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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Where is the AMA?
08-01-2018 04:50 AM  79 days agoPost 41
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Heli_Splatter
Good Outweighs the Bad
All I hear is how bad the drone pilots are. Well, I can tell you that there are quite a few serious and conscientious drone pilots. Yes, all the features on a DJI Mavik can be a serious study to perfect and use. All the telemetry and video data far exceed what plank and rotor heads are used to. Most multi-rotors sold today are more complex.

Many of us spend a great deal of time staying up with the latest developments in the field while we fly all types of aircraft.

Sure there are stupid childish pilots and stunts. I have found that after explaining the reasons why, most of these guys/gals will fly with more respect and follow the regulations. I spend a lot of time teaching responsible drone flight each week. Look down your nose at me, just because I fly drones does not mean that I am not a better pilot than you.

I like aerial photography, I can now do it inexpensively.
I still love my helicopters too. I don't have to choose.
We're not worried about you dude. It's all the folks that you can't get to that are worrisome. Are you a microcosm? Quite a few serious pilots? The sheer number of Drone owners dwarf all AMA members by a factor of 5 or more. There are only 100K or so of Part 107 holders and no flight training in the pursuit of certification. You almost sound like someone in the drone biz. Are you?

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-01-2018 02:21 PM  78 days agoPost 42
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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here's the problem with drones:

I can buy a drone with a camera and within 30 minutes of opening the box it came in I can be spying on the neighbors or flying at 2,000 AGL outside an airport getting video of a commercial airliner and its pilots as it comes in for a landing or taking off... for those with a tendency to break the law be it knowingly or not, its a tool ripe for abuse because of its ease of use and lack of safeguards.

We had RC Planes, helicopters, boats, cars, motorcycles, and even submarines for decades... you could mount anything to them to include cameras, the technology now allows them as well to be autonomous... but never have we seen the amount of incidents related to UAS as we had until the proliferation of multi-rotors. And Never had we had the FAA get involved with the hobby as they have over the last 10 years... NEVER. And the ONLY reason they haven't banned multi-rotors with cameras altogether is because big business has a vested interest in them for commercial profit, because they are very cheap to manufacture (4 moving parts minimum), maintain(disposable?) and easy to fly. And now that they see the potential money to be made from their use they want to kill the hobbyists access to the skies to make way for their business ventures.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-01-2018 05:18 PM  78 days agoPost 43
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/a...drone-alliance/

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-01-2018 05:54 PM  78 days agoPost 44
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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TMoore
We're not worried about you dude. It's all the folks that you can't get to that are worrisome. Are you a microcosm? Quite a few serious pilots? The sheer number of Drone owners dwarf all AMA members by a factor of 5 or more. There are only 100K or so of Part 107 holders and no flight training in the pursuit of certification. You almost sound like someone in the drone biz. Are you?
A couple of things; Thanks, I am glad that you are not worried about me. I would be a serious pilot no matter what. My private license instructor would have it no other way. I certainly don't think an AMA membership is indicative of anything. Also, you would have to think most drone users have several to many multi-rotors. The test and fees limit most of the 107 interested pilots. I am not in the drone business, I am teaching a 107 course.

Guys were flying FPV long before multi-rotors appeared.
I think that bureaucrats realized just what is possible when they saw military drones working overseas. So, in my opinion, you would have to blame the military for what is really possible. Congress does not want to see drones doing evil. For the most part, an OTS drone will not be able to take down a commercial jet.

Stop blaming multi-rotors, start blaming technology and the events of 911 that made us all paranoid.

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08-01-2018 06:39 PM  78 days agoPost 45
John Benario

rrVeteran

Las Vegas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It isn’t whether a cheapie drone can take down a jet, probably not, but I sure would not want a DJI sucked into one of my engines as I take off or land my 737. I would rather keep both engines running, thank you.

The idiot video of Frontier coming in to land at LAS shows it can happen.

The issue is what will happen to our model carve out in section 336 when the public demands action after one of your careful drone pilots takes out one of my engines and I do a (successful) single engine landing and the NTSB finds DJI parts in the failed engine.

