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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › CDI zenoah 20cc, stator gator and GV1
10-17-2018 06:10 PM  27 days agoPost 21
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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Starter coupling in place.!!!

This weekend we are going to test again...

We run a futaba sensor that is working OK.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-29-2018 01:54 PM  15 days agoPost 22
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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This weekend I did the job.

Resume...

Posible causes...

Faulty carburator
Faulty BEC for CDI
Faulty CDi

1. We install new carburator from dle 20cc.

2. Motor started OK.
Good idle.

3. Heli don't hover. Same behavior with stock walbro carburator.

4. Try with different setting on low and high needle. No way.

5. Change BEC for CDI.
Motor started OK. No changes. Same behavior.
Helicopter don't hover.
Carburator seems to be clogged and motor without enough power.
Check filter, gas tubing and everything look OK.
No way both carburator fail.

6. Statistics Motor

158 flights
40,25 hours
47,4 liter of gas consumption.

7. I can move the crankshaft by hand... Wait a minute...

My friends, I think my zenoah 20cc is dead with only 158 flights...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-29-2018 02:09 PM  15 days agoPost 23
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Have you tried a fresh fuel mix ?

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-29-2018 02:27 PM  15 days agoPost 24
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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We test two radikal G20cc with the same gas-oil mixture.

My friend... Very happy with his helicopter.

My heli refuse to fly...

The only thing I can do is to test with another Cdi...

BTW, piston is black... It is not Good...

No power coming up from the motor...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-29-2018 05:13 PM  15 days agoPost 25
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Go back to May 13th
Almost 6 months ago I suggested you try another CDI, they do go bad on these engines. You've been everywhere but not tried the CDI yet, I tried to short cut your issues so hopefully soon you'll try one and tell us if that fixed the problem.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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10-30-2018 11:32 AM  14 days agoPost 26
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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You are right, Bort.

My friend, base on my suffer, agree to test with his Cdi from another radikal.

It is difficult for me to understand the Cdi failure.
I mean, it runs smooth on idle but at high speed refuse to work, then continue to work in idle without hesitation.

Electronic not work that way...

I am going to do such a test.

Before that, we are going to test without main blades, just for operating the motor with no load...

See you soon...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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10-30-2018 06:25 PM  14 days agoPost 27
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Don't do it
"Before that, we are going to test without main blades, just for operating the motor with no load...
See you soon..."

Do NOT operate the motor at speed with no load. Its bad for the motor and you could damage it. You need load on the engine for it to run properly. Just hover it and see how it runs. Removing the blades and spinning it up past 1/4 throttle is not a good idea. Trust me on this.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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10-30-2018 10:52 PM  14 days agoPost 28
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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rbort
Almost 6 months ago I suggested you try another CDI
Repeat after me...... "cabeza dura" ???.....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-31-2018 03:01 AM  14 days agoPost 29
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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Jajajaja... OK... OK...

Finally, Here I have the CDI... Lets do it.

Well, here my observations... Step by step.

1. We Replace old CDI zenoah with CDI zenoah that is working OK.

2. Motor started very good. Good idle.

3. Heli don't hover.
Same problem with different CDI.

4. To solve potential problem of BEC, we Replace old hextronik BEC with other castle creation BEC that is working OK. 5 volts.

5. Motor started very good. Good idle. No changes on behavior.

6. Heli don't hover.
Same problem.
Different BEC, same problem.

I see my helicopter like a soccer balloon... I almost kick it...

At this time, we check almost everything, different carburators, different Cdi, other BEC, check filter, check flow lines,... Oil and gas mixture...

One thing is left behind ... The hall sensor...
This is a small device, a transistor, who is drive by a tiny magnet on fan.

Asking to a motorcycle technician about failure on hall sensor, they explained that is similar to a clogged carburator... Motor accelerates to a certain point and then fail.

Shhh ... Toño el amable...

OK... Let do this test for tomorrow...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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11-01-2018 01:17 AM  13 days agoPost 30
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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Back to the beginning...
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/

My radikal G20 FC with zenoah 20cc refused to fly...
Motor in idle OK but rpm not increase.
Carburator... Check
Replace with other... Check
Same behavior with the two carburator!!!

Spark plug... Check
Throttle curve... Check
Stator gator... Fail.
GV-1... Reading rpm out of control... From 500 to 1500...very unstable.
Stator gator dead.
Replace with gv1 sensor.
Reading OK.

Motor is very stable, but refuse to hover.
Carburator seems to be clogged.
Gas oil mixture... Check.

CDI... Check
Change to other CDI... Check.

Motor with same behavior.

Hall Sensor... Check
Change to another sensor... Check.

Cdi and hall sensor... Check.

Motor run very smooth in idle.
The problem persists.

