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09-16-2018 08:13 PM  25 months ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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Utahbob,are you running the OS in the main tank with no header?
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09-17-2018 11:47 AM  25 months ago
utahbob

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St. George Utah

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Yes..I have been running my 700n and 600 without header tanks with the bubbleless clunk for years..they run great! My 55Hz non-pumped runs better than any heli engine I've had.I do a great decending funnel!
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09-17-2018 01:13 PM  25 months ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I too have found this with the foam or felt type fuel 'magnets'. Yes they can empty your tank fully and keep your engine running but they will cause micro bubbles in the fuel line as soon as the filter isn't completely submerged and the engine will run leaner. The problem is much worse with 3D flying. Bubble-less clunk and a header tank is the way to go, it's much more consistant.60% of the time, it works every time!
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09-17-2018 02:52 PM  25 months ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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Yep I thought that, but according to some,wants the tank is pressurized there should be no bubbles, I guess you wont hear the engine run slighty lean when its rolling about but the engine will know it.
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09-17-2018 05:42 PM  25 months ago
Andy from Sandy

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UK

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I used an OMI fuel magnet and never had any issues at all. One thing to be sure I did was fill the tank after each flight to expel gas from the tank but also to keep the foam wet. A guy at my club told me it is what I should do so I did it.

I have ran the tank completely dry and the only indication was the very last second when the engine was just about to stop it sped up.

The OMI magnet doesn't float on the top of the fuel and doesn't need extra weight to make it sink either.

If I were getting bubbles in the fuel supply I would of expected to have a stuttering engine but that never happened.
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09-17-2018 06:10 PM  25 months ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Andy from Sandy I used an OMI fuel magnet and never had any issues at all. One thing to be sure I did was fill the tank after each flight to expel gas from the tank but also to keep the foam wet. A guy at my club told me it is what I should do so I did it.
The OMI fuel magnet is a curious product.

I have heard other say they've never had a problem with OMI fuel magnets too many times to doubt they work. Too many guys have said they've never had a problem to question some are having great success with them. Conversely, others have reported repeated, continuing problems.

I suppose both could be correct. I personally have damaged several engines when an OMI fuel magnet failed spectacularly. I also don't doubt others have never had a problem. Curious. Interesting there could be such polar experiences.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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09-17-2018 09:13 PM  25 months ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Many of the nightmares with the fuel magnet have arisen from either failure to keep the foam element emersed in fuel or, worse, use with muffler pressurized fuel systems where post-flight the tank was not immediately refilled to purge exhaust gases.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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09-18-2018 12:58 AM  25 months ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Dr.Ben Many of the nightmares with the fuel magnet have arisen from either failure to keep the foam element emersed in fuel or, worse, use with muffler pressurized fuel systems where post-flight the tank was not immediately refilled to purge exhaust gases.
It seems that while poor maintenance practices with a fuel magnet lead to a greater failure rates, good maintenance practices don't guarantee success.

For the last 15 years I have refueled imminently after a flight. Most of my helicopters are DRS engines - no exhaust gasses needed. My personal experience with OMI Fuel Magnets has been catastrophic. Oddly enough I can't deny many report they've never had a problem.

I wonder if the failure rate of Fuel Magnets has something to do with their treatment prior to the modeler receiving it.?.? While the Fuel Magnets that disintegrated on me were new and installed imminently, I do have older Fuel Magnets that are failing in the OEM packaging. Granted, these are old and I can't expect them to be in good condition. Still, they look a lot like the new fuel magnets I've had fail while in service. I wonder if a fuel Magnet doesn't need to be bought new and soaked in fuel immediately or failure is likely.?.? I wonder if the fuel magnets that failed on me hadn't been sitting on the shelf for a year prior to me installing them.

I'm just thinking outloud trying to reconcile how some people love these things and why others hate 'em.

"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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09-18-2018 01:21 AM  25 months ago
jbjones

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Columbus, Mississippi

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wjvail I do have older Fuel Magnets that are failing in the OEM packaging.
Wow! Good data-points, Bill, and everyone else as well. Thanks for sharing. I don't have any experience with these, so I can't add any data, but this is certainly a good thread. Thanks to the contributors.
J. B. Jones
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09-18-2018 01:46 AM  25 months ago
utahbob

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St. George Utah

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I also followed the recommendations of refueling immediately after flying and keeping the fuel magnet wet..two disintigrations were enough to put my bubbeless clunks back in..my flying buddy had the same experience..we run Magnum fuel and some have said it could be the fuel; I don't know but having something in the system that can fall apart seems like asking for trouble.I do a great decending funnel!
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09-18-2018 02:22 AM  25 months ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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I Also have a NIP that looks just like the one pictured above, and I had 2 disintegrate in the tank after about 8 years. I have one in perfect shape sitting in a bottle of fuel from a crashed 600, but I needed 2. I went with the SAB.

