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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Where is the AMA?
08-03-2018 12:35 AM  78 days agoPost 61
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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jbjones
This is the correct, sane, and reasonable answer. Otherwise, applying Heli_Splatter's argument, every public park/landmark/monument would be privately owned and fenced off with "no trespassing" signs.
Amen to that !!
Heli_Splatter
Follow the Money
I don't know where people get the idea that the first 400 feet of airspace should belong to hobbyists. It should belong to the highest bidder. PERIOD. If money can be made off that part of the flight spectrum, so be it. If the hobbyist has to have a transponder on their aircraft, then so be it. The airspace is to be shared with commercial getting priority. That is the way it has always been. Money talks and s**t walks.

It seems as if in this hobby anyone is making a buck, everyone else tries to tear them to pieces.
Lot's of BS in that statement...... better start walking !

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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08-03-2018 01:23 AM  78 days agoPost 62
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Highest bidder? well with that statement youve put a price on our freedom in favor of business and declared yourself against the hobbyist... and an enemy of everything the AMA once stood for.

Way to go high speed.

wait till the day someone bills you for the air you breathe and cuts you off for your failure to pay...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-03-2018 04:29 AM  78 days agoPost 63
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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ErichF
Terry,

Yes, that is our company. I chose not to mention or link it so as not to rile "he who must be obeyed" regarding commercial links As for transparency, anyone that's been around here awhile with stake in the game knows I've been in the UAV biz for a long time. Hell, it's in my profile, I think. It's only the past three years or so that my work has gone more commercial rather than DOD.

Honestly, we are against the ULC for the same reason as any hobbyist...our customers need that airspace just as much, and in more varied locations. Commercial work doesn't just exist out in the desert or at neat little fields. Amazon and the like want to take it for THEMSELVES, exclusive use airspace for the stupid delivery scam.

You're right, it's not the RC hobbyist. It's the DRONE hobbyist that has continually given ammo to the FED for restricting all small aerial activities, hence my Youtube reference. Casey Neistat is a serial offender, and makes a million bucks on his channel doing retarded things in stupid places with drones.

Erich
Erich,

Now we're starting to get somewhere. Thank you. I don't think that posting the link qualifies as a marketing post in this case.

The same sort of rep mentality can't work here anymore. Back in the day as most of us remember some of us that were reps got chastised for being reps and paid the price by being labeled as less than truthful by from rep status, no more of that. This is a fight for the hobby.

Indeed, Niestat and the plethora of reviewers, instigators, thrill seekers and YT whores that are constantly trying to add subs and monetize their channel are some of the very reasons that the situation is dire. If you want to monetize something look at the multi millions of dollars in instruction and experience that has been put into RR and other sites with little in return to the folks that generated it and all we get out of this is a swift kick between the azz cheeks and we're outta here.
Heli_Splatter
Follow the Money
I don't know where people get the idea that the first 400 feet of airspace should belong to hobbyists. It should belong to the highest bidder. PERIOD. If money can be made off that part of the flight spectrum, so be it. If the hobbyist has to have a transponder on their aircraft, then so be it. The airspace is to be shared with commercial getting priority. That is the way it has always been. Money talks and s**t walks.

It seems as if in this hobby anyone is making a buck, everyone else tries to tear them to pieces.
Sorry to say Bill but this is what I've been talking about. Now we know where you stand. It's not about just making a buck, no. What it's about is wiping us all out(hobbyists) and in the process I'm not willing to give a Gxxxxxx inch of airspace to you, the Drone Weenies or the FAA without a fight. We (AMA)offered to help, we offered our expertise, our experience, our passion and our suggestions for the hobby and we were rebuffed. At almost every turn the only thing that helped us is the AMA's connections, our long standing record of safety and helpful legislators that understood the contribution AMA has made to the scene for 80+ years. The Commercial Drone Weenie Alliance and all the other drone alliances plus the FAA have done everything they can to kick us off the planet. IOW, they want it all and they use every dirty trick to do everything they can to get kicked off the island instead of trying to coexist. Where has AMA and modeling in general every lobbied Congress to say that the Drone Weenies are dangerous in spite of every indication that they are dangerous and many are out of control? Those of us on the ground know the situation, we've brought it to the forefront but when you look at the video feeds, the conversations and the transcripts of government meetings and the absolute farce that was FAA registration it's clear where this is going. No one is listening to us.

