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07-04-2018 07:01 AM  16 months ago
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BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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check this out

Watch at YouTube

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being
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07-04-2018 09:38 AM  16 months ago
PaulBowen

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Australia

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That’s pretty cool. I’d probably prefer to install some super servos and a couple of sacks of potatos for ballast for maybe the first 10 hours of test flying.Quest NEO Caliber ZG, Zenoah G260PUH, CGY750, NHP 750, NHP 115.
JR Propo Ergo 30, OS 32SX-H, Edge 550, Edge 90.
Futaba T18SZ
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07-04-2018 11:02 AM  16 months ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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PaulBowen That’s pretty cool. I’d probably prefer to install some super servos and a couple of sacks of potatos for ballast for maybe the first 10 hours of test flying.
Or at least wear a helmet and some sort of training legs so the heli can't tip over!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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07-04-2018 01:39 PM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Old technology, still uses a flybar.Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-04-2018 02:07 PM  16 months ago
870heli

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Monson Ma. USA

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I don't think that's a fly bar. Stabilizer bar maybe. LOL
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07-04-2018 02:48 PM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Same thing, Buz. The paddles on the end of a R/C flybar serve no aerodynamic function. You can take them off and substitute weights and the system works exactly the same. I did this many years ago to prove it to myself.Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-04-2018 02:54 PM  16 months ago
HeliAdict

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Texas

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Wow, so we spent all that money and time tuning our fly bars and all we needed was weights out there.
Somehow I think you are wrong on this.
Look up Bell Hiller mixing.
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07-04-2018 03:36 PM  16 months ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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The airfoils at the ends of the fly bar on RC Helis is designed to change rotational axis of the stabilization mechanism as commanded by the swashplate. Otherwise they will operate as stabilization only and resist changes in swashplate position... this is why we see them as such on tiny helis like co-axialsshowing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-04-2018 03:44 PM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Trust me, it's the weights. With flybars, you went with lighter paddles for a quicker response or heavier paddles for a slower response. The paddles are at "0" pitch and even if the flybar tilts, remain at "0" pitch. The flybar paddles contribute nothing aerodynamically to the flight of the heli. Some flybars included sliding weights that you could position so as to tune the response of the system. The flybar basically functioned as a mechanical gyro in the pitch and roll axis.

The flybar also had a secondary function, due to the Bell/Hiller linkage, in that it sort of acted like a mechanical power steering thus reducing the loads presented to the analog servos that we used to use back in the day.

My initial experiments with weights go back to the mid 70's when I was flying a Schluter Heli-Baby (fixed pitch) and a Schluter Heli-Boy (collective pitch) with no tail gyros (didn't exist then) with a Kraft single-stick radio system.

Think of a Bell 47G, as this is a perfect example of a weighted flybar/stabilizer bar.
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-04-2018 04:26 PM  16 months ago
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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gmcullan The flybar also had a secondary function, due to the Bell/Hiller linkage, in that it sort of acted like a mechanical power steering thus reducing the loads presented to the analog servos that we used to use back in the day. The flybar paddles contribute nothing aerodynamically to the flight of the heli. 
Dude.. My favorite machine has no hiller mixing. The flybar is not a secondary "power steering" device. It's the only cyclic control.
"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin
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07-04-2018 08:24 PM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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If you trace out your linkage from the servo to the flybar, you will find that the mechanical advantage given to the servo lessens its workload. Not power steering in the classical sense, but the linkage does make it easier for the servo to do its job.Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-04-2018 10:40 PM  16 months ago
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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gmcullan The flybar basically functioned as a mechanical gyro in the pitch and roll axis.. The paddles on the end of a R/C flybar serve no aerodynamic function. You can take them off and substitute weights and the system works exactly the same.
Gerry.. What you say here in these posts is inaccurate.. Mine is a Bell control system. The swash controls the paddles which in turn controls the cyclic!! If I took the paddles off my Heli and replaced with weights, the damn thing would not fly... In a Bell/Hiller mix, the paddles still have some value/cyclic control. There are members here still learning this hobby!! You may want to think your comments through a little more before you chime in!!

DG
"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin
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07-04-2018 11:14 PM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Unfortunately, it is you that do not understand. "Bell" control is direct input from the swashplate to the blade gripes. "Hiller" control goes from the swashplate to a flybar/stabilizer and from there to the blade gripes. IF you look at full size helis that use(d) the Hiller system you will typically find round, aerodynamically shaped weights. Typically called "coolie" weights, please explain their aerodynamic function to me. Interestingly enough, the Bell 47 and variants of the Huey also featured these weights, thus not strictly pure "Bell" linkage.

As for my suitability to point out the above to you, please note that I have been involved with R/C helis since 1974 and full size helis since 1978.
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-04-2018 11:34 PM  16 months ago
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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I stand corrected. Mine then is a pure Hiller system (not Bell !). Never the less, without the aerodynamic paddles, the cyclic on my machine is not controllable. My machine will not fly with just weights on the flybar - There is no control over the cyclic without paddles!"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin
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07-05-2018 01:14 AM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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If you haven't yet tried and really want to shock the daylights out of yourself, take your paddles off, weight them, and install an equal weight of wheel collars on your flybar rod. Your heli will fly just fine, just like a full size Bell 47 or a Huey. Trust me. If it works for a full size heli, it will work on our models.

Good flying to you!
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-05-2018 01:32 AM  16 months ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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well suffice to say that homemade helicopter worked... looks a bit under powered and the whole thing looks sketchy, but it flew none the less.

BTW yes, you can remove the paddles and substitute weights and it will fly... BUT without the paddles MY helis cyclic rate went way down. The paddles sole purpose is to readjust the flybar to the commanded position quickly (in the case of 3D)... and then serve to help hold that position as dictated by its gyroscopic effect.

Take the paddles off a twitchy 3D heli and your 3D crack move capable machine becomes very docile.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-05-2018 01:50 AM  16 months ago
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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gmcullan If you haven't yet tried and really want to shock the daylights out of yourself, take your paddles off, weight them, and install an equal weight of wheel collars on your flybar rod. Your heli will fly just fine, just like a full size Bell 47 or a Huey. Trust me. If it works for a full size heli, it will work on our models.

Good flying to you!
If I have no paddles, how do I steer the cyclic??

https://rc.runryder.com/rr/rrpv.htm...015-03-DGOSS999

DG
"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin
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07-05-2018 02:11 AM  16 months ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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First of all, if that's your heli, it's quite a nice machine. I've been doing more and more scale, with three MD500E machines and two Super Cobra gunships.

When you move your swashplate, the gyroscopic reaction to that movement will tilt your flybar disk and thus input cyclic pitch changes into your main blades. I know I told you to try the weights to prove it to yourself, but now I fully understand your reluctance.

Given the opportunity, try it on the a 450 - 500 sized electric powered heli.

My wife loves the turbine powered helis and keeps pushing me to try one. I'm not quite ready to pull that trigger just yet. I already have a fleet of 26 helis that I regularly maintain and fly.
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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07-05-2018 02:20 AM  16 months ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Check out Colin's page for detailed information on the two types.
https://web.archive.org/web/2015070...tml/csm9-11.htm
.
Shots from his page.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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07-05-2018 02:42 AM  16 months ago
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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Ok.. So the hiller control is what I have on my turbine machine. If I replace the paddles with weights or just remove them, once the head is spinning and the flybar is sitting horizontal, what is there in the motion of the swash that will encourage the flybar change its plane?"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin
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