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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08-01-2018 08:22 PM  78 days agoPost 46
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Heli_Splatter
For the most part, an OTS drone will not be able to take down a commercial jet.
that's where you are very wrong... you assume it cant because of its size in relation to say a Jet engine intake... but fleshly and fluffy 10 lb Canadian geese easily brought down flight 1549 when they hit the engines. now add metal components to that like a DJI Phantom 2 which weighs 2.2 lbs and the circumstances are in favor of the drone doing more damage compared to a raw squawking family sized bucket of KFC.

guess all the hours Airmen and sailors put into walking runways picking up every tiny bit of debris is a waste of time by what you say...

for someone claiming to be such an expert I'm surprised at the lack of logic in your comment.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-01-2018 08:35 PM  78 days agoPost 47
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heli_Splatter
A couple of things; Thanks, I am glad that you are not worried about me. I would be a serious pilot no matter what. My private license instructor would have it no other way. I certainly don't think an AMA membership is indicative of anything. Also, you would have to think most drone users have several to many multi-rotors. The test and fees limit most of the 107 interested pilots. I am not in the drone business, I am teaching a 107 course.

Guys were flying FPV long before multi-rotors appeared.
I think that bureaucrats realized just what is possible when they saw military drones working overseas. So, in my opinion, you would have to blame the military for what is really possible. Congress does not want to see drones doing evil. For the most part, an OTS drone will not be able to take down a commercial jet.

Stop blaming multi-rotors, start blaming technology and the events of 911 that made us all paranoid.
Teaching a Part 107 course as in a paid Part 107 course? I knew there had to be a connection.

I'm not blaming the GPS stabilized multi's that any knucklehead can fly. I'm blaming the proliferation of GPS stabilized multirotors that anyone can fly. Big difference Bill. You can't fly what you don't have.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-01-2018 10:22 PM  78 days agoPost 48
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This talk about commercial, part 107 certificated operators. They are rarely any problem. Non-certificated commercial operators and hobby drone operators are typically the problem children. A quick browse of Youtube will show this. Commercial operators doing real project work have too much to lose to be idiots. So, pissing on someone's opinion just because they work in the commercial side of the industry is not fair. It's like dismissing a cop's opinion on gun crime because he carries a gun for work. I've been in the SUAS industry for 14 years now, am I also irrelevant in the discussion?

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08-01-2018 10:25 PM  78 days agoPost 49
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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On both sides, the "mines harder than yours" arguments is non-productive, too. Effectively using drones as a business in real precision project work is not something any knucklehead can do, and setting up and flying a heli is definitely more complicated than pulling out a Phantom 4 and doing a compass cal, and then pushing the throttle stick up. Especially if yer stuck on using IOC mode

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08-01-2018 11:03 PM  78 days agoPost 50
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

AMA... Academy of Model aeronautics... Very difficult to traslate to spanish.

In my country , we don't have that kind of regulating "office".
Must of the cases, drone pilots are usually very irresponsable guys, base on "no particular skill required" to Fly those "flying things"... We need to have rules!!!

Rules... You have, at least... We don't even think to have a federation.

Money, the principal motivation... Very bad.

National security matter... Very Sad.

Enjoy the hobby with the simple pleasure of flying... In danger.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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08-02-2018 03:01 AM  78 days agoPost 51
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am not being paid for the 107 course. Veterans for FREE

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08-02-2018 06:59 AM  78 days agoPost 52
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ErichF
This talk about commercial, part 107 certificated operators. They are rarely any problem. Non-certificated commercial operators and hobby drone operators are typically the problem children. A quick browse of Youtube will show this. Commercial operators doing real project work have too much to lose to be idiots. So, pissing on someone's opinion just because they work in the commercial side of the industry is not fair. It's like dismissing a cop's opinion on gun crime because he carries a gun for work. I've been in the SUAS industry for 14 years now, am I also irrelevant in the discussion?

On both sides, the "mines harder than yours" arguments is non-productive, too. Effectively using drones as a business in real precision project work is not something any knucklehead can do, and setting up and flying a heli is definitely more complicated than pulling out a Phantom 4 and doing a compass cal, and then pushing the throttle stick up. Especially if yer stuck on using IOC mode
I'm not pissing on anyones opinion but if you are in the business and on RR defending the drone biz as a whole tell us you are in the business up front and then we'll know. Unless you have been under a rock, YOUR(Commercial Drone Alliance)lobbying group, since you are in the business, is trying to steal my ability to fly in my chosen hobby because the conditions have changed according to them or have you been living under a rock for the last 14 years that you have been in the SUAS industry and are just not seeing this happen? I don't see how you could have missed it. You don't deny that the CDA along with a bunch of their other friends like AMAZON, Ford and Intel want the 0 to 400' airspace for themselves and to hell with us because we are a nuisance do you?

