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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Where is the AMA?
07-24-2018 03:22 PM  4 months agoPost 21
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

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RM3
how so? IF they were there, and thats a big ol "IF"... obviously they had no input, and were not even asked to be there,
HHuumm they were not invited not allowed to speak nor were they wanted at the meeting

WTF do you and all the other pessimists/AMA haters think they should have been doing ?

Seems to me they were doing the only thing that they could
all things considered

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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07-24-2018 03:24 PM  4 months agoPost 22
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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banshee rider
Seems to me they were doing the only thing that they could
all things considered
which is what... exactly?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-24-2018 04:00 PM  4 months agoPost 23
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

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monitoring the enemies game plan
the only thing they could do under the circumstances

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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07-24-2018 04:23 PM  4 months agoPost 24
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That’s akin to squinting just before you get punched in the face ...

So anyone here got any suggestions for what the AMA can do?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-24-2018 05:12 PM  4 months agoPost 25
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

RM3
That’s akin to squinting just before you get punched in the face ...

So anyone here got any suggestions for what the AMA can do?
I havent seen you come up with any bright ideas on how they should have done anything different given the circumstances they were dealing with

And I wont bother suggesting anything because you will just find some way
to turn it into another one of your negative rants

and what do you care about what the AMA does you have already stated that your going rogue pirate

Do you ever see anything in a positive light
With all your trash talking pessimistic views on the world
you must be the life of the party

The AMA are the only people looking out for us modelers
whether there looking to fill there pockets or someone elses
nobody else is doing anything for us

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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07-24-2018 06:43 PM  4 months agoPost 26
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

there wouldnt be any trash talking or pessimism from me if the AMA actually did what it was supposed to do. We warned them not to get involved with autonomous RC tech, and we got ignored in favor of increased revenue... we asked them why heli flyers were not better represented in the magazine for years and not until a few years ago did they bother to include a single column concerning RC helicopters, alot of good that does now since all the other heli magazines have gone belly up... When they had a meeting with AMA members concerning regulation a few years ago they played it off as a big nothing burger. to say I will just shoot down anyone's else's idea is the the weak mans way of running from a fight. Or do you all plan on writing a bunch of letters to the AMA ... Again.
you yourself said it:
monitoring the enemies game plan
the only thing they could do under the circumstances
So obviously they CANT do anything for you then by what you said... so why be a part of a group that cant do anything in such circumstances?
I say you all should give the AMA an ultimatum... be more active and vocal concerning further regulation or you'll pull your membership. Money talks.. and thats how you get organizations to move on your behalf.

drones have thier own insurance...

Watch at YouTube

Farmers is alot cheaper than AMA and is a primary insurance:

Watch at YouTube

So what do they do that other cant do better? a magazine?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-25-2018 11:15 AM  4 months agoPost 27
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Venice, FL USA

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If you’re so upset with them then don’t rejoin. Start your own lobbying group but by god, stop whining like a child when you get amazing insurance for a mere $100 a year.

Srimok, Goblin 770, Avant Aurora, Trex 700 Suzi Hans, 700 LE, 700 FBL, Trex 450 Dominator X2, HC500, and a crap ton of parts with no time to fly! :)

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07-25-2018 02:02 PM  4 months agoPost 28
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Obviously you didnt watch the second video... starting at 8:22, State Farm will do it 25% - 50% less $$$... ANYWHERE in the world for DRONES.. I imagine they would do it for RC aircraft of any type then as long as it is under 55lbs.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-25-2018 05:34 PM  4 months agoPost 29
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Venice, FL USA

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My local flight field doesn’t take State Farm. They do take AMA. And I guarantee State Farm isn’t going to insure me flying my 1/2 scale planes and my 700 sized Helis with no professional training, no licensing and around tons of other people for $100 a year. Drones don’t hurt. My 700s will kill and keep flying.

