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T-REX 700 › 14s rated Align Motor for Trex 700
10-04-2018 01:43 AM  72 days agoPost 1
NQNA

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USA

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Does anyone know of or use an Align motor (850mx) on a 14s setup? Looking for a little more power and was wondering if this is possible and if gearing changes are required.

Thanks

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10-04-2018 12:34 PM  71 days agoPost 2
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

12s to 14s... 16% more power...
Useless I presume...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-04-2018 05:37 PM  71 days agoPost 3
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Fundamentally, there is no "extra power" running a 490kv motor on 14S.
It will spin faster, but there will be no "extra power".

If you decided to simply swap in a 14S pack one day and try it, most likely the 1st thing you will notice is that the ESC catches on fire.
It's rated at 12S and the extra "2S" puts it past it's rated input.

But, if the ESC does not catch fire right away, once the motor spins up, the headspeed may be so high that something in the head comes loose (like a blade - think "javelin". The Trex 700 head is kind of notorious for having the feathering shaft bolts break under load.)
You would have to change the gear ratio to get the headspeed lower while the motor is spinning faster.

If you really wanted to try it, you need an ESC rated for 14S and a motor that has a kv rating around 420kv or 410kv.
The lower kv means you won't have to change the gear ratio and the 14S rated ESC means the helicopter should not burst into flames.
And, you need several 7S packs and a charger rated to charge two (or more) 7S packs in parallel.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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10-04-2018 07:58 PM  71 days agoPost 4
knightofcarnage

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chicago

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I Ask Align about a new motor that can do 14S few times. The main reason I want it higher voltage you pull less amps for the same WAttage. So the system is nicer on your batts , less heat. I believe you can get a custom motor built from Scorpion for 14S. They have built an 16S before for heligraphix.

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10-05-2018 01:09 AM  71 days agoPost 5
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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KDE has a 14s motor.

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10-05-2018 01:11 AM  71 days agoPost 6
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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10-05-2018 09:38 PM  70 days agoPost 7
NQNA

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USA

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With 14s you will have more grunt which is why I’m interested in it. Knight you hit it right on the head. I also fly my Trex 500 on 8s and there is amazing more power/grunt. No drop in head speed during heavy maneuvering. Lots of fun!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

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10-06-2018 01:49 AM  70 days agoPost 8
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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If it’s a 700 and we are still able to bog it, it’s us! Stick Heavy like we are cross country ski-ing!

An Align 700MX is 4000W = 5.364 mechanical HP. 14S is just enabling our collective mismanagement.

Now if we can do what we need to do on 12S, than 14S would yield a cooler and efficient setup [assuming if we choose the correct 14S battery wieght and taking into account for ESC/etc weight]

This maybe not what we want to hear, however it’s something we need to understand, otherwise ... 16S will be your consideration in the near future.

BTW
A Trex 500 is not a 700 and vs versa. Some concepts don’t carry over.

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10-06-2018 06:52 AM  70 days agoPost 9
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Torque X RPM = power. So, if you increase voltage at any given motor KV, there by increasing motor RPM then you increase potential power. However, if you control that increased RPM with the ESC gov, than you get no increase in power because the motor RPM stays the same. To take advantage of higher voltage (higher motor RPM) you have to put in a higher gear ratio. The highest gear ratio offered on the TR 700 is 10.18 (11T pinon) if I'm not mistaken. So if you run 14S, nominal 51.8V, on a 490KV motor you end up with 25,382 motor RPM divided by 10.18 GR, your head speed W/O any headroom would be 2493 RPM...and if you govern it back to 2100 HS, you'd have roughly 15% headroom. That's acceptable, but somewhat inefficient. Now, if you stay with 12S, you get a motor speed of 21,756. At 10.18 gear ratio your HS will be 2137 W/O any headroom. So, say you run the HS @ 2000 you'd get about 6% headroom, much more eff. My personal opinion is you'd be better served overall if you use an 11T pinion on 12S @ 2000 HS. Most people use a 12 or 13T pinion which drops the motor RPM and therefore power, so you have to have a high torque motor to make up for it the lost motor RPM (or a lot higher HS). Bottom line Align designed their gear ratio and motor KV to fit 12S, and they knew what they were doing. I think the reason your seeing no power loss at the end of your 500 flight is because by increasing battery voltage without changing HS or GR you are automatically increasing headroom, so the motor doesn't see the bad peak voltage drops it did on lower voltage. Sorry for the long post but it's hard to explain this stuff without it...

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10-06-2018 07:48 PM  69 days agoPost 10
NQNA

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USA

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Band

You are getting what I’m talking about. I have always run my 450s on 4s and then 6s before most even thought about it.

https://rc.runryder.com/t581798p1/

Consistent power and head room for the entire flight. That’s why I was asking if anyone had done anything on this.