Keep in mind Styrofoam is a very delicate substance and in the normal atmosphere doesn't age well. It is UV sensitive and is possibly susceptible to material differences in batches or lots. The manufacture doesn't know what the origin is throughout the years of production either. There are too many variables in a product, such as this that can explain the variances in life span.

Run what you feel comfortable with. I chose SAB.

Also consider this the system cannot be tested with a fuel pump. The engine empties the 16oz tank over a 10 minute period. Unless you simulate this time period you are wasting your effort. It is also possible to vaporize the fuel into creating bubbles which are not AIR by drawing a vacuum on it. The vacuum or reduced pressure is what makes the fuel flow. Reducing the pressure to low too fast causes it to flash off creating vapor that looks like air bubbles.
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09-18-2018 12:15 PM  25 months ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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Im gonna try both this weekend, the Sab and the OS without the header tank, but in theory when the OS bubbless clunk is out of the fuel, been flung about surely it will suck air, it will only prevent air when its submerged in fuel.
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09-18-2018 01:57 PM  25 months ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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OS bubble-less has the advantage of being heavy so it remains in the fuel. My experience with fuel magnets was with the original MOAS which was aluminium and too light and was told it needed a shorter clunk line to dangle roughly in the center of the tank because it didn't need full submersion to pick up fuel. Sure it worked ok and I ran it for a while but it wasn't till I switched back to a standard clunk and header tank that I realised the MOAS had been holding the engine back and I was always fiddling with the needles. With a standard clunk and header my needles were way leaner but engine was cooler and ran so much sweeter.60% of the time, it works every time!
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09-18-2018 02:45 PM  25 months ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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No not mine, do a nose dive with half a tank the clunk is out the fuel, Utahbob are you running a short line on your OS bubbless?
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09-18-2018 02:55 PM  25 months ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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datidun do a nose dive with half a tank the clunk is out the fuel
You have very good eye sight!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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09-18-2018 03:06 PM  25 months ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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I wonder if slight leaning during hard maneuvering isn't a good thing. As I said, don't use a header tank much any more and have an OS bubbleless clunk in all my models. I haven't noticed any leaning. But I also tend to run my model on the slightly rich side. If there was any leaning during some combination of maneuvers, that might be a positive.

I’m just not see the kind of problems we are talking about here. If the clunk isn't submerged for an instant I suppose there is a possibility there could be an air-bubble sent to the engine. But with 10+ psi of fuel pressure, it never really effects the engine. With the size and sintered nature of the OS Clunk, along with the wetting and capillary action of fuel, even if the clunk is out of the fuel for a moment, it is still not sending air-bubbles to the carby.

Vibration and fuel foaming will cause great problems. I wonder if we aren't trying header tanks and fuel magnets to mask another problem.
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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09-18-2018 05:18 PM  25 months ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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I have also added a bubbless fuel filter, to cancel any bubbles, have you the tubing around half way or near the end of the tank?
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09-19-2018 12:47 AM  25 months ago
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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I have flip flopped between the OS and the MOAS the last 10 years. Right now I have the MOAS installed in both and it works well. I think the biggest factor when setting up is the line inside the tank. I have had brands that collapse with the OS and brands that are way too stiff for the lighter foam options. Here is another relatively new option if you are looking for something to try. https://helilids.com/Synergy-MaxFlo...MFC_p_1066.htmlTeam Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!
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09-19-2018 12:54 AM  25 months ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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Honestly that looks just like the SAB items down to the fuel line. I think that line swells and is very flexible which is an positive attribute. I soaked my line for 24 hours before fitting it to the tank.
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09-19-2018 01:27 AM  25 months ago
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Honestly that looks just like the SAB items down to the fuel line.
I did a quick google search, I was curious. The SAB looks to be brass, the Synergy stainless. And while I have not used one yet I have 2 of the Synergy style in hand and the internal metal piece is a different design from what the SAB stock photo shows. Also it looks like the SAB has a replaceable filter cartridge? I wont say one is better than another, but they are not the same. Just something you can try if you are unhappy with what your using. Its nice to see manufacturers introducing new nitro products again, even if it is just a clunk Now we just need nitro prices to get back in line
Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!
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