DJI wouldn't be this far along if weren't for testing of the NAZA and Wookong systems from the early days, all the crashed hardware, the loss of money by modelers and what do we get from DJI? Tire tracks on our azz from where we got run over by an ungrateful industry. That's the results Bill. Oh and BTW, the GPS system that we all paid for as tax payers and keep up as tax payers is being used against us by the Drone Weenie Alliance. You take away the access to the GPS system and the Drone Weenie's have nothing, they can't fly because they damn sure won't be able to handle an unstabilized aircraft. (BTW, I haven't forgotten the Russian Glonass systems existence either and how much it cost the Russians to create and maintain.) http://nation.time.com/2012/05/21/h...-does-gps-cost/ Let's not forget that if the cellphone system didn't exist that was paid for by a huge majority of cellphone using Americans that the Drone Weenies couldn't fly either. So when you couple the cell services and the GPS/Glonass service the Drone Weenies are using with a severe lack of flying skills that's a huge problem to me. It's a tenuous and fragile system at best and could potentially be fraught with safety issues.

AMA and modeling have earned access, we don't use the GPS/Glonass system, we take up a very small footprint and don't need to be regulated. We take care of it ourselves and we have the safety record to prove it.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-03-2018 01:53 PM  78 days agoPost 64
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Obvious.
I think the model you should consider is the FCC and the allocation of radio frequency airspace. There are government auctions of the spectrum. The cell phone you carry and enjoy is the result of these auctions. So too is the organization of airspace into flight ways. Airlines depend on these flight paths to be available and they pay huge fees. Don't kid yourself, people willing to pay will get what is necessary to meet their needs. The money will determine what happens to natural resources.

When it comes to Amazon package delivery, you will enjoy the results of the effort. You will get emergency medicines quickly. The hearth defib device will be delivered before the ambulance or police can arrive. So what if a bunch of model aircraft enthusiasts are pushed aside.

Wealthy individuals have vast land holdings. They have private zoos and private hunting grounds. If oil is found in national parks, it is soon exploited in most cases. Parks are not going to last when minerals (gold, silver, copper, oil sands) are discovered.

I expect that there will be a smaller sky to share with hobbyists. That is progress. Anything that can be, will be monetized. This is capitalism.

I am just stating the obvious, so don't get mad at me. The AMA and ilk have squat resources to do anything about this.

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08-03-2018 02:12 PM  77 days agoPost 65
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Heli_Splatter
I expect that there will be a smaller sky to share with hobbyists. That is progress. Anything that can be, will be monetized. This is capitalism.

I am just stating the obvious, so don't get mad at me. The AMA and ilk have squat resources to do anything about this.
Unfortunately ... I agree with you about this, yeah there's nothing we can do about it now...

We had the chance when we saw the potential danger, but we were ignored in favor of $$$...

I don't see us winning. 10 - 15 years from now this hobby will be relegated to expensive memberships in tiny 6 acre plots... and yes DRONES will be flying overhead.... day and night.

and a new crime will be mid air drone piracy... YAARRRRRR

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-03-2018 03:56 PM  77 days agoPost 66
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heli_Splatter
Obvious.
I think the model you should consider is the FCC and the allocation of radio frequency airspace. There are government auctions of the spectrum. The cell phone you carry and enjoy is the result of these auctions. So too is the organization of airspace into flight ways. Airlines depend on these flight paths to be available and they pay huge fees. Don't kid yourself, people willing to pay will get what is necessary to meet their needs. The money will determine what happens to natural resources.

When it comes to Amazon package delivery, you will enjoy the results of the effort. You will get emergency medicines quickly. The hearth defib device will be delivered before the ambulance or police can arrive. So what if a bunch of model aircraft enthusiasts are pushed aside.

Wealthy individuals have vast land holdings. They have private zoos and private hunting grounds. If oil is found in national parks, it is soon exploited in most cases. Parks are not going to last when minerals (gold, silver, copper, oil sands) are discovered.

I expect that there will be a smaller sky to share with hobbyists. That is progress. Anything that can be, will be monetized. This is capitalism.

