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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › tail wag in thunder tiger 550 with ikon 2 and DX9
12-29-2018 07:54 PM  10 months ago
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motorrc

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tail wag in thunder tiger 550 with ikon 2 and DX9
Well, its time to ask for help from people more intelligent than I. I am having persistent tag wag like the gain is too high but I've lowered to 5 (recommended starting spot is 45 for perspective) and still have it. Things I've done so far include installing a brand new Sprague bearing, inspecting the belt for damage, installing a brand new ikon 2 gyro, installing a brand new tail rotor assembly(tail case, new bearings, new shaft, new hub, new grips, etc) installed new sab carbon fiber 95mm blades, increased the head speed to 2100, installed a new pitch control push rod and made sure it operates silky smooth with no binding, installed about 5 different high end servos to make sure its not a servo problem. None of these things helped. This heli flew great until I crashed it. Its about 30 degrees here an I am wondering if the temp is playing a roll. I do let the heli sit outside for 30 minutes before I attempt to fly. The other clue is on the vibration tab in the diagnostics I am getting 80 and its should not be higher than 60 at 10K hertz which I believe is the frequency of the tail rotor. Is this vibration enough to cause the ikon to malfunction? I did everything I know how to get rid of this vibration and can't.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-29-2018 08:23 PM  10 months ago
Heli_Splatter

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Have you changed main shaft bearings? Might be time to take blades off and disconnect tail to find source of vibration.

Just a guess. Good luck.
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12-29-2018 08:40 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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yes, main shaft bearings have been changed. The vibration tab on the ikon allows you to pinpoint the source of vibration, ie, around 2K hz is main shaft, around 10k hz tail rotor, around 20k hz is motor. Since only vibration peak of any significance is about 10k, I don't believe main shaft or blades are the problem.if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-29-2018 09:03 PM  10 months ago
JuanRodriguez

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Making that drastic change and it not having an effect would lead me to believe that you are not really adjusting the gain as you believe you are .....Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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12-29-2018 09:13 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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In transmitter panel (? panel 5) in the wizard it does say 5 and this number does change in response to changes in the dx9. As far as flying, you are right, I would have expected a more dramatic change than I'm getting, but I think there is a change from 45 to 5 in terms for the amplitude of the wag ie, smaller amplitude at 5.if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-29-2018 10:16 PM  10 months ago
aerosmith

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Watching this.
I can't offer any suggestions because you've covered every base I can think of. I got my first iKonII a couple months ago & so far, so good. Trex 500L/ Spektrum DX7. I started with a tail gain number of 45 as suggested & It took a large amount of points to see/feel any difference. My problem was setting end points on my Talon 90. I elected to use the governor from the esc & finally got it working. Good luck on getting the wag resolved.
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12-30-2018 02:41 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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aerosmith I started with a tail gain number of 45 as suggested & It took a large amount of points to see/feel any difference.
What number for gain did you finally settle on?
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-30-2018 03:09 PM  10 months ago
Flyin for Jesus

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motorrc yes, main shaft bearings have been changed. The vibration tab on the ikon allows you to pinpoint the source of vibration, ie, around 2K hz is main shaft, around 10k hz tail rotor, around 20k hz is motor. Since only vibration peak of any significance is about 10k, I don't believe main shaft or blades are the problem.
Don't know the Ikon 2, but if it reads in Hz ( like my Skookum does ) Then the head is only 33Hz, Tail about 166Hz and Motor about 332Hz. Just pointing this out to make sure you're looking at the right component for the vibe.
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12-30-2018 03:33 PM  10 months ago
Pistol Pete

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Do you have a tail wag when in RATE mode?

Have you balanced tail blades with hub n grips as a unit?

No clue what belt you have but cold weather tends to make some of them keep a form ( small tail gear "bump" ) during long term storage.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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12-30-2018 04:22 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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Flyin for Jesus Don't know the Ikon 2, but if it reads in Hz ( like my Skookum does ) Then the head is only 33Hz, Tail about 166Hz and Motor about 332Hz. Just pointing this out to make sure you're looking at the right component for the vibe.
yes, you are right, I made a mistake, the vibration is measured in RPM not HZ.Thanks for pointing that out.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-30-2018 05:50 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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Pistol Pete Do you have a tail wag when in RATE mode?

