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07-08-2018 06:05 AM  78 days agoPost 1
antja

rrVeteran

Levin new zealand

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first time I have been here for weeks ,used to be on RR every day but can't make any sense of the new format, so have moved on to other sites

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07-08-2018 01:50 PM  78 days agoPost 2
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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The helicopter (site) forums remain the same minus off topics and multi-rotors. Bookmark the heli site: https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/home/
Clicking the top centered page information banner provides (go up) navigation. This is a link that sends up the page hierarchical tree ending at the RR home page.
Also consider the Scale site on the new home page. This is all a work in progress.

Mark Ryder

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07-08-2018 10:25 PM  77 days agoPost 3
antja

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Levin new zealand

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new format
when the page opens up and I click on main discussion nothing happens I get a list of options none of which are for main discussion.after being here for 11 years I find that I can't find anything . why change something that was working.

Tony.

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07-08-2018 11:35 PM  77 days agoPost 4
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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antja
why change something that was working.
I would reevaluate this assumption. While I understand your assertion that we liked RunRyder the way it was, and it appeared to have served its purpose very well since it inception in 2001, I don't know it was inclusive enough to survive without growth.

William S. Burroughs: “When you stop growing you start dying.”

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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07-08-2018 11:59 PM  77 days agoPost 5
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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It grows on you. Mark did it to expand the topics on RR. Just get into the heli section and you will feel like you are home.

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07-09-2018 12:34 AM  77 days agoPost 6
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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antja
new format
when the page opens up and I click on main discussion nothing happens I get a list of options none of which are for main discussion.after being here for 11 years I find that I can't find anything . why change something that was working.

Tony.
With the new layout helicopters are underneath aircraft.

https://rc.runryder.com/site/home/
https://rc.runryder.com/aircraft/home/
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/home/ (bookmark)

Helicopters is exactly the same as you have seen for 11 years.

There are now more Main Discussions one for each aspect of RC.
why change something that was working
There is no choice but to expand or die. RR is serious business and has to move forward.

Mark Ryder

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07-12-2018 05:15 AM  74 days agoPost 7
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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You fly RC helicopeters, not an easy task to learn.

A few new mouse clicks, or even saving a bookmark or two is not a formidable task.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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07-13-2018 06:58 PM  72 days agoPost 8
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

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It took me awile..but I get it now..I always tell people "if I can learn to fly helicopters..anybody can.."you can do this"..

I do a great decending funnel!

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07-13-2018 08:46 PM  72 days agoPost 9
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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you shouldn't have to learn how to use a leisure website. I Honestly understand adding additional topics for the sake of growth. but the traffic they see is not worth the complexity that new users want to deal with. Growth is about new users committing to the web site, If they cant find what they are looking for within the first few seconds, (yeah thats the research) they go elsewhere.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-18-2018 02:32 AM  68 days agoPost 10
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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RM3
You shouldn't have to learn how to use a leisure website.... If they cant find what they are looking for within the first few seconds, (yeah that's the research). they go elsewhere.
I'm kinda conflicted here. I see your point and I agree with it - to an extent. I get it - make it easy and they will come...

But I've never really bought into this "No child left behind" theory. I'm more of a: "Life's hard but it's harder if you're stupid." "The world needs ditch diggers too." "You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone's a bunch of dumb****s?"

To the point... not everyone was meant to be in this hobby. Despite what many were taught in the 6th grade, not everyone is destine for success at everything they try. If someone finds untangling a website a particularly arduous chore, maybe there are other hobbies better suited to their aptitudes.

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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07-18-2018 03:30 AM  68 days agoPost 11
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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wjvail
If someone finds untangling a website a particularly arduous chore, maybe there are other hobbies better suited to their aptitudes.
And that attitude is why websites nowadays fail and why Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are modern day geniuses that lead to them being icons of the modern age as well as multi-billionaires... they realized that by making things easier, intuitive, and unambiguous you could give people what they wanted before they even knew they did. If you cater only to those that need to put in effort to get a reward then you'll struggle to bring in those that may choose to go elsewhere to sites that they feel more familiar with. This game is about numbers, the more people hook into a website, the more traffic it gets and the longer they stay the more likely they are to click on a banner ad that is along the same interest as the host website which in turn benefits the the source website (ad revenue) and the hobby as a whole.

Design a site that is unwelcoming, confusing or convoluted to the newcomer and you lose the game in the long run. This all is a delicate balance, we as website developers (Im a software developer and .NET guy) have to strike a balance between user experience and website effectiveness... we have to design a website that can alter its function and appearance to accommodate not only large screens, but also smaller screens such as tablets and tiny screens such as phones, not to mention the royal PITA of dealing with 5 different web browsers and their associated operating systems. THEN we have to ensure that the design is best for our target audience, the right layout, the color selection, ease of navigation and a host of other variables.

