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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Need some help
06-12-2018 01:39 AM  6 months agoPost 1
Wmwmson

rrNewbie

Jacksonville, Florida USA

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I’ve been flying collective pitch helicopters for a couple years off and on. I bought a trex dominator 500L used with a gpro flight controller. I had my first bad crash about a month age. I put it all back together but now when I go to take off right as it lifts off it tips over and the blade hit the ground. Not good. I went though the gpro setup and everything looks and work great. I have checked and the spindle and main shaft are straight. Everything is great till right as it leave the ground. Please let me know if anyone has had this happen or knows what it might be

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06-12-2018 02:17 AM  6 months agoPost 2
fastrc1

rrKey Veteran

Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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Is your trim neutral on aileron n elevator? There usually should be no sub trim present in your radio either.

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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06-12-2018 02:21 AM  6 months agoPost 3
Damper

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Point Blank TX USA

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Hard to say since everything looks good .

So here are some suggestions that possibly help out.

1 check to see if you have any unwanted trim in your set up.

2) make sure your blades on the same degrees of pitch.

3) this is probably the culprit do not use any input on the
cyclic since the fbl unit is fighting the ground to move for that input you using. Just pop it up off the ground using no cyclic and once off use the cyclic if needs correction.

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

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06-12-2018 10:05 AM  6 months agoPost 4
Wmwmson

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Jacksonville, Florida USA

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I will check my trim settings but I believe I zeroed the trim. I have thought that I need to just pop it off the ground but I never had to do that before the crash and I’m a little worried about what it might do. Thanks for your input.

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06-12-2018 01:20 PM  6 months agoPost 5
Damper

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Point Blank TX USA

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The reason I suggested that if you have more negative pitch in this new set up you are trying to drive the heli into ground so if your negative pitch was let say -3 degrees on your original set up and now it let say you have -10 degrees you applying more down force and than necessary before and inadvertently without thinking about it adjusting the cyclic to see if you have control of the heli before it is light on the skids.

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

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06-13-2018 12:48 AM  6 months agoPost 6
Wmwmson

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Jacksonville, Florida USA

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That make sense. In the gpro perimeters there is a beginner mode. I’m not sure how it was setup before because I bought it used. I do fly 3D. Nothing hard core but it did fly really good before the crash

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06-13-2018 03:06 AM  6 months agoPost 7
Damper

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Point Blank TX USA

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Could it be a broken tooth in the servo? Just guessing now.

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

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06-13-2018 06:07 AM  6 months agoPost 8
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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right direction Damper!

Check the horns, teeth could be stripped on the horns.

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06-13-2018 10:07 AM  6 months agoPost 9
Wmwmson

rrNewbie

Jacksonville, Florida USA

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Two of the servos where striped so I replaced all three of the cyclic servos. I won’t get a chance to fly it till this weekend but I might just try and pop it up a couple feet instead of a slow takeoff

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06-13-2018 04:32 PM  6 months agoPost 10
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

Well.. You change servos... It has FBL unit... Check normal or reverse for fbl unit.

That kind of failure is gyro doing the opposite... Mean wrong corrections.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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06-13-2018 05:27 PM  6 months agoPost 11
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

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Wmwmson
I might just try and pop it up a couple feet instead of a slow takeoff
Dude, I wouldn't recommend it. It could go well but, it sounds like a mess waiting to happen honestly. I have heard of other folks doing this to prevent the gyro from fighting the ground too, but in most of those cases, something was wrong with their setups.

You should be able to input at least some cyclic correction as your heli spools up so that you can lift off smoothly and with full knowledge that your FBL gyro is functioning correctly. Of course, no dramatic inputs should be made however.

If your machine tips as you begin to lift off it could be a few very basic things you should check first:

You may have already done this...but can't hurt to make sure.

Disclaimer: I'm not implying that you are dumb or don't know what you are doing by suggesting these items...just giving you some ideas if you overlooked something.

1.) Please recheck your blades, head, and linkages. If you are reusing the blades from the last crash you may have missed some damage. Check their balance and check to make sure the weights did not come loose internally...and most importantly, please check for cracks.

This might sound obvious, but please check that the leading edge of both blades are correctly orientated. Also, if any head parts that were involved in the crash have been reused, please check them again. Even a slight bend can make life difficult for your FBL controller. Make sure there is no play anywhere. Check your dampers and check for notchiness in your bearings...these also can affect your FBL's performance.

2.) Please recheck gyro correction direction and/or reinitialize your FBL controller settings. Depending on the severity of the crash, you may need to change some settings even though you maybe appeared to have restored the original mechanical setup. Most FBL mfgs recommend re-accomplishing the entire setup if anything is changed on your head...no matter how minor the change may seem.