Have you balanced tail blades with hub n grips as a unit?

No clue what belt you have but cold weather tends to make some of them keep a form ( small tail gear "bump" ) during long term storage
Haven't checked for wag in rate mode. How would determining if wag was in rate mode be helpful since I only fly in heading hold mode?

I used a du-bro spin balancer to try to balance the tail rotor with the hub on. If the blades at the tip are extended or retracted ever so slightly, ie lead or lag, it changes the balance. I don't run into this problem with main blades since if lead or lag is off by a fraction of a inch at the tip it converts to only a tiny fraction of a degree at the hub and has negligible effect on the balance. How do you balance your tail rotor blades?

As far as the belt, seems to be in good shape, no humps or bumps, has not been in long term storage.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-30-2018 08:29 PM  10 months ago
JuanRodriguez

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motorrc Haven't checked for wag in rate mode. How would determining if wag was in rate mode be helpful since I only fly in heading hold mode?
Because it would help you diagnose a "mechanical vs electronic" issue by eliminating one variable.....

If the wag goes away in rate mode then you know where to focus your attention......

It certainly wouldn't hurt anything to try it.....
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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12-30-2018 09:52 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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JuanRodriguez Because it would help you diagnose a "mechanical vs electronic" issue by eliminating one variable...
Yes, so if the wag went away in rate, that would imply an electronic issue. Thanks for explaining that.

Well, I turned off heading hold and wag still there.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-31-2018 12:56 AM  10 months ago
JuanRodriguez

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You've done just about everything under the sun.....

The only other thing you can do is to try different brand mounting pads from what you're using....... or, a different gyro brand altogether......

You might even want to try an alternate mounting location just for fun.....
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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12-31-2018 01:08 AM  10 months ago
ICUR1-2

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take the blades off and run it at less than full throttle to see if the tail rotor is binding. assuming everything is set up and not binding try the following

in the advance menu goto tail set up
( you need to activate banking to do this )
there are 2 gains to play with, a derivate and integral
set the integral to 15 30 50
leave the derivate alone for now

put the helicopter into a hover with bank 2 then switch up and down between banks to see which is better.

select the value of the bank that hovered best (10 30 50)
now repeat the first procedure with derivate gain 30 40 50

the numbers I posted are ball park but they will send in the right direction for making adjustments .

the tail gain set it to a switch 50 55 60% on a 500 and up and 30% and up for a 250 size


.
spending time, paying attention
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12-31-2018 03:24 AM  10 months ago
InvertedDude

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motorrc
What voltage is your setup?

Make sure your tail servo can handle voltage higher than 5.2V. If you have an older 4.8V tail servo...over volting will make it wag.

If you have a high-end HV tail servo check the HERTZ and Narrow Pulse.
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12-31-2018 01:59 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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I am running at 6V. I currently have an ace rc DS0606n servo on the tail which can be run at 4.8 or 6V. The information I have is the pulse width is 760 and frequency is 333 which is programed into the ikon.if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-31-2018 03:54 PM  10 months ago
Four Stroker

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Buy or borrow a real tail servo. Try lowering the rate from 333 Hz. Try less than 6 volts.
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12-31-2018 05:12 PM  10 months ago
motorrc

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I've tried futaba BLS251 at 6V-no changeif it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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12-31-2018 05:28 PM  10 months ago
InvertedDude

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motorrc
Okay,

I know sometimes it pays to recheck simple things.

Tail rod is it smooth or sticky?
Gyro flybarless tape solid mount none moving?
Does your helicopter have crazy vibes?
Have you done the reset again on your Ikon?

Do you have another flybarless gyro to test?
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › tail wag in thunder tiger 550 with ikon 2 and DX9
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