Srimok, Goblin 770, Avant Aurora, Trex 700 Suzi Hans, 700 LE, 700 FBL, Trex 450 Dominator X2, HC500, and a crap ton of parts with no time to fly! :)

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07-25-2018 05:58 PM  4 months agoPost 30
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Quicktoy
I guarantee State Farm isn’t going to insure me flying my 1/2 scale planes and my 700 sized Helis
why wouldnt they? they'll give full coverage to a 840 hp 4,448 lb Dodge Demon and its occupants as long as your not breaking the law... which is also the case with AMA in terms of models and the law... and according to the video above the'll ensure a drone under 55lbs... and dont require any special training nor be it operated at any special location... I dont know about you but a drone that weighs 50lbs is plenty dangerous enough.

besides IF you do have 1/2 scale RC planes, they likely weigh over 55lbs and therefore are no longer under Section 343 (previously Section 336) so you now you fall into a special section of AMA (RADIO CONTROL LARGE MODEL AIRPLANE PROGRAM) and must be certified airworthy through the issuance of a Permit, which still puts it outside the thin protection of FAA Section 343... So good luck with that...

keep this in mind, from thier very own website https://www.modelaircraft.org/files...maryMembers.pdf ...
AMA Is “excess” to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s.
2018 INSURANCE SUMMARY – THE FACTS ABOUT AMA’S INSURANCE BENEFITS
For Individual Members

General Liability Coverage (Effective March 31)
 AMA Liability Protection applies to bodily injury or property damage caused by an AMA member. Any AMA
member who causes an accident resulting in an injury must report that accident immediately to AMA HQ.
 Applies to accidents arising from the modeling activities of model aircraft, rockets, cars and boats, in
accordance with the AMA NATIONAL Safety Code(s).
 The ‘per occurrence’ limit of coverage available by this policy is $2,500,000 involving bodily injury and/or
property damage. These limits are for claims occurring during the policy period. Coverage is provided only for
accidents arising from the model activities.
 A separate policy covers participation in FAI events outside of the United States and Canada. This policy has
a $2,000,000 limit.
 There is no coverage for injury to a member to his own family (Household and Relative(s) living in the
member’s household) for claims or suits.
 The policy does NOT cover business pursuits; that is any activity that generates income for a member beyond
reimbursement of expenses, except this business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
AMA insurance is “excess” to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s.
 Has a $250.00 deductible (property damage only), which is the responsibility of the AMA member causing the
accident.

Accident/Medical Coverage (Effective January 1)
The Accident/Medical coverage applies to injuries while engaged in model activity regardless of who causes the
accident. It reimburses an AMA member in accordance with policy terms and conditions for only medical
expenses (also the beneficiary for loss of life) incurred within 52 weeks of the accident. The Accident/Medical
coverage works as follows:
 Provides up to $25,000 for medical expenses and $10,000 for dismemberment or death.
 Insures AMA member directly – does not require claim action by another person.
 Pays for eligible expenses upon submission of bills or other documents certifying cost of treatment and that
injury was caused by model activity.
Reimburses medical expenses only after submission to any other health plan, including Medicare.
 Has a $750.00 deductible.

Fire, Vandalism, and Theft Coverage (Effective March 31)
 Provides up to $1,000 for loss of aircraft models and accessories, including RC equipment. All theft loss
claims must be accompanied by a police report. NOTE: Theft has to occur from a locked vehicle or
residential dwelling. There must be physical evidence of violent forcible entry.
 Has a $100.00 deductible.
Is “excess” to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s.
So basically they only come in AFTER everyone else has paid what they can...

I honestly think we have gotten all wrapped up with the AMA simply because we havent bothered to research any alternative, If we are going with AMA solely for insurance maybe its time we look at other offerings and keep the AMA for its representation purposes... Ive Emailed my insurance agent to ask him about RC models and what they can offer and under what circumstances...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-26-2018 05:00 PM  4 months agoPost 31
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Quicktoy
My local flight field doesn’t take State Farm. They do take AMA. And I guarantee State Farm isn’t going to insure me flying my 1/2 scale planes and my 700 sized Helis with no professional training, no licensing and around tons of other people for $100 a year. Drones don’t hurt. My 700s will kill and keep flying.
Are you insinuating that the Part 107 is actual training for Drone operations? If you are; there are folks up north in the bridge business that would like to speak with you.