I don’t know what pinion gear I’m running now, but I will check it out.

Thanks

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10-31-2018 12:45 PM  44 days agoPost 11
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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knightofcarnage
The main reason I want it higher voltage you pull less amps for the same WAttage. So the system is nicer on your batts , less heat.
Going to run the same capacity AND higher voltage are you?!

Remember you will be using lower capacity packs to keep the weight the same so the packs won't be able to handle as much load.

Also there must be another issue if an 850MX isn't powerful enough in a 700, a motor designed not that long ago for the 800! Maybe your packs are just getting old? Insufficient power connectors or poor soldering? An 850MX in a 700 should have biblical power!!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-31-2018 03:50 PM  44 days agoPost 12
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Band1086
I think the reason your seeing no power loss at the end of your 500 flight is because by increasing battery voltage without changing HS or GR you are automatically increasing headroom, so the motor doesn't see the bad peak voltage drops it did on lower voltage.
Yup.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-31-2018 03:58 PM  44 days agoPost 13
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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NQNA
Does anyone know of or use an Align motor (850mx) on a 14s setup? Looking for a little more power and was wondering if this is possible and if gearing changes are required.
Going back to the original question, yes the 850MX will work on 14s but not efficiently in a stock 700. The ESC would need to be HUGE and obviously 14s capable which would cost $$$$! The motor and ESC would also run hotter and would also probably kill those expensive 7s packs! It's just not worth it.

Buy some decent new 6s packs and some 6 or 8mm connectors properly soldered if you want a boost in power.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-31-2018 05:33 PM  44 days agoPost 14
NQNA

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USA

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Richard.. thanks for your suggestions. I do have tha 200 HobbyWing esc so it will handle the 14s. The limiting factor will probably be a pinion gear.

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10-31-2018 05:49 PM  44 days agoPost 15
NQNA

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USA

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If I run stock gearing it should have good headroom. I run a governed head speed.

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11-01-2018 12:08 PM  43 days agoPost 16
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Sure, it would work, but you'd want to run as high a head speed as possible, maybe 2200-2300 but you'd still have around 35% head room for the governor so the ESC would be working pretty hard. It would definitely give you a consistent head speed throughout but you are going to be VERY tempted to use all that power and things are going to heat up pretty quick and flight times will be short.

Personally, if it were me, and I appreciate we are all different, I would run the stock 700X on 10s! Hear me out, I personally like an ungoverned head speed or one will only slight head room (10-15%). I prefer the predictable feel (more like a nitro), they are easier to get low to the ground with and be more precise (less jumpy). It is more efficient (longer flights, cooler packs). A 700X on 10s will still run between 2000 and 2150 at 100% throttle which is plenty even for hard 3D. On 10s you could run 5s 6000mAh packs, with the added efficiency of running 100% throttle, slightly lower head speed AND the extra 1000mAh you would see a 30% increase in flight time (roughly)!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-01-2018 02:15 PM  43 days agoPost 17
Band1086

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Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Richardmid1
you'd want to run as high a head speed as possible, maybe 2200-2300 but you'd still have around 35% head room for the governor
Richard, would you mind explaining how you came up with those numbers? I can't get that even with a 14T pinion (8:1 GR) The numbers I get are if you run 14S, nominal 51.8V, on a 490KV motor you end up with 25,382 motor RPM divided by 10.18 GR (11T pinion), your head speed W/O any headroom would be 2493 RPM...and if you govern it back to 2100 HS, you'd have roughly 15% headroom. You would have to get an adjustable motor mount to go with a smaller pinion. KDE stopped making their's, but you can still find them used as I just got one recently here on RR.

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11-01-2018 02:35 PM  43 days agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Stock ratio is 8.46, on 14s the average head speed would be roughly 3000 at 100%.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-01-2018 03:04 PM  43 days agoPost 19
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Richardmid1
I appreciate your logic of reducing cell count to achieve a more efficient system.
Changing KV and gear ratio is much more costly for the same effect.

I have followed your advice and have seen for myself flight times increase.

I run a normal old school headspeed on all my models 500,550,600n ,my electrics get 6:00 min with 35-40% remaining.
If I get aggressive it drops to 20% remaining.

spending time, paying attention

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11-01-2018 03:27 PM  43 days agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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ICUR1-2
my electrics get 6:00 min with 35-40% remaining.
If I get aggressive it drops to 20% remaining.
Get yourself one of those programmable low voltage alarms that plug into the balance port on the packs. They're pretty loud. Or do what I do and set a minimum low voltage cut off to 3.4v cell, it comes down at around 20% remaining providing you don't keep flying. If you use Castle ESC's just set them to soft cut off where they just reduce the rpm when the voltage threshold is reached.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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