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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Drone Alliance petitions Congress to repeal 336
04-13-2018 07:50 PM  3 months agoPost 21
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Not on this thread.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-13-2018 09:02 PM  3 months agoPost 22
Ace Dude

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USA

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It's not just the Drone Alliance either:

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/F...-a4a-letter.pdf

  

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04-13-2018 09:09 PM  3 months agoPost 23
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Good find. Those dudes are bad news too.

The airline pilots are going after the wrong group. We are not the problem.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-13-2018 09:40 PM  3 months agoPost 24
Ace Dude

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USA

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It's dated 2/12/18 so it's recent as well.

  

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04-13-2018 10:45 PM  3 months agoPost 25
ChrisW

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Bonsall, CA

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It was a game on the old Howard Stern radio show...They read some crazy story and you guess if it happened in Germany or Florida...All crazy perversions seem to happen in one of those places :-)

On a serious note, reading the AMA notice, it seems the folks working hardest against the hobby segment is the commercial drone guys (not aerial photographers but delivery and other autonomous applications)...They want to lock up the entire airspace for themselves...
They need that airspace kept clear because their autonomous systems can't deal with unmapped obstacles very well... Especially
My employer is one of the companies developing some of the flight controllers and is a leader in autonomous processing with machine vision, etc.
I think the big $$ lobbying is going to be very hard for AMA to fight....but they are our only hope at this point.

CWcopter.com

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04-13-2018 11:16 PM  3 months agoPost 26
cmartin

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Kouts IN

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Not much of a concern here, Maybe for all the hardcore AMA guys that are stuck at AMA Fields but I'm in my own private flying field. They can petition all they want and I could care less. They can all go pound sand if they think that I'm gonna stop flying for some groups personal agenda.

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04-13-2018 11:26 PM  3 months agoPost 27
banshee rider

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Phoenix AZ.

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cmartin
Not much of a concern here, Maybe for all the hardcore AMA guys that are stuck at AMA Fields but I'm in my own private flying field. They can petition all they want and I could care less. They can all go pound sand if they think that I'm gonna stop flying for some groups personal agenda.
Well goody for you
but for us mortals its a concern

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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04-13-2018 11:31 PM  3 months agoPost 28
cmartin

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Fly until you get chased out, then F*&& them and go rouge.

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04-14-2018 12:12 AM  3 months agoPost 29
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I fly on my own property so I'm in the same situation but it's not about me or my property, this is much bigger. AMA and the membership has done nothing wrong, we are not the problem.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-14-2018 12:30 AM  3 months agoPost 30
Ace Dude

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USA

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Who owns the property is irrelevant. The FAA regulates the National Airspace (NAS) here in the USA.

  

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04-14-2018 12:53 AM  3 months agoPost 31
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Ace Dude
It's not just the Drone Alliance either:

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/F...-a4a-letter.pdf
I'm an airline pilot and Air Line Pilot's Association (ALPA) member - and it's not exactly by choice. Ours is a closed shop meaning that you don't have to be a member, but weather you are or not, you still have to pay dues. You can opt out of joining the union and forgo any voice but you still have to pay dues. Not exactly a choice.

Because everyone has to pay dues, ALPA has utterly stopped listing to its membership.

But it is worse than that. ALPA has been corrupted buy the management teams they are supposed to be negotiating with. We learned in the great recession of 2008 that the best way to rob a bank is to own a bank. As it applies to this conversation, the best way to negotiate with ALPA, is to be ALPA. Why would my management negotiate us when they can simply corrupt the union?

It is important to know that ALPA is not speaking for Airline Pilots. They are speaking for the management teams of airlines.

I'm off on a tangent again. Sorry for the hijack.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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04-14-2018 01:04 AM  3 months agoPost 32
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Ace Dude
Who owns the property is irrelevant. The FAA regulates the National Airspace (NAS) here in the USA.
It's not settled as far as I can tell.

https://aviation.uslegal.com/owners...-over-property/

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-14-2018 01:04 AM  3 months agoPost 33
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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wjvail
Ace Dude
It's not just the Drone Alliance either:

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/F...-a4a-letter.pdf
I'm an airline pilot and Air Line Pilot's Association (ALPA) member - and it's not exactly by choice. Ours is a closed shop meaning that you don't have to be a member, but weather you are or not, you still have to pay dues. You can opt out of joining the union and forgo any voice but you still have to pay dues. Not exactly a choice.

