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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › So this is what it has come to...
09-28-2018 04:30 PM  25 days agoPost 21
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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Why are we acting as if this is new? C'mon... just look at the scrutiny around presidential candidates. Political groups will dig any data as long it benefits them by discrediting the opposition. Let's not pretend we care about the process because I haven't seen ANYONE in this forum pushing for the truth. The majority of the posts here revolve around political affiliations.

i.e. If it's an attack to my party of choice, the reaction is.."I'm appalled.. the system is broken.. unbelievable lack of civility "
If it's an attack to the opposing party, the reaction is.."Hell Yeah!!... If you don't like the system- change it, tired of political correctness, we're bold and in your face"

and round and round we go..

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09-28-2018 04:59 PM  25 days agoPost 22
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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All on the Record
I don't see another choice. No more expunging records for juvenile offenders. If it is true, it stays on your record for life. Just because you killed someone when you were nine years old. The truth should not be hidden. How can you allege something happened 35 years ago? How can you defend yourself from these accusations? This world is getting crazier and crazier. I don't know who to believe, but he is admirable for standing tall against all comers. He cannot be bullied. He cannot be pushed around. Might make a damn fine supreme court judge.

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09-28-2018 05:43 PM  25 days agoPost 23
sjgusmc21

rrApprentice

San Antonio, Texas

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Why are we acting as if this is new? C'mon... just look at the scrutiny around presidential candidates.
On this scale, it is new. As unfortunate as it is.

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09-28-2018 06:47 PM  25 days agoPost 24
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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Heli_Splatter
.....This world is getting crazier and crazier. I don't know who to believe, but he is admirable for standing tall against all comers. He cannot be bullied. He cannot be pushed around. Might make a damn fine supreme court judge.
No issues with having an opinion. However, I don't give him credit for simply going through this (as painful as this may have been for him).

Here's why. I have heard the same line of thinking from the left with similar conclusion when Hillary Clinton was deposed.

but she is admirable for standing tall against all comers. She cannot be bullied. She cannot be pushed around. Might make a damn fine president.

I didn't give her any credit for showing up then, so I don't give Kavanaugh any brownie points for showing up now. In my opinion, we should push for evidence and push out emotions that may sway us one way or the other.

Here's a typical left wing meme, and tell me if that grants any merit.

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09-28-2018 06:51 PM  25 days agoPost 25
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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tekparasite
Here's a typical left wing meme, and tell me if that grants any merit.
yes however that picture paints a very clear picture... Hillary KNEW it was a dog and pony show, she knew she was guilty as all hell but also knew there was nothing that anyone in government could do to her... Kavanaugh on the other hand has a clear record... and has a heart, shows emotion under distress... unlike the cold reptile like behavior of the latter.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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09-28-2018 07:47 PM  25 days agoPost 26
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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RM3
tekparasite
Here's a typical left wing meme, and tell me if that grants any merit.
yes however that picture paints a very clear picture... Hillary KNEW it was a dog and pony show, she knew she was guilty as all hell but also knew there was nothing that anyone in government could do to her... Kavanaugh on the other hand has a clear record... and has a heart, shows emotion under distress... unlike the cold reptile like behavior of the latter.
(reptile reference).

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be so emotionally tied to a person. These emotions prevents people from thinking clearly and perhaps turn a blind eye when we shouldn't.

What's wrong with holding judgement?
-Don't dismiss the accuser.
-Don't assign guilt to the accused.

However, point out that the timing makes it looks like politics it's the driving force rather than a concern for the accuser. Can left wingers at least visualize this?
Point out that there is a method for handling this. Press charges. If it's too late, then I'm sorry, but the system is based on Innocent until Proven Guilty. The rest is personal bias.

But saying.. Kavanaugh has a heart and Clinton is a cold reptile doesn't bring this objectivity to the table as funny as I find the reptile reference.

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09-28-2018 07:55 PM  25 days agoPost 27
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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'Cold, reptile behavior'. Man, I am liking that comparison!

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09-28-2018 08:37 PM  25 days agoPost 28
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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the timing is key... and we all know that everything in life is about timing.

when the democratic senators say "its not about delaying..." then proceed to ask for a delay... what is it then...
I for one do not believe Dr. Ford, either about being raped (she was not) nor attacked... not because of what she said... but because the evidence and her stories simply do not hold water, no one will corroborate her stories, NO ONE, not even those she said would... they simply do not at any level.
If she wanted to go after whom she believes 100% to be her attacker (Bret) she would have done it at every single opportunity years ago... after therapy, after confronting friends... nothing was stopping her then. Back when Bret was a young attorney, back when he first ran for judge, or at any time thereafter when he was advancing his career. Back then the only thing she had to gain was justice if this event did actually happen, no money, no book deal, no go fund me $$$, no TV, no fame, no attention.

but why now? simple. because she is being compensated one way or another... a book deal is coming GUARANTEED. go fund me contributions... already up to nearly a million $$$. She had nothing to lose and everything to gain and with no corroborating evidence other than her word... She now has plenty of money to set her up nicely for the rest of her life in hiding... Bret on the overhand, if not put on the supreme court... his life is over.