I am just stating the obvious, so don't get mad at me. The AMA and ilk have squat resources to do anything about this.
There will be a whole new wave of lawsuits the likes of which you can only imagine and it will put up roadblocks for years to come. Watch for it.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-03-2018 08:06 PM  77 days agoPost 67
John Benario

rrVeteran

Las Vegas

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I am utterly dumbfounded by this person’s opinion and his lack of knowledge and common sense. “FlightWays” is not what they are and no, the airlines don’t pay to use them. The high altitude “jet routes” and lower altitude “victor airways” are available to everyone. You go buy a Gulfstream and you can go up to 51,000 feet without paying the government anything. Landing fees go to the cities that own the airports, but build yourself an 8000 foot strip and you can fly without paying anybody anything.

When I was flying helicopters offshore my company did not pay for me to leave Louisiana and land at a rig in the Gulf of Mexico.

Airspace has never been devoted to the highest bidder. That is absurd.

And yes, models have always been regulated. You can’t fly near an airport. That is safety related. And common sense. Something that the drone pilots lack in large amounts.

The holier than thou claim about teaching a class free for veterans is spurious. Veterans know better than most the concept of freedom and would be the group that is most offended by this thought that modelers should be arbitrarily shut down. Being a former Naval Officer I think I can speak as one.

As I said, I am dumbfounded that this individual is using RunRyder, a forum that he has not had to pay to use, run for the benefit of many generations of modelers at no cost but deserved respect for knowledge that is handed out freely. Having been flying models for 48 years and RC helicopters for 41 years I am truly offended at the claims by this individual.

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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08-03-2018 09:19 PM  77 days agoPost 68
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Are you EEngineer?
Whoa, there guy. I do know the correct terms, I just brain farted it.

If you don't think there is a cost to fly the levels you are delusional. It is an indirect cost, but oh boy, it is there.

I take particular offense to both you guys comments about my 107 work. First I was skewered for taking payment(did not), which I would be allowed but am not. Then you make some BS argument about freedom. I am totally about freedom and helping veterans regain their freedoms. I am a realist. Commercial drones are coming, there is no doubt about that. The best plan is to learn and fly the system, not be an old windbag curmudgeon about it.

Drones did not cause the "problem" the advancement of technology did. In fact the military drones lead the way. Stop banging on drones and calling us drone weenies for in fact all non piloted aircraft are DRONES.

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08-03-2018 11:11 PM  77 days agoPost 69
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heli_Splatter
Drones did not cause the "problem" the advancement of technology did. In fact the military drones lead the way. Stop banging on drones and calling us drone weenies for in fact all non piloted aircraft are DRONES.
WoW !!! I'm thinking that you are the one that is delusional !!! The fact is DRONE WEENIES are THE PROBLEM !! If the shoe fits, then wear it !!

Perhaps you should join the military. With your self proclaimed skills you should fit right in.....

I sure do wish EEngineer were back on this site !! I do miss his honest insight and sound perspective on things !!

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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08-04-2018 01:39 AM  77 days agoPost 70
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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John Benario and I have known each other for Decades. There's nothing more to add. He's right.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-05-2018 05:48 PM  75 days agoPost 71
HeliAdict

rrApprentice

Texas

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"Stop banging on drones and calling us drone weenies for in fact all non piloted aircraft are DRONES."
Then that leaves us out of the mix. Our aircraft are REMOTE PILOTED.

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08-05-2018 10:02 PM  75 days agoPost 72
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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HeliAdict
"Stop banging on drones and calling us drone weenies for in fact all non piloted aircraft are DRONES."
Then that leaves us out of the mix. Our aircraft are REMOTE PILOTED.
Sorry to say but not all non piloted aircraft are "DRONES". RC models are not drones. They are remote control models and always have been. Merriam Webster defines DRONE as: an unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight. Sounds like a DJI to me. When you command RTH are you flying it?

The level of autonomy and stabilization is what makes a Drone a Drone. Face it; no automation, no stabilization; no fly for the vast majority of Drone Weenies. It's a simple test my friend. Do you fly RC or do you fly a GPS stabilized multi rotor appliance?

The Drone Weenie moniker describes a user that constantly violates good common sense model flying. If you fly at closed fields, stay within VLOS, have permission or own the property and are an AMA member chances are you are a competent modeler, you don't qualify as a Drone Weenie. If you fly over people, property and BLOS on a routine basis at any altitude you like and think you own the skies and don't have to follow rules or good common sense you just got awarded the Drone Weenie label.

It is precisely the folks that qualify as Drone Weenies that are part of the problem that we as modelers face.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-06-2018 12:01 PM  75 days agoPost 73
HeliAdict

rrApprentice

Texas

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TMoore:
Hope that post was not for my benefit. I only fly planes and helicopters. Not a fan of DRONES at all. I was pointing out the fact that our aircraft are indeed REMOTE PILOTED. Actually DRONES aren't the problem. Stupid is the problem.

