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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Everyone gets old-try not to think old
10-25-2018 02:04 PM  20 days agoPost 1
chas1025

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TN

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As someone still barely in the younger age group of this research, I feel it truly represents what has happened to the voting demographics. Older adults seem to be much more susceptible to false statements and conspiracy theories presented in the election cycles. FB has given way to methods of confusing facts and conspiracy and older Americans seem to be the target. I just hope to continue to be open minded and not suffer this loss of critical thinking and judgement that seems to occur in some with natural aging.

The following is from Pew Research concerning the ability to discern between actual facts and opinions as relates to age groups. The 50 and over crowd are less likely to see the actual facts vs opions that support their thinking.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-from-opinions/

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10-25-2018 02:17 PM  20 days agoPost 2
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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I have a serious problem with this "study"... first off this is based on a survey of 5,035 people... hardly a true representation of the country as a whole, much less any particular region. Second, it was was conducted by the GfK Group in English and Spanish... why spanish? that should be an indicator of bias...

http://www.journalism.org/2018/06/1...on-methodology/

the methodology can be skewed to suit the bias of the researchers based on what materials and choice of survey questions they choose.

Last time I checked it was "research" centers like this that predicted TRUMP was to lose in 2016, even the pew research center tried to cover its a$$ on November 9th 2016 with this:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...sed-their-mark/

So if you read the study carefully you will then see why any such studies involving surveys are flawed:
One likely culprit is what pollsters refer to as nonresponse bias. This occurs when certain kinds of people systematically do not respond to surveys despite equal opportunity outreach to all parts of the electorate. We know that some groups – including the less educated voters who were a key demographic for Trump on Election Day – are consistently hard for pollsters to reach. It is possible that the frustration and anti-institutional feelings that drove the Trump campaign may also have aligned with an unwillingness to respond to polls.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
-Mark Twain

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-25-2018 04:39 PM  20 days agoPost 3
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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Well, I'm 55 and refuse to wear foil hats nor am I a 'prepper'. I have a real problem with millennials and those 'younger' people that think the older generation is full of crap.

I was raised to respect my elders, to listen to what they say as they have been there and done that, and learn from it. Time and experience is wisdom. Not social media.

I work with many 'younger' people, and consistently see the 'you can't tell me sh$t attitudes', and you know what? I'm ok with that. Couldn't give a cat's @ss what they think.

You want to know what is really sad? The younger generation doesn't know crap about our country's heritage or history. They are so concerned with their social media life's and crowds, and facts don't concern them. It will bite them in their @sses at some point in their life long quest for happiness.

Good luck to them all.

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10-25-2018 05:14 PM  20 days agoPost 4
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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RM3
I have a serious problem with this "study"... first off this is based on a survey of 5,035 people... hardly a true representation of the country as a whole, much less any particular region.
I think the pew research was trying to represent the nation rather than a particular region of the US. So, the fact that this doesn't represent a specific region is a good thing not a bad thing. Also, the sample size is inline pew research survey methodology.
RM3
Second, it was was conducted by the GfK Group in English and Spanish... why spanish? that should be an indicator of bias...
http://www.journalism.org/2018/06/1...on-methodology/
the methodology can be skewed to suit the bias of the researchers based on what materials and choice of survey questions they choose.
I don't think the Pew Research Center would have violated, bent, or ignored any random sampling methodologies to try to skew the data. Granted, I don't know why Spanish was included, but if you look at the political affiliations in the sample, both Democrats and Republicans are represented almost equally with the margins of error to be within acceptable tolerances.
RM3
Last time I checked it was "research" centers like this that predicted TRUMP was to lose in 2016, even the pew research center tried to cover its a$$ on November 9th 2016 with this:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...sed-their-mark/

So if you read the study carefully you will then see why any such studies involving surveys are flawed:
One likely culprit is what pollsters refer to as nonresponse bias. This occurs when certain kinds of people systematically do not respond to surveys despite equal opportunity outreach to all parts of the electorate. We know that some groups – including the less educated voters who were a key demographic for Trump on Election Day – are consistently hard for pollsters to reach. It is possible that the frustration and anti-institutional feelings that drove the Trump campaign may also have aligned with an unwillingness to respond to polls.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
-Mark Twain
Things like data sampling, non-response and data weighing are all attributes of pew research that predate Trump. These are known effects in statistical analysis. I wouldn't call it, statisticians covering their a$$es. It is simply understanding the pitfalls. No different than understanding a normal bell distribution curve.

Having said that, I don't think it's wise to think that pew research should be ignored or that it lacks any value. These studies are VERY helpful, and we used them all the time. Similar to the salting of your food example. You know your food needs salt. You put some, stir it and take a sample to determine your next action. If you are satisfied with the sample, you proceed to eat it. That still doesn't mean that you may end up with a portion that got no salt or a salty clump. Yet, you don't abandon that practice of sampling.