If we allow that level of belief to support any such accusations going forward... then anyone can walk in and say they saw a UFO, it landed, big foot stepped out and was part of the team that shot Kennedy... and they too would have to be believed beyond all reasonable doubt based on those standards... all on the sole grounds of because they said so.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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09-28-2018 09:59 PM  25 days agoPost 29
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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So the wack jobs got their wish and they are delaying the vote for one week....just swell. Let's see what kind of BS they drum up until then...mass murder, genocide, rapist, who knows.

What a f&&&&&&g load of crap. OMG I can't stand liberals....wasn't like this before....now I am.

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09-28-2018 11:02 PM  25 days agoPost 30
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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RM3
the timing is key... and we all know that everything in life is about timing.

when the democratic senators say "its not about delaying..." then proceed to ask for a delay... what is it then...
Of course most democrats are looking at this delay as strategic. And you are right, timing is everything. Do you really think Trump cared about the group of women claiming being abused by Bill Clinton when he brought them prior to the 2016 Debates? Let's be honest here.
So, again. Let's not pretend Republicans are above what the democrats are doing now.

Where was the cry from Republicans when they delayed the Supreme Court nomination process when Scalia died? Again. similar political tactics but they are perceived so differently based on political lines.
RM3
I for one do not believe Dr. Ford, either about being raped (she was not) nor attacked... not because of what she said... but because the evidence and her stories simply do not hold water, no one will corroborate her stories, NO ONE, not even those she said would... they simply do not at any level.
Let's categorize this as personal opinion. Honestly, this hasn't been properly investigated to know.
RM3
If she wanted to go after whom she believes 100% to be her attacker (Bret) she would have done it at every single opportunity years ago... after therapy, after confronting friends... nothing was stopping her then. Back when Bret was a young attorney, back when he first ran for judge, or at any time thereafter when he was advancing his career. Back then the only thing she had to gain was justice if this event did actually happen, no money, no book deal, no go fund me $$$, no TV, no fame, no attention.
but why now? simple. because she is being compensated one way or another... a book deal is coming GUARANTEED. go fund me contributions... already up to nearly a million $$$. She had nothing to lose and everything to gain and with no corroborating evidence other than her word... She now has plenty of money to set her up nicely for the rest of her life in hiding... Bret on the overhand, if not put on the supreme court... his life is over.
Sure. There could be a book deal with possibility for $
Sure. She could have come out ANYTIME.
That is very plausible.

There are counters to your points. But that's not important as the counters are also possibilities. The important thing is: can we agree that this has not been thoroughly looked at?
You are making a lot of assertions already based on the hate for the woman and support for Bret.
RM3
If we allow that level of belief to support any such accusations going forward... then anyone can walk in and say they saw a UFO, it landed, big foot stepped out and was part of the team that shot Kennedy... and they too would have to be believed beyond all reasonable doubt based on those standards... all on the sole grounds of because they said so.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. In this case, she better come up with good evidence. Otherwise, Bret is not guilty of the claims. It's as simple as that.

Actually, people that are making up their minds right now are part of the problem.

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09-29-2018 07:23 PM  24 days agoPost 31
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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tekparasite
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
...
Actually, people that are making up their minds right now are part of the problem.
People that have made up their minds that Bret is innocent or that Ford is wrong are not the problem.... they have simply made up their minds based on evidence presented that does not support her claims, in fact the same evidence she provided disproves those very extraordinary claims she has made. Not only concerning the event in question but her character itself is tainted due to the fact she lied about her issues with travel.

given typical law standards, none of what she said is creditable based on evidence she provided. saying "he attacked me 36 years ago" (BTW there was no sexual contact, no grouping, no mouth... not even a dry hump) doesn't stand up in a court of law without supporting evidence. and she has zero supporting evidence. In fact is there is more evidence to support she is mistaken about the event and the attackers identity.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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09-29-2018 07:50 PM  24 days agoPost 32
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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RM3
People that have made up their minds that Bret is innocent or that Ford is wrong are not the problem.... they have simply made up their minds based on evidence presented that does not support her claims
has she pressed charges? Has there been a criminal investigation? has this gone through trial?

hmmmm.. I don't think so.

Unless this happens, it's just a credibility contest and a delay tactic.

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09-29-2018 08:08 PM  24 days agoPost 33
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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tekparasite
has she pressed charges? Has there been a criminal investigation? has this gone through trial?
My wife keeps asking the same questions (as well as I). What will this all look like the day after he is confirmed? 6 months from now will Kavanaugh be in the cell next to Bill Cosby for his alleged egregious behavior?