3.) Please try resetting your Tx settings and rebind your machine. If you are not familiar with how to setup your Tx settings then this is the time to learn and default setting for e-helis is pretty simple. Some Tx's come with sub trims and mixes preset as default when you save a new model; make sure all mixes are off and all trims and sub trims are set to zero.

Also try mechanically resetting all of your head linkages so that your head is mechanically zero'd out. Sounds tedious, but honestly, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so to do all of it and you will be able to rule this stuff out if your problem does not go away. Just remember to write down all of your current gain settings in your controller and your Tx in case you need to revert back to them.

In the end, newer FBL controllers are advanced to the point that they know the difference between intentional inputs and ground feedback so you should not have "pop" your machine off the ground to prevent a tip over. That is normally a tale-tale sign that you have a serious gyro or a mechanical problem. Logically speaking, if it tips when it's light, it will also flip in flight. You need to be able to apply cyclic corrections during spool up to execute a safe and smooth lift off.

A pilot normally allows the heli to fully spool up while closely listening to the heli and then assessing its attitude as it becomes light on the skids...if the helis sounds or feels funny, then the take off is aborted. If you just snatch it off the ground, you may miss vital feedback that could prevent an unnecessary crash.

This should get you a starting point where at least you know its not an electronic issue that's causing your problems if it persists, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if you do this, your problem will go away.

Lets us know how it goes and good luck.

Mellisa

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06-14-2018 10:10 AM  6 months agoPost 12
Wmwmson

rrNewbie

Jacksonville, Florida USA

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Thanks you for the information. Now that you say all of this I did have to reverse a couple servos in my radio. I thought that was strange. I fly with a few guys here but non of them have ever flow heli’s so I’m trying to learn this with trial and error but that starting to get expensive

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06-14-2018 09:43 PM  6 months agoPost 13
dialarotor

rrElite Veteran

Traverse City, Michigan

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Find a nearby heli guy and have some different eyes look at it and go over setup.

RapRexSynLogo Pilot

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06-15-2018 01:27 AM  6 months agoPost 14
P Johnston

rrVeteran

Ann Arbor MI

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Since you had to change the direction of servos in your tx, I assume you have everything moving the right direction on the bench.
Next pick up the heli by hand after you turn on and initialize the system. If you tilt right, it should correct by moving left. Then do nose down and up. Reverse the swash direction in gyro if wrong.

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06-15-2018 01:32 AM  6 months agoPost 15
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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I would leave the heli on the bench without touching it while you turn it on and let the gyro initialize......

Then do the tests as suggested......

Pretty sure that’s what was suggested but ... just to be sure ...

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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06-15-2018 01:47 AM  6 months agoPost 16
Wmwmson

rrNewbie

Jacksonville, Florida USA

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I’ll bet your right. Thanks for the help. I’ll try the bench test this weekend. I’ve already destroyed two sets of blade so a bench test sounds good

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06-15-2018 02:00 AM  6 months agoPost 17
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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The point I was trying to make is that you should not mess with the heli when turning on your system .....

Wait until it initializes and then pick up the heli and do the tests Johnston suggests....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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06-15-2018 02:47 PM  6 months agoPost 18
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

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Wmwmson
Now that you say all of this I did have to reverse a couple servos in my radio. I thought that was strange. I fly with a few guys here but non of them have ever flow heli’s so I’m trying to learn this with trial and error but that starting to get expensive
It's probably not as strange as it seems. You said you replaced all of your cyclic servos after the crash right? Assuming you didn't mix and match servos, I'm guessing you probably just plugged them back in to your controller differently than before....that's why you ended up having to reverse two of them.

Reversing servo direction in your Tx without telling your FBL unit what you did will cause problems as you described because your gyro does not know it is now sending corrections to what are essentially dyslexic servos.

Finding a good heli buddy can be difficult but it's worth it if you have one. The good news is you have RR. There are some very knowledgeable guys here who can teach you the basics and point you in the right direction to being a great pilot and a setup guru. Just be careful what advice you take. Not all advice is good advice. The fact that you said you already ate up two sets of blades means you probably have been following bad advice.

Bad advice = "go ahead and take off without solving the reason for the tip over....just do fast and you'll probably be okay."

Good advice = "do your bench checks and run through your setup again to make sure your gyro is functioning correctly."

I think you will be good to go after you check over your setup. Good luck.

Mellisa

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06-15-2018 05:52 PM  6 months agoPost 19
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich - USA

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On Bench Testing - ALWAYS have 2 motor wires un-plugged so motor can't take-off, & OR remove blades in case of a 'Spool-Up'. Nothing is worse than a Bench 'chicken dance'.. Not to mention bodily harm..

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06-15-2018 08:27 PM  6 months agoPost 20
P Johnston

rrVeteran

Ann Arbor MI

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Juan, thanks for the clarification. That’s what I was implying.
Dee knows to unplug motor wires from first hand experience lol!

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