You don't say, I'll eat 2/3 of my meal to get a good sample or worse case, I'll eat it all to determine if it needed salt or not.

So, take these findings in the context of how statistical analysis is approached (understanding the pro's and con's).

I'm more interested in 2 things: The conclusion of the analysis AND what actions we need to take (if any).

In this case, ALL of us (young and old) need to get better at detecting facts vs. opinion period.

We also need better tools for detecting trends and not get caught up in the old fallacy of saying.. "We are older therefore we are better" .

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10-25-2018 05:25 PM  20 days agoPost 5
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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^^ Yeah, ok.

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10-25-2018 05:29 PM  20 days agoPost 6
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Old guys that I know can barely find their teeth in the morning.

The sample size is related to the margin of error. Yes, meaningful results can be obtained with small samples.

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10-25-2018 05:54 PM  20 days agoPost 7
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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sjgusmc21
Well, I'm 55 and refuse to wear foil hats nor am I a 'prepper'. I have a real problem with millennials and those 'younger' people that think the older generation is full of crap.

I was raised to respect my elders, to listen to what they say as they have been there and done that, and learn from it. Time and experience is wisdom. Not social media.

I work with many 'younger' people, and consistently see the 'you can't tell me sh$t attitudes', and you know what? I'm ok with that. Couldn't give a cat's @ss what they think.

You want to know what is really sad? The younger generation doesn't know crap about our country's heritage or history. They are so concerned with their social media life's and crowds, and facts don't concern them. It will bite them in their @sses at some point in their life long quest for happiness.

Good luck to them all.
Generations are simply responding to their environment. No generation is inherently 'better' or 'worse' than the next. If you were born later and considered a millennial, you too would behave like a millennial (statistically speaking).

You are correct that younger generations don't know or care about history, but that's because they are younger. Similar to your generation when you were younger. Statistically speaking, most of them had other priorities than being interested in history or politics.

But not everything is repetitive, social media wasn't as prominent as it is today. Instant gratification wasn't as common as it is today. You can't blame younger generations for having instant gratification as part their menu option. That's the way things are today. We have created this. What we need to do is HELP them understand that NOT everything has this feature of instant gratification.

But the mentality of my generation is better than yours will not help achieve this goal as we'll always be putting ourselves above them because things are different.
  • Your parents' generation probably were lucky to have a TV in the house and thought your generation was spoiled for having multiple TV's.
  • Your grandparents' generation probably only had one radio, and thought your parent's generation was spoiled for having a TV.
  • Your great grandparents's generation probably didn't have a radio, and considered your grandparents spoiled for having one radio.
    Your great-great grandparents' generation probably didn't have electricity and considered their kids generation spoiled for having electricity + radio.
Anyway, you get the point.

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10-25-2018 06:22 PM  20 days agoPost 8
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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Ok, so I am going to feed the troll a little here...

But the mentality of my generation is better than yours will not help achieve this goal as we'll always be putting ourselves above them because things are different.

All generations have strengths and weakness's. That's how it is.

Great story. Looking good for their generation....if this is any indication.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mum-than...-121641759.html

Have a great day.

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10-25-2018 06:59 PM  20 days agoPost 9
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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sjgusmc21
Ok, so I am going to feed the troll a little here...

But the mentality of my generation is better than yours will not help achieve this goal as we'll always be putting ourselves above them because things are different.

All generations have strengths and weakness's. That's how it is.

Great story. Looking good for their generation....if this is any indication.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mum-than...-121641759.html

Have a great day.
Wow! Talk about a non-sequitur.
Here we are talking about statistics, overall trends and how one generation isn't inherently good or bad but rather a product of their environment, then you put a link to this as if it's supposed to debunk something?

Something is not making sense here.

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10-25-2018 07:46 PM  20 days agoPost 10
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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this is why I think the sample is flawed:
5,000 people who actually bothered to participate, and part of any research project involving surveys or interviews requires that they finish the survey/interview. So 5000.... for 50 states is 100 per state (less if you include PR or DC)... do you think 100 people are a fair representation of a state like Texas, New York, California???... take for example Texas, it has 254 counties, the most of any other state... thats like saying you got a handle on what one of the 254 counties thinking is by looking at 1 random person. How do they know they got an even distribution across the nation, across all educational range and culture? they dont, nor did they according to the methodology.

its a BS study based on the sample size and the extreme variability of people, culture and mode of thought from region to region. end of story

Now this attitude that old people are basically idiots that cling to bias and are swayed by media depends on the whether or not you go to Family reunions to meet women. but I can safely say having worked with old Vets, millennials in Austin texas, and high school/college students... and on average the old vets know more about the world around them, have a better logical mind based on experience and have insight that the younger generations, despite their affinity to technology have... older generations that are still viable contributing member's to the workforce read more, listen better, and were more involved in their communities and more aware of current events and used this knowledge to make choices.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-25-2018 07:57 PM  20 days agoPost 11
banshee rider

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Phoenix AZ.