Because everyone has to pay dues, ALPA has utterly stopped listing to its membership.

But it is worse than that. ALPA has been corrupted buy the management teams they are supposed to be negotiating with. We learned in the great recession of 2008 that the best way to rob a bank is to own a bank. As it applies to this conversation, the best way to negotiate with ALPA, is to be ALPA. Why would my management negotiate us when they can simply corrupt the union?

It is important to know that ALPA is not speaking for Airline Pilots. They are speaking for the management teams of airlines.

I'm off on a tangent again. Sorry for the hijack.
That's good information to know.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-14-2018 02:54 AM  3 months agoPost 34
helitom

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Pine Grove, Calif, USA

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Ace Dude
Who owns the property is irrelevant. The FAA regulates the National Airspace (NAS) here in the USA.
Not so much.....Our club flys on County land. Even though we are out in the middle of no where, sooner or later there will be someone in the County bureaucracy who will determine, for whatever reason, that we are flying illegally and we got to go. Since it would be the easiest path for all in County government to agree with such a ruling, we would be gone.

The older I get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.

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04-14-2018 02:57 AM  3 months agoPost 35
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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TMoore
Ace Dude
Who owns the property is irrelevant. The FAA regulates the National Airspace (NAS) here in the USA.
It's not settled as far as I can tell.

https://aviation.uslegal.com/owners...-over-property/
Curious to see how this turns out.

  

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04-15-2018 08:06 AM  3 months agoPost 36
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Well, today at our club meeting I passed this drone alliance info and its possible consequences to our fellow members and what they choose to do with it is in their hands.

I for one will be sending Bill Nelson a heads up and thanks for his previous support, regardless of others opinions of him or this state in general. Some things are better than nothing.

Thanks for sharing and stay on topic...if possible.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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04-15-2018 04:50 PM  3 months agoPost 37
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Pistol Pete
Well, today at our club meeting I passed this drone alliance info and its possible consequences to our fellow members and what they choose to do with it is in their hands.

I for one will be sending Bill Nelson a heads up and thanks for his previous support, regardless of others opinions of him or this state in general. Some things are better than nothing.

Thanks for sharing and stay on topic...if possible.

Before you put a lot of faith in people like Nelson better take a look at the landscape and the minefield that is being laid before us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone...ism_Act_of_2017

After John Taylor won his case the Congress voted to ignore the ruling of the court and reenact Registration despite the outcome of the case.

The special exemption ends in September of 2018. You may be interested in the difference between the HR approach and the Senate approach to regulation: http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/am...ill-compare.pdf If the Senate version passes they will require testing to fly by passing an online test to get your wings. Won't that be special? Remember, this is testing done by the FAA that predominately flies aircraft with their a$$es in the seat and not on the ground. They have demonstrated time and time again how ignorant they are of model operations. These are the same folks that are advising Congressional staffers who advise members of Congress as to how they should vote. Have you ever spoken to some of these Congressional staffers? I have and a lot of them are so young and green that they can't possibly have enough experience to have a meaningful conversation about much of anything except the very tightly focused little world they personally live in. This is a huge problem, gaining real access to our representatives to have an actual discussion with them on a personal level so they understand the real issues.

There is way more money in the Drone Weenie camp than there is on our side. Facts, 82 years of safety, Organizations, how nice you are, doesn't mean squat to these folks. What they care about is getting re-elected. It's all about perception that they are getting the job done for the unwashed masses out here and making them safe while at the same time they are filling their campaign coffers with cash for the next election. They don't care how much money it takes to enforce the laws they create, how many people the FAA has to hire, how well they are trained, how they actually go about enforcing the law and the impact it has on us the taxpayer or businesses that will be affected. If you look at the average Congressman or Senator's specific knowledge on most things that they legislating it's clear they are getting advice from staffers of lobbyists and are little more than a mouthpiece once they get in front of a microphone.