The only problem that I have with the Part 107 is there is no flight training, no LOS work, no real experience to speak of and the other big issue that I have is that most of the so called flight schools that go around the country teaching folks to fly their drones are shams. No one to speak of can get the listed experience that SOME of these folks put down in their blurbs online because of the mere fact that this aspect of the sport/hobby/business just hasn't been around that long. I don't expect that a Part 107 pilot will openly screw the pooch and fly where they aren't supposed to either but I also expect that unless they are flying like some of the folks I know in the biz, i.e., all the time and racking up lots of hours that these folks are not high time pilots.

As you pointed out; "Non-certificated commercial operators and hobby drone operators are typically the problem children."; you'll get no argument from me on that statement. That comprises the "Drone Weenies" group that I speak of along with the lobbying group that advocates for them. As far as the "mines harder than yours" argument is concerned; that is a very productive discussion to have because the automation and autonomy part of flying a current DJI type device removes flying skill development from the equation that was a HUGE factor in keeping the numbers of users under control and unless you have been off planet for awhile it's clear that the ONLY reason that so many folks can become successful flying FPV type machines such as the GPS stabilized appliance multis is due to the automation and autonomy. You remove that and the attrition rate is now back in effect. That is undeniable and to me is the rub. If you are a private pilot you get stick instruction, same for commercial, if you are a model builder you get trained at your local field and get stick time, otherwise you crash, rebuild and get tired of spending money on the hobby because it's too hard. (AMA field instruction is a lot safer than flying out in the open unrestricted airspace, in front of and over people and property which seem to be the chosen spot for most of the Drone flying population.) Not so with stabilized drones, it's hard to crash something that is flying itself 90 % of the time. Let's face it, you buy a Phantom IV, Aspire or other DJI product, connect up your phone, charge the battery and in minutes after a cursory read of the instructions you can be airborne causing mayhem as you admitted earlier.

None of the current proposals from the CDA and other groups like transponders will work with models due to RFI from a close TX in proximity to a RX due to heightened noise floor and diminishing ground control amplitude. Current radio designs were not engineered with that type of close proximity emissions blanking out a RX. So many of the arguments being used are just industry strategy to confuse, obfuscate and confound Congress into believing there is a problem. Like advising a Congressman that a motion sensor on a sliding door will interfere with a Drone on final. Please, those arguments are lame but they don't know that. As you said Erich you've been in the SUAS biz for 14 years, do you want modelers to go away, do you need our airspace? Do you think that 336 should be rescinded and done away with so that we all have to get a Part 107 to fly?

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-02-2018 08:27 AM  77 days agoPost 53
Ghia

rrApprentice

Abq, NM

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If ya are members of facebook fpv groups like rotor riot etc there are Ama reps in there calming folks down...holding hands...licking earlobes etc.

Why no one from ama licking my ear in rc heli or airplane rooms?? I get easily jealous!

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08-02-2018 02:14 PM  77 days agoPost 54
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Ghia
etc there are Ama reps in there calming folks down...holding hands.
These "elected AMA officials" in each district? I advise they keep their mouths shut. They've done enough damage already by not seeing the danger of allowing autonomous and non los FPV flight. If they would have advocated for a clear separation of tech from the hobby world maybe they would be a clear distinction in the FAA between our hobby and autonomous UAS and remote FPV systems.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-02-2018 09:22 PM  77 days agoPost 55
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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Terry,
We've been on this forum together for some time now, so you make assumptions about me I don't quite understand. In any case, I assure you that my company, one of very few US-based, small businesses that actually build and sell UAVs, is not in the CDA, and oppose the ULC. That said, the ULC is asking for the first 200 feet, not 400 feet. The ULC is made up of entities that don't even manufacture UAVs, and that's part of the problem. Most of the 12 people that work in my company also enjoy the hobby side, so again you make a false assumption of our intentions toward killing the hobby. That's absurd. Go after DJI and Amazon all you want. We just want to put food on the table, here.

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08-02-2018 11:02 PM  77 days agoPost 56
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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ErichF
Terry,
We've been on this forum together for some time now, so you make assumptions about me I don't quite understand. In any case, I assure you that my company, one of very few US-based, small businesses that actually build and sell UAVs, is not in the CDA, and oppose the ULC. That said, the ULC is asking for the first 200 feet, not 400 feet. The ULC is made up of entities that don't even manufacture UAVs, and that's part of the problem. Most of the 12 people that work in my company also enjoy the hobby side, so again you make a false assumption of our intentions toward killing the hobby. That's absurd. Go after DJI and Amazon all you want. We just want to put food on the table, here.
Erich,
We have been on here a long time and I'm not accusing you. I was very careful to use the "if" word. I have no issues with you putting food on the table. Just to be accurate is this the company that you speak of? https://www.birdseyeview.aero
You have to admit that there are several RR and HF members involved in the Drone biz and we have to know who we, the modelers that aren't in the biz, are speaking to online in the name of fairness.

