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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What made the hobby go bust
12-31-2018 02:52 AM  10 months ago
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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Exactly!
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12-31-2018 03:19 AM  10 months ago
InvertedDude

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USA

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My experience with FB vs FBL
I have both models. The FB is natural and nothing too complicated to understand.

FBL, this is a whole new breed of machines and technology, If it wasn't for Gringle and Shane, my Gaui NX7 would be sitting on the shelf unused. I don't care what anyone says, it is a new learning curve and you need someone with experience to pass the knowledge down. No instruction manual is going to walk you through what you need to be done!

FBL vs FB, they both have their own learning curve to experience.

These FBL manufacturers would be doing themselves a favor by hiring ME and Gringle to write the manual for anyone to learn how to set up an FBL helicopter!

I don't care how smart you are, it will come back and bite you in the A$$!

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12-31-2018 03:40 AM  10 months ago
banshee rider

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Phoenix AZ.

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GEEZ Louise

All you people whining about FBL ruining the hobby and complaining that there junk and not needed
need to learn how to really set up a FBL unit
and I mean learn how to adjust and make a heli fly the way you like it too not just enough to make the heli fly
but just like you do with a flybarred heli to your preference

Its just a different skill set
but once you learn how to make the adjustments the heli will fly in any manner you prefer

Or if you prefer to constantly tinker and want to try different combo's of settings you can do that also you will just be pushing buttons instead of changing paddles flybar lengths weights and ect ect
But you will get the same affect

I have two Freya's one with a FB and one with a FBL
and I can make the FBL fly just like the FB
simply by changing the dampners in the head and making some adjustments in the Futaba cgy unit

I personally like to fly and fly and fly
Less parts to replace and adjust after a crash means more time flying

I started when gyro's with motors in them was a newfangled unnecessary contraption about 33 years ago

I dont want to go back to a flybar nor a Futaba 153 BB gyro in the least

FBL hasnt hurt the hobby anymore than a spoon has made someone fat
ageing is manditory maturity is optional
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12-31-2018 04:12 AM  10 months ago
maxell44

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Canada

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Inspector Fuzz The FBL is a time consuming, costly, complex solution to a problem that never existed.
I read a thread somewhere that says having to have a FBL controller is a lot of hooey. Some people have flown just using a lot of D/R and Expo. Apparently, you are then really flying the Heli. Its akin to (standard steering).
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12-31-2018 04:41 AM  10 months ago
JLF92677

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Southern California

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I have been following this thread as well as others regarding FBL vs FB and can’t really figure out what the FBL fuss is about... I am not exactly a young whipper snapper, just the contrary. I have been into RC since 1965 if that tells you something... been flying helis since the mid 1990’s and love my FB helis. That said, I have several FBL as well and also love how they fly and the ease of setting it up. Perhaps the difference in my experience and that of others is that I fly Futaba and standardized on Futaba CGY750; it is a straight forward and easy setup, plus you can program it to make it feel to whatever your preference is. Frankly, you can set it up to feel like a FB heli. If you are having this amount of frustration with whatever FBL unit you are using, give Futaba FBL Gyro a try. Unfortunately, the CGY750 is discontinued and replaced by CGY760R which is a Gyro / Receiver hybrid, or perhaps you can find old inventory or a used CGY750. Happy New Year and go out and fly, fly, fly!!!
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12-31-2018 04:53 AM  10 months ago
gologo

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Sedalia, Mo USA

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banshee rider I personally like to fly and fly and fly
Less parts to replace and adjust after a crash means more time flying

I started when gyro's with motors in them was a newfangled unnecessary contraption about 33 years ago

I dont want to go back to a flybar nor a Futaba 153 BB gyro in the least

FBL hasnt hurt the hobby anymore than a spoon has made someone fat
Amen!