I wonder, would it be unreasonable for Kavanaugh to pursue slander and libel charges? I don't suppose he ever would but still, you can't accuse someone so publicly of something as damaging as he's been accused and not expect the question. What he is accused of may have happened nearly 40 years ago and is virtually impossible to prove. Defamation charges would be the results of actions last week and might be as simple as tracing payments and proving motive.

It's all a friggen joke.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-01-2018 02:14 PM  22 days agoPost 34
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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wjvail
What he is accused of may have happened nearly 40 years ago and is virtually impossible to prove. Defamation charges would be the results of actions last week and might be as simple as tracing payments and proving motive.
agreed 100%

they need to make an example of Dr. Ford.... I feel sorry for her, I do, she seems like an idiot that got used here. but we need to start somewhere.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-01-2018 03:28 PM  22 days agoPost 35
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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That would be a most excellent way to start the week off....

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10-01-2018 04:45 PM  22 days agoPost 36
tekparasite

rrNovice

Houston, Texas

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wjvail
tekparasite
has she pressed charges? Has there been a criminal investigation? has this gone through trial?
My wife keeps asking the same questions (as well as I).
I just don't see why we don't rely on the system we currently have in place instead of rushing to declaring winners and losers.

This reminds me of the time when everybody was suing everybody. Yes. There are some folks who seek making a living out of lawsuits. At the same time , there are some folks who use lawsuits to intimidate and take advantage of other people (ahem). A good tool when used properly, but we have to watch out for abuse. In this case, not every sexual allegation is true and not every alleged aggressor is innocent.

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10-01-2018 04:49 PM  22 days agoPost 37
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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THIS is why you can't negotiate with a rattle snake, I mean Democrat/Liberal. This was their intent all along. Thank you FLAKE for this crap.

Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee used last week’s hearing over the accusations of sexual assault against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh to push a unified message: the FBI must investigate the allegations.

“If you’re very confident of your position, and you appear to be, why aren’t you also asking the FBI to investigate these claims?” California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat on the committee, pressed Kavanaugh during Thursday’s tense hearing. The next day, at GOP Sen. Jeff Flake's urging, President Trump ordered the FBI to open such a "supplemental" background investigation.

But now, many Democrats are arguing that the probe is not enough, prompting accusations from Republicans that they're already moving the goalposts.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders wrote in a weekend letter that the FBI shouldn’t just probe the accusations – but should also conduct an investigation into whether Kavanaugh was honest during his hearing. He called for investigating whether Kavanaugh committed perjury, "given the very serious fact that lying to Congress is a federal crime."

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10-01-2018 06:00 PM  22 days agoPost 38
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Sometimes you need to make decisions without all the facts. Often you never have all the facts. This is a delaying tactic. More time is not going to change how people vote.

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10-01-2018 06:36 PM  22 days agoPost 39
tekparasite

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Houston, Texas

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Heli_Splatter
Sometimes you need to make decisions without all the facts. Often you never have all the facts. This is a delaying tactic. More time is not going to change how people vote.
Sure.. More times than not a decision is made without knowing everything there is to know. And yes, this is a delay tactic. I also agree that more time is NOT going to change how people vote.

But, the democrats are not interested in changing the republican vote (at least not within this time frame).

The democrats are after a full withdrawal from Brett. Then the next nominee NOT to be considered until after the mid-terms when they hope to have more of a voice in the matter with control of the senate.

I remind you this delay tactic is the same thing Mitch McConnell and the Reps used, and it worked. Let's just accept that fact.

The mid-terms are going to have a huge effect because if the democrats win the senate, you'll see a different kind of supreme court candidate AND Trump will have a hard time getting anything passed.

This would be similar to when Obama had a Republican dominated senate. If this in fact happens, the question is: how are you going to see this grid-lock?

In the past, that grid-lock was considered patriotic and a win for separation of powers (IF YOU WERE A REPUBLICAN). It was also considered a broken system and hostile (IF YOU WERE A DEMOCRAT).

Let's keep our eyes and ears open because if that scenario plays out, you'll soon hear the rhetoric fit a reversal of roles. And the first one making those comments will be our sitting president.

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10-02-2018 05:02 PM  21 days agoPost 40
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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I can't seem to remember the Republicans publicly slandering a supreme court nomination and his family to advance their political agenda. I do remember Obama was in a position to appoint a Justice in the final few months of his Presidency. A congress, democratically elected by the people of the United States, used the parliamentary tools available to delay confirmation.

Your not suggesting these are similar situations are you?

We are agree in that what is going on today is simply a delay and confuse tactic. It is age old. They have floated out an accusation and asked Kavanaugh to prove it didn't happen. As I've written about in the past, you can't prove a negative. There will be no way to prove without a doubt that what has been proposed, that is, the "assault" of a girl 30+ years ago at a high school party, didn't happen. Just like the Russian collusion supposition, there is no way to prove it didn't happen. Most definitive outcome would be "there is no evidence to support the claim...". Of course that is hardly reassuring for those that want to believe.

This Kavanaught "claim" is simply another Russel's teapot.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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