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10-17-2018 01:01 AM  9 months ago
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Rockin Bird

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St Gabriel, La

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Question /?
Is it true that a rc helicopter nitro or electric can fly without the paddles on the flybar?
That sweet smell of "Nitro"
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10-17-2018 01:11 AM  9 months ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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I am placing odds on that it is not true.
I do not have the facts to back it up but the way the FB teeters I have my money riding NO!
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10-17-2018 03:22 AM  9 months ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Yes they can if you use weights.spending time, paying attention
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10-17-2018 06:27 PM  9 months ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Without paddles, I believe the helicopter's cyclic will causes some pretty wild cyclic reactions and the helicopter will be so unstable it would be uncontrollable.

The flybar paddles basically add stability and control (the weight of the paddle adds stability and the airfoil shapes adds control).
Gyroscopic forces working on the paddle's weight will tend to keep the flybar horizontal and that helps the heli "upright".
And by twisting the flybar (via the swashplate), the paddle's airfoil shape provides lift that influence the angle of the flybar and that changes the cyclic blade angle.

With no paddles, I believe the flybar will not have enough mass to return to horizontal and will flop wildly throughout the rotation and cause the cyclic to be too wild to fly.

But, I agree - adding weights will add enough mass to keep the flybar horizontal and it will be very, very stable - too stable to really "fly".
It would basically go straight up and straight down and you would have no cyclic control (unless the weights had an airfoil shape - like a paddle has)

The old-school trick was to use flybar weights to add stability for beginner pilots.
These could be slid in and out on the flybar to both adjust flybar balance and the head's agility / response.
Heavy weights at the outer ends of the flybar was the default starting point for a new pilot - it was so stable, they couldn't get into too much trouble.
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!
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10-17-2018 08:39 PM  9 months ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Ticked off
You're over thinking the use of paddles.
The flybar is the stabilizer , not the paddles.
The reason for the paddles is to interact with the wind. To gain stability on windy days.

In my early days I would sometimes land with a sideways paddle, it didn't cause a crash.

In fact you could accidentally fly with blades put on backwards.

Ahh the early days
spending time, paying attention
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10-18-2018 05:40 AM  9 months ago
MDSCUSTOMS

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North Wales, U.K.

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I think Ticedoff8 clearly forgot the classic Helis that have a flybar but only have tip weights on the ends - Those being the Iconic Huey and of course the Bell 47G. Unless you intend making one of these birds, I can't really understand why you would want to remove the flybar paddles.

It's easier to go the whole hog and get rid of the flybar completely. A flybarred head can easily be converted, so long as you connect the linkages up properly, it'll all work fine. (I know I've tried it)

Mark
I'm only here coz I'm not all there !!
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10-18-2018 05:28 PM  9 months ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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MDSCUSTOMS
I think Ticedoff8 clearly forgot the classic Helis that have a flybar but only have tip weights on the ends - Those being the Iconic Huey and of course the Bell 47G. Unless you intend making one of these birds, I can't really understand why you would want to remove the flybar paddles.
I think what may have been forgotten is that our model helicopters use "Bell / Hiller" mixing on the flybar equipped heads.
http://www.rcheliwiki.com/Bell-Hiller_mixer

The Bell UH-1 head used... wait for it...
Bell mixing.

In case you didn't click on that link, here is the text of the definition:
The Bell-Hiller mixer is a linkage connecting the flybar, swashplate and the main blade grip. It is a combination of technologies designed to help stabilize and control the main rotor. Without some sort of stabilizing influence, the main rotor is very hard to control in any wind or in forward flight.

The Bell control system, invented by Arthur M. Young, and used on the original full-size Bell helicopters, consists essentially of a weighted flybar without any paddles (the stabilizer bar). Cyclic pitch inputs are applied to the main blades (causing the rotor disk to tilt), but they are applied, in effect, relative to the stabilizer bar. Subsequently, the stabilizer bar will begin to follow the tilt of the mast effected by the main blades, and the process repeats. This leads to extremely stable, but very slow continuous cyclic response. The damping to control how fast the stabilizer bar follows the main mast can be extremely critical.

In the Hiller control system, named by it's inventor Stanley Hiller Jr. as the Rotor-Matic, main blade cyclic pitch is controlled indirectly by the flybar. Cyclic pitch inputs control the cyclic pitch of the flybar paddles; the flybar would then tilt into a new plane, and the main rotor would follow. This retains much of the stability of the Bell control system, and continuous cyclic pitch control is better, but it loses the initial instant control response that the Bell system has, as cyclic pitch is always mediated by the flybar.

The Bell-Hiller control system combines the best of both these systems. By allowing cyclic pitch inputs directly through to the main blades, we keep the instant response of the Bell system, while the controllable flybar keeps the stability and continuous response of the Hiller system.
The paddles ARE the weights in a Bell-Hiller flybar system.
The paddles are also the mechanize that changes the angle of the flybar - which in turn changes the cyclic pitch angle
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!
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10-18-2018 06:00 PM  9 months ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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ticedoff8
The paddles ARE the weights in a Bell-Hiller flybar system.
The paddles are also the mechanize that changes the angle of the flybar - which in turn changes the cyclic pitch angle
It's a simple question and the answer was yes it will fly with weights instead of paddles.

spending time, paying attention
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10-18-2018 06:50 PM  9 months ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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The original question was:
Is it true that a rc helicopter nitro or electric can fly without the paddles on the flybar?
The answer (as I said) is no.
For a number of reasons, the head would be unstable and the helicopter would be uncontrollable.
It may not even get off the ground before it turned into a "chicken dance".

The thread morphed into something else dealing with "can you fly with weights instead of paddles".

I will restate my opinion:
It would get off the ground, but you could not maneuver horizontally (no cyclic control).
So there is no control to compensate for the tailrotor thrust (in a typical model heli, the tailrotor anti-torque thrust causes the heli to drift to the left - you need to add right cyclic to "hover" ) and no way to compensate for any wind drifting.

Takeoffs are optional. Landing is mandatory.
Without cyclic, there is no landing - just crashing.
In my book, without a controlled "landing", there is no "flying".
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!
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10-18-2018 08:23 PM  9 months ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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And that's why this website is dying

spending time, paying attention
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10-19-2018 01:23 PM  9 months ago
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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ICUR1-2
And that's why this website is dying

All forums have similar conversations to this one, does that mean that all those forums are dying too?
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