If the hobby is going 'bust' it isn't, or shouldn't be, about FB vs FBL.
I would agree definitely about smartphones/VR/gaming as putting a big hurt on a lot of things these days. I have never seen neighborhoods/parks/etc, so void of kids playing or just hanging out......OUTSIDE!
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12-31-2018 04:53 AM  10 months ago
Inspector Fuzz

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NLA

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Thanks for the advice. I just bought an ICON2. Their binding procedure is similar to the regular binding procedure for the DX9 and a Spectrum receiver.
I suspect I would have to switch over to Futaba transmitter to use the Futaba system.
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12-31-2018 05:28 AM  10 months ago
JLF92677

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Southern California

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Inspector Fuzz I suspect I would have to switch over to Futaba transmitter to use the Futaba system.
With regard to the CGY760R, I beleive you are right. But if you are not satisfied with what you have and is causing you this amount of frustration to program and system intergrate your FBL Gyro and lack of flying, you have to figure out what is the balance between flying or being grounded and frustrated because you can’t make your FBL unit work they way you want it...? Is it worth $500, $1000, $1500??? You can sure buy a new Futaba 14SG, 16SZ or 18SZ for that amount... it is all about choice and $$$.
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12-31-2018 05:53 AM  10 months ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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There are those that: Complain vs Get it done and go out have fun!

Which one are you?
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12-31-2018 06:04 AM  10 months ago
Inspector Fuzz

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NLA

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In this case, I'm complaining. The instructions are terrible and there is no "If your receiver won't bind then check......"

Honestly, at this point in my life it is not about money. I don't have a lot of time to waste on stuff that has poor direction/guidance. Like I said earlier, I bought an IKON2. I'll see how that works. If Futaba is the only option for helicopter flying these days then I'll make the switch.
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12-31-2018 11:30 AM  10 months ago
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

It is not as difficult as it gets.

The main problem is to mess with different hobbies at the same time...

For example...
I like computer.
I like to fly rc helicopter.
I like to watch movies.
I like to surf the internet.

I don't even think of having a transmitter to do all this jobs... Oh! No!

So, rc helicopter very far away of my computer... And so on...

/
Saludos cordiales,
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12-31-2018 01:26 PM  10 months ago
MartyH

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USA

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maxell44 I read a thread somewhere that says having to have a FBL controller is a lot of hooey. Some people have flown just using a lot of D/R and Expo. Apparently, you are then really flying the Heli. Its akin to (standard steering).
Yes. I am one of them. I've been flying a Pantera 50 with an RJX flybarless head on it with only a tail gyro. It's very sensitive like this but it can be done. I've decided to tame it down now with a controller.
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12-31-2018 02:33 PM  10 months ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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I guess it really doesn't matter much here any more but, this is what killed the hobby is thinking like this. Quoted from another heli site. This guy is not a MODELER, but wants to go to the heli dealership and pick up a heli and fly it TODAY!!! I am telling you it is not the HOBBY, it is the PEOPLE. I am also going to included all of those that have the acronym FB & FBL in their post also.(If you do not like change stick your head in the sand & stay away from Technology)

"I don't think this will ever happen, since it makes too much sense... BUT this has been rolling around in my walnut-size brain for a long time, after building something over a dozen electric helis...

I would like to see a "combo" package model, with motor/servos/ESC. Well, DUH. They already sell these, right? What I mean is, PLUG AND PLAY. What the heck am I talking about? well, NOT a BNF model. You still get to build it.

What I mean is as follows:

* ESC motor and the motor leads already the "perfect" lengths for the model WITH all bullets already professionally soldered on. And, you get to choose the ESC connectors you want for your favorite battery side connectors, since you LIKELY already have LIPOS on hand anyway...

* ESC mounting platform the correct size for "most" ESC's, and the motor plug-ins easily accessible. I like my TSA 700 a lot, but the motor/ESC
connections arrangement is all buried inaccessible inside the frames...

* servo wires THE CORRECT LENGTH FOR EACH ALREADY, with explicit routing instructions to reach the FBL. NO extensions, or 5 inches of servo wire hanging all over the place to bundle up. And DON'T tell me to mount the servos and route the wires INSIDE the frames before you can even assemble the side frames together (700X)... P.S. I have never, and will never, cut servo lengths shorter. Sure, some of you do, but what about a newbie trying to build his 1st kit?

* A proper length ESC throttle wire to easily reach the FBL location, and well-designed routing to get there. (If I have to figure out how to thread another throttle lead from the ESC to the FBL, in a Goblin for example, WITHOUT the battery tray mangling it, WITH an extension required, I'll scream...)