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08-06-2018 02:34 PM  74 days agoPost 74
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Autonomous FPV flight is the ONLY problem... its what got us in this mess in the first place... the day they decided to stick a camera and add long range transceivers is the day we should have outlawed such activities for the "hobbyist". Any tech that allows you to fly an aircraft beyond line of sight has enabled individuals a high amount of anonymity from being prosecuted by the law... they may find the drone, but finding the pilot is difficult if not impossible unless they post the video online and you trace that back to them.

The solution was to Ban or require expensive licensure of FPV and Autonomous flight BEFORE they became commercially available... and that would have ended 90% or more of the incidents we now see every year...

Unfortunately this is where the drone alliance and other such advocacy groups want everything now to go... to include LOS RC aircraft. WE ARE IN THEIR WAY. the moron weekend drone thrill seeker has already sowed the seeds for the eventual extinction of free exercise of this hobby.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-06-2018 10:03 PM  74 days agoPost 75
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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I agree with this, more or less. The AMA should have stayed out of "advanced flight control systems" and let those types make their own CBO. Nowadays, very few FPVers are even members of the AMA anyway. Certainly the amount of AMA sanctioned FPV events is very low.

In regards to the Remote ID nonsense, it's just that, a bunch of ineffective bologna putting more cost on users and manufacturers (who have to make the stupid things work) for little to no payback. A user of nefarious intent will not allow such tech to work or use equipment so equipped, anyway. It's all such a mess from ignorant bureaucrats...reminds me tremendously of ignorant and ineffective gun control laws based on paranoia.
RM3
Autonomous FPV flight is the ONLY problem... its what got us in this mess in the first place... the day they decided to stick a camera and add long range transceivers is the day we should have outlawed such activities for the "hobbyist". Any tech that allows you to fly an aircraft beyond line of sight has enabled individuals a high amount of anonymity from being prosecuted by the law... they may find the drone, but finding the pilot is difficult if not impossible unless they post the video online and you trace that back to them.

The solution was to Ban or require expensive licensure of FPV and Autonomous flight BEFORE they became commercially available... and that would have ended 90% or more of the incidents we now see every year...

Unfortunately this is where the drone alliance and other such advocacy groups want everything now to go... to include LOS RC aircraft. WE ARE IN THEIR WAY. the moron weekend drone thrill seeker has already sowed the seeds for the eventual extinction of free exercise of this hobby.

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08-07-2018 12:26 AM  74 days agoPost 76
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ErichF
I agree with this, more or less. The AMA should have stayed out of "advanced flight control systems" and let those types make their own CBO. Nowadays, very few FPVers are even members of the AMA anyway. Certainly the amount of AMA sanctioned FPV events is very low.

In regards to the Remote ID nonsense, it's just that, a bunch of ineffective bologna putting more cost on users and manufacturers (who have to make the stupid things work) for little to no payback. A user of nefarious intent will not allow such tech to work or use equipment so equipped, anyway. It's all such a mess from ignorant bureaucrats...reminds me tremendously of ignorant and ineffective gun control laws based on paranoia.
Exactly. The AMA got on the we wanna be everything bandwagon and that didn't work so well. What's disappointing from a technical perspective is how much lying is going on when you see the Congressional testimony by so-called industry experts and there is no one there that can call BS on the proceedings.

It's fun to pick at the Drone Weenies but honestly that segment of the hobby has it's own set of problems like the fact that it's not self regulating. The equipment is good enough that the operator is along for the ride for most of the flight due to automation and effectively removes the flight control skill and orientation aspects from the flight ops. I FPV race and have a healthy respect for that segment of the hobby. The FPV racers that follow protocol aren't the problem either.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-20-2018 06:05 AM  61 days agoPost 77
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Another Drone Weenie incursion.

Watch at YouTube

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-20-2018 06:51 AM  61 days agoPost 78
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

For all drone weenies....
I took this picture recently in Czechoslovakia..... apparently, they don’t like Drone Weenies either !!!!

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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08-20-2018 03:37 PM  60 days agoPost 79
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That full size must have had a mean cross wind or the tail was bad out of trim. Love that sign.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-20-2018 09:13 PM  60 days agoPost 80
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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John Bernario, masterfull post.

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