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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › 90,120 140 swash
09-27-2018 05:00 PM  75 days agoPost 61
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Thanks Colin. I don't fly anymore but still like to learn everything I can about the electronics and mechanics of model helicopters. I thought you had some new terms I had not heard of befor, good one.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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09-27-2018 05:49 PM  75 days agoPost 62
CBell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia, Canada

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The mechanical side of the hobby has always been a huge part of modeling for me. Glad to see you're still on here! I'm guilty of not doing much flying as of late myself. I had a minor setback this season, but hope to be back at it full swing next year. Cheers!

_____________
Align
Thunder Power
OS Engines
Castle Creations
Futaba

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09-27-2018 09:10 PM  75 days agoPost 63
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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wjvail
I think we established there is no mixing of flight controls. They begin as 3 channels and come out as one output with 3 distinct properties. I pretty clearly stated that back in post 26, if not earlier. Again, flight controls aren't mixed.

All that is really being debated it the systematic of what has been traditionally called a "mechanical mixer" or mCCPM.

Say we have a black box the size of a bread box. To the left of the box are three inputs controlled by three levers labeled 1, 2 and 3. To the right of the box is a single output with three qualities - say, chocolate chip cookie dough that can be varied in the sweetness, amount of chips and the amount it will rise when baked. Lever one will always control the sweetness. Likewise lever 2 an 3 will control the chips and baking soda respectively.

What would you like to call the black box? Please don't say you call it nothing again. That doesn't advance the discussion. If you are the shop foreman for a cookie dough factory and responsible for the black box, how would you tell someone to go service the "_______" box? How would describe the purpose of the box in daily conversion?
Are you shi**ing me? That's one very good reason that this conversation has degraded to the point of a circus. "I think we established there is no mixing of flight controls. " Really?

Whether it is mechanical mixing or program mixing in a transmitter the same rules apply. Current radio technology provides two types of mixing; compensation and bi-directional, neither of which is present on a mechanical collective pitch heli. Compensation and also point mixing result in a Master channel and a Slave channel, any changes to the master channel will appear in the slave output. Using that as the basis for what is being mixed precludes the mechanical pitch scheme on a Raptor, X-Cell, Heim or similar from being considered a mechanical mix system because the three servos involved are independent of each other.

A bi-directional mix system has no master and no slave, each of the channels specified in a bi-directional mixer may affect the other. In effect, each channel has the properties of a master and a slave. In the mechanical collective pitch system that is not happening either BECAUSE THERE ARE THREE SEPARATE FUNCTIONS AND THEY DON'T INTERACT AS MASTER, SLAVE OR BI-DIRECTIONAL.

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09-27-2018 09:11 PM  75 days agoPost 64
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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CBell
Here's a picture I stole from somewhere else on the internet. One of these "things" controls the V-tail on an airplane, the other controls the swashplate on an older X-cell. Can you tell me which one belongs to which aircraft? If not, are they identical?

Non-sequitur.

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09-27-2018 09:40 PM  75 days agoPost 65
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Now I've grow weary. Not all of us are listening. I will have to bow out.

"Well, nothing bad can happen now."

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10-05-2018 03:55 PM  67 days agoPost 66
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Yep no mixing, 2 servos, 2 pitch operations (aileron and collective).

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-08-2018 01:04 PM  64 days agoPost 67
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

This weekend, I was doing a setup H4X on a robbe futura helicopter.

This configuration means that you need a rotor phasing 45 degrees.

That is why, according to swashplate mechanism, you will need an special configuration on main rotor.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-08-2018 07:03 PM  64 days agoPost 68
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Rojoalfa
/
/

This weekend, I was doing a setup H4X on a robbe futura helicopter.

This configuration means that you need a rotor phasing 45 degrees.

That is why, according to swashplate mechanism, you will need an special configuration on main rotor.

/
Does the model use a flybar?

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10-09-2018 02:22 AM  64 days agoPost 69
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

That robbe futura is flybarred.
Swashplate is H4X so, it produces a 45 degree counterclockwise phasing.

That is why Main rotor is 45 degree phasing on the washout set.

With a conventional rotor with flybar and washout at 0 degree is imposible to setup this helicopter.

Helicopter would be drifting 45 degree to the left in flight forward.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-09-2018 05:43 AM  63 days agoPost 70
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I am quite familiar with the System 88. I have 3 Futura's, a Magic II and a Conquest here in the shop so it's not a mystery as to how it works. There is no special setup required if everything is intact and you are using the mechanics as intended. If you want to use CCPM on it that's possible too. No special mixing is required.

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10-09-2018 02:08 PM  63 days agoPost 71
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

No special changes while you keep original rotor.

Original rotor for H4X is 45 degree phasing.

We were discussing about swashplates that are independent of rotor configuration.

That is not true.
Special swashplates require special main rotor.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-09-2018 03:57 PM  63 days agoPost 72
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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The difference in System 88 isn't the rotor head. Phasing is rotated by the washout unit.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › 90,120 140 swash
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