This afternoon, after flying, I replace clunk line. It was quite loose... Pending to do a hover with this condition.

I don't know what else to do...

Any ideas.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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11-01-2018 01:53 AM  13 days agoPost 31
KJH

rrVeteran

Interlochen, MI

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You mentioned back on page one that the insulator doesn't leak, but have you tried a new one? As you've removed the carb numerous times, it's worth a shot.

-Kevin

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11-01-2018 02:56 AM  13 days agoPost 32
helitom

rrApprentice

Pine Grove, Calif, USA

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How about taking the GV-1 out of the equation altogether. Plug the throttle servo directly into the receiver and put together a simple straight line throttle curve.

The older I get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.

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11-01-2018 11:09 AM  12 days agoPost 33
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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OK...

We are going to begin with the carburator... Again...
... And Tests the two carburator on another motor...

Our principal suspect, CDI and hall sensor, are working good.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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11-03-2018 09:00 PM  10 days agoPost 34
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Ok, glad you finally tried the ignition to eliminate that
At this time, the best thing you can do is shoot a video for me to clearly see the issue, as it might trigger my thoughts on what the next thing to do would be.

Shoot a nice 2 to 3 minute video showing you starting it, idling, trying to hover, etc. Maybe even a walk around the helicopter setup/electronics will help also.

One thought just comes to mind, did you make sure the ignition spark plug boot is firmly onto the sparkplug?

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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11-05-2018 12:24 PM  8 days agoPost 35
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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Videos are coming...

Carburator

1. Base on that carburators are running without problem in idle, I started to check diaphragm, flow control needle and lever spring.

2. First thing... I Replaced lever spring. I got two choices, a short and a large spring.
I installed a short spring, thinking on possibility that large spring is causing not to control at all.

Heli don't hover.
Same problem. Motor refused to high speed.

3. I left short spring and replace the diaphragm.

Heli don't hover.
Same problem.

4. I prepared a new and fresh mixture.
Make some changes on L and H needles, motor start very good but same problem.

I don't know what more to do.
Two carburator with same problem...?

A. Stock carburator.
B. Dle carburator, running good on a plane but not running on my heli.

I am pretty tired with this case.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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11-05-2018 01:57 PM  8 days agoPost 36
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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After Raja has a chance to review your video, it may be time to remove the motor from the heli, put a prop on it and bench run it to see what happens, dial it in , etc ....

Ps—- and you did try a brand new and properly gapped plug, right ???

And as Raja suggested, you did make sure that the plug cap/boot is fully seated , right ???

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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11-05-2018 08:23 PM  8 days agoPost 37
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Post #13
Already suggested smaller gap of.021

Might be time to check-replace piston and/or its ring.

Worse case scenario also cylinder head with gasket.

All below less than $100 worth and cheaper than a new motor or perhaps time to part heli.

http://www.davesmotors.com/wt-643-carburetor.html

http://www.activepowersports.com/ze...BiABEgLv_vD_BwE

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...HTqADdoQgTYI0QI

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...HTqADdoQgTYI2AI

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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11-05-2018 11:57 PM  8 days agoPost 38
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Replacing the spark plug with a NEW PROPERLY GAPPED plug is such an easy thing to do !

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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11-06-2018 02:15 PM  7 days agoPost 39
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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having done alot of work with Zenoahs... especially the 20cc my experience has shown me that an engine that idles just fine but will not hold full power nor RPM has an issue with ignition or has its Carb not properly set up. Its either the CDI, the CDI is not getting enough power under load. Is in particular is a big problem. Alot of pilots try to use NiCAD battery packs to run the CDI and they simply dont work very well. a Castle Creations 5 volt 10A BEC supplied by a 3S lipo is what I run most often. Other cases the Carburetor butterfly is loose, is not set properly with a given low needle setting and corresponding high needle setting.

As Suggested previously, I too highly recommend pulling the engine and placing it on a test stand with a APC propeller size 14x6. the engine should idle at around 2500 to 3500 rpms with the butterfly open about 1.5mm. A stock 20cc engine and carb should turn 14x6 prop to a maximum around 10,500 to 11,000 rpms.

an engine that has bad seals will not idle steady and will be very difficult to tune for peak power. I have seen some engines with bad front or rear seals... In one case the output shaft of the engine was not sealing against the bearing inner race.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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11-07-2018 01:28 PM  6 days agoPost 40
Rojoalfa

rrVeteran

Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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I have the same feeling... Something is wrong with this motor.

We are going to test this motor out of the heli.

As I recall...
Motor idle very good.
When I do the throttle cut, motor went off without problem, so sealing front bearing is OK.
No leaking.

At this time, motor has 168 flights... Well... The last ones with no hover at all...

/

Saludos cordiales,

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › CDI zenoah 20cc, stator gator and GV1
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