Look it up; there is nothing on the State Farm site that even remotely asks for any kind of credentials for their insurance policy and the policy is not for liability. State Farm insurance is all over the drone weenie sites but it doesn't provide anything remotely resembling what AMA offers in conjunction with your Homeowners policy. It's a PAP policy, plain and simple.

The one thing that you aren't considering in your analysis with regards to "no professional training" is this; Our hobby is self regulating to a very large extent. If you don't commit the time and effort to learning the ropes of building, flying and maintaining; the hobby will exact it's own penalties or you'll be a hangar queen hauler. What I mean by that is if you don't learn to fly you learn very quickly what crashing is like, if you crash a lot you rebuild/replace a lot which also costs a lot of money in the process. If you want to get better you fly around folks that are better and you get pushed and educated at the same time. The more you fly and the more successes you have, the better you get at the hobby. If you have any semblance of common sense and half a brain in your head the hobby in general and flying around others that are better than you will educate you in a way that Professional training and a test can't possibly do. To a large degree, the hobby has it's own apprenticeship program where the successful modelers come up through the ranks learning as they go and building on their prior successes................and failures. If you don't maim yourself or others and no one dies by your hand you get to keep on enjoying the thrill of the sport.

As an old Doctor told his patient one day, the cure she was seeking was just a "tincture of time". Her response was; could she get that script filled at the CVS down the street? Being a Drone Weenie bypasses all the safeguards the hobby naturally has and offloads it to a black box on board the model and a cellphone that substitutes for a traditional RC system. No amount of professional training will do for you what experience and time will. Certifications mean NOTHING at this point in time because the so called experts are paper experts with no time in type to speak of and just a paper trail of BS that's being hauled behind them.

In short, if you suck at this hobby you quit or it dimes you to death.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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07-26-2018 05:30 PM  4 months agoPost 32
John Benario

rrVeteran

Las Vegas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Terry, as usual, has valid points. Regarding the suggestion that AMA can be replaced with cheaper, better, whatever insurance, if you remember some years ago there was similar sentiment that the AMA only concerned itself with contest caliber flyers and the weekend pilots were underrepresented. The result was a splinter group called SFA, Sport Flyers Association. It failed. AMA is a large, probably somewhat bureaucratic organization because that is what is required to adequately represent a large group.

The problem now is that it is representing us, a dying hobby, against much larger well funded groups with a profit motive. We can only hope that bringing out people like Hoot Gibson will attract enough attention that modeling will survive. We have already lost most of our manufacturers, we need to support the AMA so we don't lose our flying fields.

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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07-30-2018 05:26 PM  4 months agoPost 33
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Could Not Disagree More
Another Diatribe; Multi-rotors to blame for everything. Drone pilots are all snot nose paper pilots.

I for one take great offense to your utterings. I fly planes to 70cc size, helicopters to 800 size, gliders to 1.5m, multi-rotors to 850mm 8 motor size and I fly the DJI drones. I build my own stuff and quite frankly there is a very good chance that I am a better pilot than you.

There are quite a lot of safe competent multi-rotor pilots about. You really do need to study to fly many multi-rotors. The complexity far exceeds your 4 channel sunday trainer. It also exceeds the 6 channel helicopters.

I fly everything. Call me a drone-weenie and you will probably need to see a dentist.

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07-31-2018 07:57 AM  4 months agoPost 34
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Heli_Splatter
Could Not Disagree More
Another Diatribe; Multi-rotors to blame for everything. Drone pilots are all snot nose paper pilots.

I for one take great offense to your utterings. I fly planes to 70cc size, helicopters to 800 size, gliders to 1.5m, multi-rotors to 850mm 8 motor size and I fly the DJI drones. I build my own stuff and quite frankly there is a very good chance that I am a better pilot than you.

There are quite a lot of safe competent multi-rotor pilots about. You really do need to study to fly many multi-rotors. The complexity far exceeds your 4 channel sunday trainer. It also exceeds the 6 channel helicopters.

