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11-15-2018 08:14 PM  12 months ago
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koppter

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Virginia

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rhetoric
Regarding your indignation at whoever is referring to Trump as Hitler: where were you during Obama's presidency when the same comments were made? Comparisons to the most despicable fascists is hardly new by either side. If you don't like the commentary, ignore it. Most of us - the overwhelming majority of voters are not extremists on either side. Most of you are extremists - convinced that unless your version of reality is adhered to, the country is doomed. It is entertaining to say the least. A friend of mine - who political views are opposite to my own summed it nicely the other day: "We survived Obama, we will survive Trump."
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11-19-2018 12:11 AM  12 months ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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The Previous 8 Years Were Many Times Difficult
I did not say some of the things that I hear now about the president. Agree or disagree, you do not have to be vulgar and racist. Now every white male Republican is a white supremacist. We are not. We want to control spending and we want secure borders. Don't put all the other baggage on us.
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11-19-2018 12:31 PM  12 months ago
conbones

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panama city beach FL

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we haven't survived obama yet we are still reeling from the massive influx of illegal aliens and debt he drove upRush 750, cc160hv, vbar silverline
Agile 550, HW120hv, vbar silverline
goblin 500, cc100, ikon
Devil380, cc75lite, minivbar
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11-19-2018 12:48 PM  12 months ago
chas1025

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TN

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I really wish more people had taken Economics and Political Science in college.

The first 18-24 months of an incoming president are in response to the policies of the past president. This means that the economic collapse that was encountered by President Obama was due to policies of President Bush. The early economic success of President Trump is due to President Obama's Policies. The only difference we have is the massive tax corporate tax cut passed will take away these gains in a very short period of time.

Also, the rate of illegal immigration was down during the time of President Obama. Now you cannot blame Asylum seekers on the actual President as this is due to extenuating economic and socio-political situations in the various countries beyond our boarders.

Lastly, a brief discussion on everyone being so excited about low unemployment rates. This is actually bad for a country. Low unemployment drives what is called wage pressure, or companies have to pay higher salaries to compete for workers. This in turn creates a situation where they must increase the price of their goods/services in order to cover the additional wages. This creates inflation. So if the unemployment rates remain low, inflation increases which creates a recession. The nation actually needs to have moderate unemployment numbers in order to control inflation.
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11-19-2018 01:45 PM  12 months ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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chas1025 The first 18-24 months of an incoming president are in response to the policies of the past president. This means that the economic collapse that was encountered by President Obama was due to policies of President Bush.
Actually... Had you read a little further, the economic collapse encountered by President Obama were due to the policies and lending practices put in place by President Clinton. That was followed by incompetency and neglect by Bush who passed it all on to Obama.

There is an understanding in politics that says that handing a mess to the next person is actually a weapon. Sending a well oiled an good running machine to the next guy only makes him look better. If you spend 96 months of your Presidency improving things and then passing it on to the next guy, he looks good.

Ronald Reagan was probably the last President that worked to make America better. The plan was to pass the improved country to G. H. W. Bush for another two terms. That would have left the Republican party looking like rock stars. That all came unhinged when the war hero HW Bush became a one and done President. The Republican party decided that Ross Perot wasn't going to be allowed to play in the 1992 election and the conservative vote was split, handing the election to Clinton. That left Bill Clinton to shine in the glory of the ground work started by Ronald.

By the time Clinton left office we had wildly revised home loan policies and NAFTA (among other things). The setting was set for the great recession that Obama inherited. Bush II could have altered the course but why would he do that? The changes that would have been required of him would been unpopular and would have only made him, and the Republican party, look worse and the fella to follow (Obama) look better.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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11-19-2018 11:51 PM  12 months ago
chas1025

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TN

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Vail, I am sorry to say, but you cannot skip the entire 8 year presidential term of President Bush and blame things on Clinton. The recession and economic problems were due to the policies of the Bush administration.

I realize everyone wants to blame everything on a Clinton, but it does not work that way. Facts are actually facts, not just things you make up to support what you want to believe.