AMA and those of us that still fly have our work cut out for us.

Here are the current sub committee members: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/committees/SSCM/01

https://www.senate.gov/general/comm...rships_SSCM.htm

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-18-2018 02:35 PM  88 days agoPost 38
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Hope vs Faith
TMoore
Before you put a lot of faith in people like Nelson better take a look at the landscape and the minefield that is being laid before us.
I hear you but what have you done or going to do about it?

I hope Nelson can put forth a little common sense and represent my voice and or opinion.

AMA finally sent an email about it and guess what?; Write and or call our senators.

So it seems DOOMSDAY is upon us so probably best to just get licensed under Rule 107 since the "free" sky is falling.

Prediction...
Recreation flying under 336 goes away and so does flying clubs with AMA second hand coverage. All is left is to get commercial coverage and fly in a county that hasn't knee jerk them out of the sky...yet.

On the bright side, you need to be at least 16 years old to get licensed. I'd say make it 18 where you can be trial as an adult for not following rules.

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/bl...or-ama-members/

Yup...impending doom.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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04-18-2018 04:27 PM  88 days agoPost 39
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Pistol Pete
I hear you but what have you done or going to do about it?

I hope Nelson can put forth a little common sense and represent my voice and or opinion.
First of all don't even try and put this on me. I'm neither a Congressman nor a Senator, I'm only one voice out here no different than you and furthermore don't assume I've done nothing and frankly it's none of your business what I do about it. I hear this refrain all the time from people where they say things just like you just said to me where you are trying to put the onus of action at my feet for pointing out things that a representative has said or done and are plainly obvious if you look for them. Do your own homework, I am not here to be your Google search engine nor am I willing to footnote everything that I put down here on RR. We are having a conversation not a deposition.

I'm pointing out the fact that Nelson has a track record of doing incredibly stupid and misinformed stuff. Why do I feel that way? I've seen the man in action before and seen the results myself vis a vis the HOA debacle with ARRL not to mention that ridiculous video where he paraded a multi onto the floor of the senate and preached doom and gloom. Follow the money with all these people. When you get to the end of the money trail there you will find their vote.
Pistol Pete
AMA finally sent an email about it and guess what?; Write and or call our senators.
If writing or calling worked we would be in good shape but that doesn't work because there are way too many insular layers between us and our representatives not to mention the fact that we are trying to educate folks in the process that have almost no hope of understanding the issues before us. AMA has to be bold and lay out the differences between us and them. Us and them being defined as modelers versus appliance operators of stabilized multis. I doubt that they can do that because they are trying to straddle the fence. They will have to start a visual video driven campaign that lays out how dangerous the current crop of multi drivers are and they will have to get down in the trenches to do it. That means getting in front of all the reps in Congress on their Twitter feeds, FB pages and any other social media outlet they have a presence on. That also means alienating a crop of potential members in deference to existing members and laying out whether or not the AMA is for traditional modeling or Drone Weenies. IMHO, I don't see a scenario where you can have it both ways. So far I'm not seeing that kind of campaign.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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04-18-2018 11:27 PM  88 days agoPost 40
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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TMoore
First of all don't even try and put this on me. I'm neither a Congressman nor a Senator, I'm only one voice out here no different than you and furthermore don't assume I've done nothing and frankly it's none of your business what I do about it.
Heard you loud and clear!

Sorry if you misread what was a simple question given you have no faith on dealing with senators and perhaps you could have directed me or others into other options given you are very voiceful about your hate of drones in this public forum and it's your thread to boot.

If an open discussion was not your intention to perhaps find and or share viable solutions as a group with common interest, then so be it and thats on me. I shall instead seek other positive avenues with potential options. Thanks for the original post anyways as it was ahead of the AMA email.

In the meantime, I will have a beer and watch some Netflix while waiting for dinner as its less stressful at this moment. Mmm, I smell porkchops.
Cheers!

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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