Whether it's the ULC: https://www.thedroneu.com/blog/the-...ing-of-the-nas/
or the CDA: https://www.commercialdronealliance.org

Either group is advocating for the successful acquisition of the airspace that me and thousands of my fellow hobbyists currently enjoy. That leaves 100 feet between 400 feet and 500 feet for all the Commercial Drone users to argue over. I don't care one way or the other but it's not right for a group like the CDA and the ULC to summarily kick us out of the airspace that we have worked so hard as a group to keep safe and not cause issues. In short, it's not us.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-02-2018 11:29 PM  77 days agoPost 57
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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Terry,

Yes, that is our company. I chose not to mention or link it so as not to rile "he who must be obeyed" regarding commercial links As for transparency, anyone that's been around here awhile with stake in the game knows I've been in the UAV biz for a long time. Hell, it's in my profile, I think. It's only the past three years or so that my work has gone more commercial rather than DOD.

Honestly, we are against the ULC for the same reason as any hobbyist...our customers need that airspace just as much, and in more varied locations. Commercial work doesn't just exist out in the desert or at neat little fields. Amazon and the like want to take it for THEMSELVES, exclusive use airspace for the stupid delivery scam.

You're right, it's not the RC hobbyist. It's the DRONE hobbyist that has continually given ammo to the FED for restricting all small aerial activities, hence my Youtube reference. Casey Neistat is a serial offender, and makes a million bucks on his channel doing retarded things in stupid places with drones.

Erich
TMoore
Erich,
We have been on here a long time and I'm not accusing you. I was very careful to use the "if" word. I have no issues with you putting food on the table. Just to be accurate is this the company that you speak of? https://www.birdseyeview.aero
You have to admit that there are several RR and HF members involved in the Drone biz and we have to know who we, the modelers that aren't in the biz, are speaking to online in the name of fairness.

Whether it's the ULC: https://www.thedroneu.com/blog/the-...ing-of-the-nas/
or the CDA: https://www.commercialdronealliance.org

Either group is advocating for the successful acquisition of the airspace that me and thousands of my fellow hobbyists currently enjoy. That leaves 100 feet between 400 feet and 500 feet for all the Commercial Drone users to argue over. I don't care one way or the other but it's not right for a group like the CDA and the ULC to summarily kick us out of the airspace that we have worked so hard as a group to keep safe and not cause issues. In short, it's not us.

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08-02-2018 11:36 PM  77 days agoPost 58
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Follow the Money
I don't know where people get the idea that the first 400 feet of airspace should belong to hobbyists. It should belong to the highest bidder. PERIOD. If money can be made off that part of the flight spectrum, so be it. If the hobbyist has to have a transponder on their aircraft, then so be it. The airspace is to be shared with commercial getting priority. That is the way it has always been. Money talks and s**t walks.

It seems as if in this hobby anyone is making a buck, everyone else tries to tear them to pieces.

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08-02-2018 11:48 PM  77 days agoPost 59
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That's not how our airspace system has ever worked. Nor should it. This would be like Airlines taking all the airspace over 2000 feet, and to hell with private and sport pilots. No, it's not how it works. The NAS is a shared national asset for anyone with the credentials and equipment to access it. No one should need transponders if they are flying VLOS at a designated model field, or if in Class G airspace below 500 feet, IMO.
Heli_Splatter
I don't know where people get the idea that the first 400 feet of airspace should belong to hobbyists. It should belong to the highest bidder. PERIOD.

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08-03-2018 12:21 AM  77 days agoPost 60
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heli_Splatter
It should belong to the highest bidder. PERIOD. If money can be made off that part of the flight spectrum, so be it.
I hope you're not serious.
Heli_Splatter
Money talks and s**t walks.
Haha...Negative.
ErichF
The NAS is a shared national asset for anyone with the credentials and equipment to access it.
This is the correct, sane, and reasonable answer. Otherwise, applying Heli_Splatter's argument, every public park/landmark/monument would be privately owned and fenced off with "no trespassing" signs.

J. B. Jones

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