I fly everything. Call me a drone-weenie and you will probably need to see a dentist.
Bill; If you are offended it is by your own choosing. Why do I need to study to fly multis? I never did before. Do you think that I don't fly them? I fly all sorts of machines and airplanes but you can take offense if you want but it doesn't change the facts. You last comment is the most telling. No one is having to deal with complexity in the least due to the fact that no one is actually assembling, testing or trimming any of the DJI or other prepackaged machines so how are they more complex and furthermore why does it matter? The fact is that the Drone Weenies that fly in all sorts of dangerous settings are the problem. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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07-31-2018 03:00 PM  4 months agoPost 35
douflytoo

rrNovice

Valparaiso, IN. USA

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Couldn't AGREE more
TMoore
Bill; If you are offended it is by your own choosing. Why do I need to study to fly multis? I never did before. Do you think that I don't fly them? I fly all sorts of machines and airplanes but you can take offense if you want but it doesn't change the facts. You last comment is the most telling. No one is having to deal with complexity in the least due to the fact that no one is actually assembling, testing or trimming any of the DJI or other prepackaged machines so how are they more complex and furthermore why does it matter? The fact is that the Drone Weenies that fly in all sorts of dangerous settings are the problem. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
Here is a perfect example of what I believe is the vast majority of "consumer drone buyers/operators"...

This past weekend at a family party my "cousin-in-law" took his drone to 700 feet, set it stationary and then...walked away to cigar smoke and sip beer.
TMoore
There are quite a lot of safe competent multi-rotor pilots about. You really do need to study to fly many multi-rotors. The complexity far exceeds your 4 channel sunday trainer. It also exceeds the 6 channel helicopters.
REALLY!

Our location, situated on the final approach course for a well known MAJOR Midwest airport with airliners between 1000 to 1500agl.

He wasn't paying attention to his drone,why...because he didnt have to! Having no idea if a full-scale (who would have never seen it until they hit it) was going to collide. He finally brought it back below 400' when informed.

Yes, "drone weenies"!

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07-31-2018 07:47 PM  4 months agoPost 36
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-31-2018 08:28 PM  4 months agoPost 37
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That my friend epitomizes the spirit here on RR. The perfect response. Well done. From this day forth this shall be their logo. Tally ho!

Back on topic again, here is an article of importance: https://dronelife.com/2018/07/25/co...draft-tort-law/

Here is another that advocates for transponders which will not work with models. https://about.bgov.com/blog/careles...ries-lawmakers/

Better Drone laws? You be the judge. https://www.trustedreviews.com/news...ws-2018-3146402

There's more: http://www.thedrive.com/tech/20060/...te-hobby-pilots

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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07-31-2018 11:38 PM  4 months agoPost 38
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Good Outweighs the Bad
All I hear is how bad the drone pilots are. Well, I can tell you that there are quite a few serious and conscientious drone pilots. Yes, all the features on a DJI Mavik can be a serious study to perfect and use. All the telemetry and video data far exceed what plank and rotor heads are used to. Most multi-rotors sold today are more complex.

Many of us spend a great deal of time staying up with the latest developments in the field while we fly all types of aircraft.

Sure there are stupid childish pilots and stunts. I have found that after explaining the reasons why, most of these guys/gals will fly with more respect and follow the regulations. I spend a lot of time teaching responsible drone flight each week. Look down your nose at me, just because I fly drones does not mean that I am not a better pilot than you.

I like aerial photography, I can now do it inexpensively.
I still love my helicopters too. I don't have to choose.

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07-31-2018 11:47 PM  4 months agoPost 39
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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The Drone Weenies are ruining the hobby for the rest of us.... because of their "stunts" and reckless behavior, the rest of us are paying for it in terms of a barrage of needless regulations.....

If the shoe fits, wear it.......

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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08-01-2018 02:12 AM  4 months agoPost 40
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Anyone remember “lawn darts”?... fun as hell... until a handful of retards ruined for everybody... how bout atv 3 wheelers? Same thing.
Drones... too easy to get in trouble with despite the handful that follow the rules... so apply the logic as it has to other things... take em away from everybody. You can still enjoy your aerial photography with a heli...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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