* servo arms already loosely installed WITH the balls mounted in the proper holes on the arms...

* all linkage rods already made up with the starting correct lengths...

* How about NOT hiding the stupid tail servo inside the frames where you can't hardly get to the servo arm, and in some models, you can't even get the thing OUT after install without a lot of trouble. (The Gaui X4ii looks like a good way of mounting the tail servo - Goblin 500/570 is ridiculous IMO).

Man I could go on and on (since I don't enjoy building...), but I realize I'm reaching the point of practically describing a "custom built" model, where half the tedious work is already done for you, depending on options selected. Oh well, it was a nice thought. My 2 cents only, and your mileage may vary."

When this hobby thrived, and I have been in it since I was 5 we would buy balsa and order plans... Now, I have been able to adapt to all of the changes that have occurred over the almost 60 years. And I can figure out how to program a FBL unit which some may not. The problem is the recent generations are to impatient for this hobby with the instant gratification movement. (AND the trophy crowd that cannot take defeat, you don't get a ribbon for crashing) I have turned into my father!!! OMG he had to use an EXTENSION. Over & out
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12-31-2018 02:40 PM  10 months ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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MartyH Yes. I am one of them. I've been flying a Pantera 50 with an RJX flybarless head on it with only a tail gyro. It's very sensitive like this but it can be done. I've decided to tame it down now with a controller.
Did the same with a swift 550 in 2008 . Soft dampners and short servo throws did it for me. But windy days didn't go so well.

A FBL controller is only a tail gyro for elevator & aileron

JUST that today they are fancy
spending time, paying attention
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12-31-2018 02:41 PM  10 months ago
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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"PLUG AND PLAY. "
I guess I just can't understand why someone would think like this.
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12-31-2018 03:14 PM  10 months ago
filtvet2

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Norway

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I had a good time flying until the FBL wave came. Really enjoyed the TT mini 325 and Trex 450 FB. FBL is too much hassle to setup and dont fly as I like.

So now I fly a drone and planks.
Thor
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12-31-2018 03:15 PM  10 months ago
Inspector Fuzz

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NLA

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Should I have started with a soldering iron and built the flybarless from a kit?
I built my first radio, a Heathkit back in 1982. My issue with the flybarless is not that I will have to do setup to make it fly. My issue is that just getting the piece of crap to turn on so that I can start programming has eluded me. Very limited instructions and a drawn out process just to get thing so that I can use it.
I'm trying a different manufacturer. Placed the order last night.
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12-31-2018 03:21 PM  10 months ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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Is your NEO for sale?
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12-31-2018 03:45 PM  10 months ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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There were some early scale flybarless helicopters that had three tail gyros - the kind with the motor and brass wheels.

"A FBL controller is only a tail gyro for elevator & aileron"
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12-31-2018 04:06 PM  10 months ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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Don’t wish for less problem .. Wish for more skills to solve it.

There will always be difficulties in life mixed with opportunities.

Regarding the situation about the FBL:

- Build the frame
- Mount appropriate ESC/BEC/RX
- Google your model for samples of component placement, brands & sizes
- Mount your Servos
- Mount your Motor
- now we have easier access
- keep in mind of all wiring route and possible interactions
- now complete your setup

Back than ... we can’t just snap it together. Had to file, trim, dermel, heat,bend, glue and etc.

If we want a clean setup, we need to do it ourselves and we have to have the required skills to do it unless we find someone good enough to do it for the price we are willing to pay.

Flying a big machine is a right of passage ... not an expectation.

We have spent the past 27 years learning, developing, perfecting the art of the craft. Recently we can share cuourtesy of the Internet. However, some are not ready to be a good student and learn while keeping their mouth shut.

It could be a wonderful or horrific time based on how we choose to deal with it. We can be as happy and enjoy the hobby as we make up our mind to be.

Complain & Expect less and do more:
- make a list of our problem
- spend 15 minutes a day working on it
- soon, we will have fixed our problem

However, do nothing ... than we only get what we got.

Good Luck everyone and Happy New Year!
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What made the hobby go bust
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