RunRyder RC
WATCH
 1 page 418 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Concept 30 tail servo replacement needed to handle torque/heat/Gy401
06-07-2018 03:25 AM  4 months agoPost 1
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Any ideas on tail servo replacement. The Futaba 9254 is getting too hot for my comfort. I need a tail servo that will work with GY401 that can handle heat and torque. My 9254 servo is getting around 155F and that is just too hot. I have done everything to smooth the throw/lessen torque. The servo needs to be double the torque the 9254 to keep the temps down.

The concept is smooth and vib free, I have switched to many gyro tapes and fooled around different options. I just need a stronger servo that can handle the 2mm wire drive with little extra torque from the old style design.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 03:56 AM  4 months agoPost 2
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ds620 servo
I do have this servo....seems to have double the torque and heatsink.

Speed is slower to .09.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 04:17 AM  4 months agoPost 3
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

DS620
Performed much better....but Temps at 141F!

Outside Temp 93F

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 05:46 AM  4 months agoPost 4
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I would say that either the servo is bad or there is something else going on

That servo may blow out in fast backwards flight because its not very strong but it should not be overheating

I have used them on all kinds/sizes of machines without a heat issue
I think I have one on an old Freya with a CGY750 right now
no heat issues blowout issues yes

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 05:58 AM  4 months agoPost 5
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

banshee rider
In the beginning, I did have some weird harmonic vibes that just rung it doorbell. I was able to fix it but I suspect the frame is crap and spread vibes easily. I am using a good thick foam gyro take and pretty much stopped most of the issues. Kinda suspicious there are some unseen vibes making my tail servo get hot. The other servos including the 9252 on collective remain cool.

This has dogged me since I build this machine and it was built new.

The tail servo wire is from the Raptor 50 and it works great....just tail getting hot. I have tried Gy611/9256 from a good known working and the same issue....it gets hot!

Tried Spartan DS760 with 9254/9256 same issue.

Engine is slick smooth!

I would like to find a way to lower the temp so the tail servo lasts longer.

This is a concept 30, so no 3d or hard FF....just baby smooth easy. This doesn't explain why the tail servo is hot.

I can try a Gy520 with Bls251 to see if brushless runs cooler?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 02:14 PM  4 months agoPost 6
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you have vibes, the 251 will not run cooler.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 02:29 PM  4 months agoPost 7
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

BeltFedBrowning
The concept is very slick and smooth....I wished you were around so you can hear it for me. There is something unseen.

I was considering buying Savox 1290MG since it uses 1520 pulse/333 hertz with an operating range of 20C to 60C (140F).

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 02:39 PM  4 months agoPost 8
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

RR member expressed
That he used Savox 1290MG as a tail servo on a gasser with over 120 flights.

Gassers kill servos, but if this one can tolerate the abuse. I just placed one on order.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2018 08:40 PM  4 months agoPost 9
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

InvertedDude
RR member expressed
That he used Savox 1290MG as a tail servo on a gasser with over 120 flights.

Gassers kill servos, but if this one can tolerate the abuse. I just placed one on order.
I responded to your PM..... sorry, no experience with Savox.

But I can tell you that back in the day when the Fut 401 was popular, MANY MANY ran the Fut 9253/9254 servo without ANY overheating issues....

So, either there is something funky going on with your setup OR you wound up with a bad servo or a servo that went bad......

Edit: In re-reading this thread, I see that Banshee came to the same conclusion that I've just posted...... So, I would start looking for whatever issues are causing your over heating problem......and / or replace that servo with another 9253/54.....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-27-2018 11:21 AM  3 months agoPost 10
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Have you tried shortening the servo arm ball link distance to gain more mechanical torque and resolution? Are you regulating the servo to no more than 5v?

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-03-2018 10:57 PM  46 days agoPost 11
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Shorter arm will do as you say but drive the servo harder because the motor will need to move further and throw the arm further for the desired correction. Heat with tail servos is rarely from load on the servo motor. It comes from excessive gain, vibration, too much voltage, or some combination of the above. The wire drive isn't doing it either. One thing is absolutely for certain. Running a 9254 hot will kill it sooner than later.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-04-2018 01:07 AM  46 days agoPost 12
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I ran a 9254 for a while in a Raptor 30. It failed on me 3 times. Every time it failed I returned it for service. After the third time it failed I replaced every moving part in the tail. I found I had a bad radial bearing in one of the blade grips. It didn't begin to bind until the tail was under load. It was causing the 9254 to overheat and fail. I fired my mechanic and wrote the episode off as a learning experience.

It would be hard to blame the Futaba servo based on my poor tail setup. But, there is this - every time the 9254 failed, I installed an Airtrons 94758. I checked my flight logs and found that the substitute Airtronics servo had actually accrued 50% more flight time than the 9254 it was filling in for! While the Airtronics servo happily soaked up my poor maintenance, the Futaba failed repeatedly. I eventually concluded that the 9254 was a fine servo but it was fragile.

As for a replacement, do you have a budget?

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-05-2018 01:53 PM  44 days agoPost 13
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The main problem with the 9254 is the lack of torque so will be short lived if there is any hint of binding or in any heli bigger than a 600 if flying 3D.

I would rather use a shorter servo arm with slightly increased gain than the other way around with a 9254. Motors are designed to spin, not be stalled, so the slight extra movement is of no detriment. A shorter servo arm will still mean the motor is stalled but at much less load.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-07-2018 10:12 PM  42 days agoPost 14
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Update
I was using a 4.8v pack so fully charged would be 5.4V.

I used the Savox and it works great but gonna have to find a way to tighten the servo wire guide with more guide holders. These old machines are awesome to fly but they show their limits quickly lol! The cyclic only gives me 3 degrees LOL!

Lost interests in flying, the heat just SUCKS! Just waiting for some cryptos to the moon and the winter weather to return!

Got an Nx7 sitting on the table needing final finishes.

Thanks guys!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-07-2018 10:24 PM  42 days agoPost 15
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There is something seriously wrong with your setup if you’re getting only 3 degrees !!!!

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-10-2018 11:17 AM  39 days agoPost 16
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think the Concept 30 uses a Hiller flybar control system so it is hard or impossible to measure cyclic pitch. The cyclic pitch/power/authority is determined by how far the flybar tilts which can be altered by paddle pitch, size, weight, length of flybar and also the mixing ratio between flybar tilt and blade pitch.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 418 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Concept 30 tail servo replacement needed to handle torque/heat/Gy401
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, October 20 - 6:17 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online