In the end you gotta give the people what they want without alienating the potential newcomer nor the veteran user.... not an easy task. take for example this guys post: https://rc.runryder.com/t826693p1/ two days ago. This question would have been answered same day by at least a half dozen members in the original main discussion... but because of the new layout, this poor guy will likely get ignored for another day or longer cause the post is buried in an unfamiliar area to the current users. But to simply write off the response of a hand-full of visitors as simply ignorant or lazy is to ignore what could be a potentially bigger problem.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-18-2018 11:11 AM  68 days agoPost 12
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Once again I see your point and mostly don't disagree. In engineering there is an old saying that says designing something complex is easy, designing something simple is much harder.

But there is this... Some time ago I remember seeing an interview with a teenager that had a bad case of Down Syndrome (or been otherwise touched). He said he could learn anything everyone else could but that it might take him longer than others. Clearly he was repeating what the people around him had been telling him. He 100% believed that given sufficient time he could solve the mysteries of the universe. Maybe he could. But isn't that one definition of intelligence?

If you don't learn how to tie your shoes until your 35, you might have a problem. Yea you got it but it took more time to learn. I've sat in a room full of people taking upper level mathematics courses and 1/2 of them are nodding with understanding (mostly Asians). I, on the other hand, am thinking I'm going to have to go home a work on this (maybe for hours). I eventually was able to see what others saw but it took me more time and effort.

If you click on a website and your eyes glaze over and it takes too much effort to figure out, and others immediately see order, maybe it's not the website.

I agree that from the prospective of RunRyder the business, you must keep it simple to scoop up the maximum number of visitors. I'm just tired of everything being produced has to be designed to include children that should have been left behind. I'm tired of a texting and Twitter world where if communication is over 140 characters, people can't be bothered. Not every geopolitical problem can be conveyed in a 3 minute FoxNews/CNN piece. Not every device can be operated without reading the instructions.

Many things worth doing and many worth understanding will take at least a little effort.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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07-18-2018 07:03 PM  67 days agoPost 13
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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wjvail
effort.
that's the word,

here,
years ago I did put up telephone poles for a while, it's not fun in the winter with wet feet, so I can understand some one not wanting to dig ditches all their life, but this is how far man has evolved, it has become an effort to take 4 seconds to click 2 extra times

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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07-18-2018 07:19 PM  67 days agoPost 14
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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I just click on "Start Here".

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07-18-2018 07:58 PM  67 days agoPost 15
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Gearhead
but this is how far man has evolved, it has become an effort to take 4 seconds to click 2 extra times
complain and gawk all you want... I work in web development here in Central Texas... and yeah, its that bad. And If I want to keep my customers happy,
...make the web apps they use go from 4 seconds and 2 clicks down to 3 seconds and 1 click I'm hailed as a hero.

But go the other way around and I'll be strung up by my nuts in the county court yard.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-19-2018 03:40 AM  67 days agoPost 16
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I understand why some one will update their site for it to be navigated easier, that is why I said what I said

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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07-19-2018 06:55 AM  67 days agoPost 17
Daved Gutierrez

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

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I can't understand why is clicking a couple extra times so complicated for some of our fellow Helicopter pilots. I just don't get it, just bookmark the heli page, read, post, go have fun flying, driving fpving your toys.

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07-19-2018 02:32 PM  67 days agoPost 18
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Daved Gutierrez
I can't understand why is clicking a couple extra times so complicated for some of our fellow Helicopter pilots.
Then you dont understand human nature and the strategy that successful websites employ over those that go stagnant or by design end up going backwards instead of forwards.

an 'old' saying inherent to everything we do today:

There's an App for That...

I see this hobby literally going into Hospice over the next 10 years... relegated to obscurity with only a handful of dedicated websites and obscure suppliers.

how many people do you know that still build scale models of boats with balsa?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-19-2018 03:25 PM  67 days agoPost 19
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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So what's wrong with this long standing dedicated RC Heli website? Where did it go wrong? Are there others to compare? Are they actively being designed and being moved forward to work seamlessly with both desktops and mobile devices? That is, with the same none confusing interoperability? I don't think there is an app for that.

Mark Ryder

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07-19-2018 04:33 PM  67 days agoPost 20
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Mark Ryder
So what's wrong with this long standing dedicated RC Heli website? Where did it go wrong?
In my honest opinion... you stated it yourself... this primary site is no longer a dedicated RC heli Website. Look at the traffic based on posts... You still have ZERO posts in Landcraft, Drone, UAS-UAV, Contest and only 7 in 'Place', and 13 in Watercraft to date. Each topic has its own Main discussion... Aircraft has a page that then takes you to Aircraft sites... it has a "main discussion" with one post by a guy asking a question that by its very nature would have had a response day one in the original layout. By compartmentalizing every aspect of RC you also reduced the exposure one may get from a post...

Not trying to be harsh Mark, I understand the idea of grow or die in this industry... but in practice it just doesnt seem to be working out for the silent majority... I think you diluted the website too much with the layers...

If you think the OLD layout is dying its not because of design... its simply the interest in the hobby... the same is happening over on HF.
Dont know what else to tell you... honestly what were or are you trying to accomplish?
Build the Heli website? or build a RC plane website? or an all encompassing RC website? Sometimes a jack of all trades approach is not the best way to go. Id rather be great at a small hand full of things than mediocre at everything.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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