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I think a lot of the talk about this generation or a previous generation
is a lot of BS

Us old curmudgeons paint the newer generations with too broad of a brush
We only see the idiots on TV or in the news that are doing something stupid/radical to get attention

Your not seeing my kids on there doing this stupid crap and they are part of this generation

My 2 kids have jobs they been supporting themselves for some time now
and they are both home owners

How many of the younger generation are WE NOT seeing doing this stupid crap ? There are a whole lot more "KIDS" you dont see acting/being stupid

This survey is skewered toward the younger left wingers to prove the poll makers opinion nothing else

The "older" people surveyed have seen more and done more and know that a lot of the "FACTS" of this survey have a lot of "CAVEATS" in these "FACTUAL" statements

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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10-25-2018 08:09 PM  20 days agoPost 12
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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My Parents believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny. Thankfully i showed up with my youthfully wise mind to correct them. Saved them from a lot of embarassment.

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10-25-2018 08:16 PM  20 days agoPost 13
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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RM3
its a BS study based on the sample size and the extreme variability of people, culture and mode of thought from region to region. end of story
Again, nobody is denying the issues with using samples and applying projections to a wider population. But let's continue to see if there is a better approach.
RM3
Now this attitude that old people are basically idiots that cling to bias and are swayed by media depends on the whether or not you go to Family reunions to meet women. but I can safely say having worked with old Vets, millennials in Austin texas, and high school/college students... and on average the old vets know more about the world around them, have a better logical mind based on experience and have insight that the younger generations, despite their affinity to technology have... older generations that are still viable contributing member's to the workforce read more, listen better, and were more involved in their communities and more aware of current events and used this knowledge to make choices.
Ok. I'm not denying that your experiences regarding old generations vs. millennials are false. I believe you. But here's the problem. Those are the observations of 1 person (you). Do you think it's better to rely on the observations of 1 person or 10, Or perhaps 5000 to find trends in the larger population?

Granted, your own experiences are more convincing to you than any study, but your experience may not give you the adequate representation of what's actually true at a larger scale because you represent 1 sample. This is why we have developed techniques to find information about wide populations rather than surveying everyone.

I just can't reconcile your position with saying a study is flawed due to inadequate sample size while proposing that the observations of 1 sample gives you a better indication of the overall trends of an entire population.

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10-25-2018 08:38 PM  20 days agoPost 14
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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Something is not making sense here.

And that would be you.

Done posting on this subject. Waste of 0's and 1's.

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10-25-2018 09:16 PM  20 days agoPost 15
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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sjgusmc21
Something is not making sense here.

And that would be you.

Done posting on this subject. Waste of 0's and 1's.
Your choice.

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10-25-2018 09:55 PM  20 days agoPost 16
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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spaceman spiff
My Parents believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny.
They also banned lead paint shorty after that ...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-26-2018 01:35 AM  20 days agoPost 17
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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“So 5000.... for 50 states is 1000 per state (less if you include PR or DC)... do you think 1000 people are a fair representation of a state like Texas, New York, California???.”

Care to comment on the math here? 5,000/50=100 not 1,000. Did you even take a statistics class(math)? Doubling the sample size will not increase the accuracy. There is an entire science about polling. Yes we can predict without polling the whole herd.

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10-26-2018 04:58 AM  20 days agoPost 18
chas1025

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TN

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While this is an old study from 2012, the study by Fairleigh Dickinson University showed that Fox news watchers were the least informed out of all participants.

https://www.businessinsider.com/stu...s-at-all-2012-5

Now another interesting fact is that Fox news demographic is the highest of all news mediums and stands at around 66 years old.

I feel the picture painted by the stats show us that the people outside of the 18-49 demographic do seem to be more susceptible to the conspiracy theories and opinion pieces and this is why facts are ignored as they are outside of a perceived realm of belief.

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10-26-2018 05:53 AM  20 days agoPost 19
koppter

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Virginia

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the sample size is probably large enough to be representative IF it was selected at random across a broad demographic spectrum. Absent an explanation of how the study sample was chosen, the results are pretty meaningless. you can interview 7 people, get 6 answers you want, and then make the claim that out of people surveyed, over 80% believed this or that....regardless of your political ideology don't fall prey to studies that are just veiled political influence.

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10-26-2018 12:46 PM  19 days agoPost 20
chas1025

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TN

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The Pew Research organization started out as a conservative leaning organization. I think in general they have moved toward trying to be an unbiased organization.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pew-research/

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