to remain global sellers and not global buyers. They can't afford our goods and we can't afford to not buy theirs. In short, we buy their stuff and they buy their stuff. No one buys our stuff. The effect of decades of this situation is that we don't have any stuff (to sell).

I don't know if the exchange rate for the Yuan will ever be 1:1. I don't think it works like that. The exchange rate for the Japanese Yen 110:1 and the Myanmar Kyat is 1,500:1. The exchange rate is just a number. What is important is the relative buying power of a currency.

It is not politically wise to reduce the buying power of the dollar relative to the Asian currencies. The sort term effect of doing so is that the price of Asian goods goes up, and since everything Americans buy is Asian, Americans can't buy as much. Even though it might be good (great) for America, reducing the amount of stuff Californians can buy from Shenzhen is not something that you want to build your election campaign around. "Vote for me and I promises to make stuff more expensive!!!" Doesn't really have the ring of a rally cry does it. If the Yuan ever went to 3:1 Americans would only be able to buy 1/2 as much. I'm sorry, but we as Americans aren't that long sighted and selfless.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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