GDP Growth from the beginning of Bush 43 until the end of his term was 1.7, Obama was 2.1. No matter how much you dislike President Obama, he inherited a collapsing economy and managed to keep it alive and eventually grow. The two lowest GDP in modern history were Bush 41 at 2.0 and Bush 43 at 1.7. This is since Eisenhower. President Clinton's GDP was 3.7. The only presidents since Eisenhower with higher GDP was Kennedy at 5.5 and Johnson at 5.2.

These are the actual facts.
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11-21-2018 12:24 AM  12 months ago
wjvail

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chas1025 Vail, I am sorry to say, but you cannot skip the entire 8 year presidential term of President Bush and blame things on Clinton. The recession and economic problems were due to the policies of the Bush administration.
First of all, I hardly think I "skipped" the Bush administration. I think I was fairly clear that the Bush II administration did little to reverse the impending recession put in place by the Clinton administration. At best the Bush administration passed some wide sweeping home-loan changes in the last few months of his administration. Additionally he passed on a trillion dollar banking bailout package to Obama. In effect he handed Obama a White House with three rooms on fire. Most of what Obama might have wanted to do was impossible. Crisis management defined most of Obama's first term.

But what I really wanted to talk about is the "event horizon" for humans. Many years ago, when I was in my teens, I read an article that stated humans were believed to be the only animals that correlated the act of having sex and reproduction. I don't remember the details of the study - only the conclusions. The conclusion suggested that the time span between cause and effect is too long for other animals to connect. While humans seem to be able to see that one causes the other, deer will never see the connection between the rut and calving.*

Our political system relies heavily on our own inability to span time and see cause and effect. In a system as large, complex and interconnected as our Domestic Production (or other social/economic issues), the event horizon for cause and effect is often decades. And it is clearly outside the capability of the average voter.

As an example... During his terms as President, Ronald Reagan harped on American's need to save more. He was instant that by putting more into saving, and thereby infusing the banking system with more capital, industry would grow and that, in-turn, would lead to prosperity for Americans. Additionally, 401Ks were offered to the largest mass of humanity to ever move through the American economy, baby-boomers. They were told they could save 10% in the American stock market without paying taxes during their peak earning years. He began his push for Voodoo economics in the early 80s.

Given the complexity of these goals it would be ridiculous to judge him by his first 100 days in office or even his 8 years as President. I would suggest that the effect of these changes might not be seen for 10 or 15 years. Since he was in office 8 years and Bush senior was in office 4, that would have landed the effects of "Voodoo economics" squarely in the middle of the Clinton administration. To suggest Bill Clinton was able to substantively raise GDP in 24 months is laughable.

While the event horizon for most humans spans 9 months, my impression is that it doesn't span nearly the time required to assess the cause and effect of Presidential actions.

-----------------------------
*While many humans seem to be able to connect the dots between having sex and the appearance of a child 9 months latter, a very sad number don't seem to be able to notice the correlation between having multiple children out of wedlock with no steady income, and the ensuing low standard of living.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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11-21-2018 01:50 AM  12 months ago
utahbob

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St. George Utah

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Nicely said!..I especially like that last paragraph..living in Utah..I ponder the logic of overpopulation regularly..all this going back in history and trying to make sense of all these complicated events makes me think of a cool line I heard in a movie recently.."Sicarrio"..the female fbi agent asks the hardened drug cartel fighter how the cartels work..he says "you're asking me how a watch works..let's just keep track of the time"..good flick!I do a great decending funnel!
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11-22-2018 03:12 PM  12 months ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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utahbob Nicely said!..I especially like that last paragraph..
Thanks Bob. I sometimes wonder if anyone reads longer post. I find some subjects are too complex to neatly fit in a tweet or CNN soundbite. I'm of the belief that just because an idea or subject doesn't comfortably fit in a text message, it shouldn't be addressed. Anyway, thanks.
utahbob "Sicarrio"..the female fbi agent asks the hardened drug cartel fighter how the cartels work..he says "you're asking me how a watch works..let's just keep track of the time
Thanks for the movie reference. I looked for it on Netflix but didn't see it. I'll search Amazon Prime or a Red Box.

I like the quote. While the world is moving much too fast to ponder the inner workings of a watch every time we need the time, it shouldn't prevent us from asking how, in principal, one works. Continued ignorance of "what's inside" will eventually lead to wrist devices full of Silly Putty and be no more effective at telling time than our Congress is at leading this country.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Bill
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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