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Diabolo › Diabolo 700UL Build-Spec
03-26-2018 01:15 AM  5 months agoPost 1
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Hi Guys.

So for those with Diabolo experience, I’d like to get some input on components for a Diabolo 700UL build (first Minicopter).

For those that have flown and are familiar with the 700, 700L, or the 600, I’m interested in your thoughts.

My style is medium 3D (but my control inputs are on the hard side) so I like to build for the stresses of hard 3D ie: overbuilt!

My other preference is to keep it light. My goal is less than 11.5lbs (5.2kg) ready to fly with either 12s 3700’s or 4000’s with a flight time of at least 5-6 minutes at 1800. I have some old Gens Ace 4000’s I may start with to see how it feels weight-wise.

Initial HS would be 1200/1600/1800 (possibly up to 1900).

So far it’s:

-HKIII 4035-560 (because I have one new in the box)
-Scorp Tribunus 130A 12s (because Hobby Wing still has hard spool-up with NEO)
-R2 Super Buffer
-Mikado NEO
-VTX 697 / Rail 106
-Standard Tail Pulley
-6mm 18t pinion

-MKS HBL665’s - cyclic
-MKS HBL 880 OR 669 - tail (not sure if 669 speed & torque are enough @ 7.4v)

Also, I have some old Futaba BLS-451's and S9254 that I could use but they are a little sloppy after 1000+ flights and the 9254 might not be up to the challenge.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-26-2018 09:09 AM  5 months agoPost 2
Chris.C

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Hong Kong

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I sold my Diabolo 700 and get a 700BE. Am building the second BE.

In my opinion, the Diabolo is a very well engineered machine that can take a lot of beating. Material wise, I beleve most of the parts are CNCed from 7075 grade aluminum. Absolute enjoyable to build and to fly, hence bought a 2nd BE.

Regarding the components, NEO works very well with my BE. In my case, all are Futaba BLS servos. ESC should be enough for your 4035 motor. On the blades, it can fly blades up to 750mm if I remember correctly. I put SAB730, been flying with Scott Gray 720mm, 105 tail. Both works very good.

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03-27-2018 06:35 AM  5 months agoPost 3
HeliMan Dave

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Suburban Chicago

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Thanks Chris. I've got a 12.2lb bulletproof Logo 700 so I want to build this Diabolo on the light side.

I think if I weren't going VTX 697's, I'd go 716 Rail but I'm VERY impressed with the VTX 717's on the Logo.

I also just read that the MKS 575SL get warm on 7.4v and a fan is recommended. That being the case, I'm taking them off the list.

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-27-2018 10:38 AM  5 months agoPost 4
DemetriusUSN

rrVeteran

Virginia Beach, Va USA

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V1 Diabolo
Kosmik 160
Align 815/855 servos
KDE 445kv motor
Vbar Neo
Pulse 2s Lipo
12s or 14s

Triabolo
Kosmik 200
MKS 8’s servos
X-Era 4530-500kv motor
Pulse 2s Lipo
12s
I also have the 550, with my V1, I love big air. I’ll weigh them to find out the correct weights, I can remember and with the V1 Diabolo, I’m stretching it to an 800.

Minicopter Diabolo 800, Minicopter Triabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter 550,Compass 6hvu, Devil 380

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04-06-2018 03:46 PM  5 months agoPost 5
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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You will struggle to get 6 minutes at 1800rpm on 4000mah packs. If you only ever intend to go to 1800 rpm you can go to a 17T or even 16T actually, then you might get 6 minutes and you could use a much smaller lighter ESC (80A).

You could however use 10s 5000mah with the 18T pinion and still govern to 1800 (maybe a slight drop in the last 30 seconds of flight) then you would definitely get 6 minutes possible even 8 minutes and could still use the small 80A ESC or even dare I say it a 60A ESC! 5s 5000 also slightly lighter than 6s 4000.

The 451's would keep the weight down but I wouldn't trust the 9254 with that many flights on it.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-07-2018 03:18 AM  5 months agoPost 6
HeliMan Dave

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Suburban Chicago

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Demetrius and Richard, thank you.

I think I'm going to go with a 17t pinion. Gerd had mentioned using 18 but that was with an Xnova 4525-530

I'm going to use the new Scorp 4035-560 I have, so the 17 should put me at about the same HS.

My goal of 1800HS was just what I think I will like, and I'm only basing that on how my Logo 600SE felt at 1800. If I can get 6 min flights with 4000's, I'd be happy. If it's slightly less, that's ok.

I don't want to change to 10s as I prefer the selection and prices of 6s packs over 5s packs.

As for the ESC, I REALLY like my V-Control and the Scorp Tribunus is plug-and-play with the NEO and telemetry. I've also pulled 160A + with my Logo 700/Xnova on 12s so I don't think I'd trust anything less than a 130A ESC.

With regard to the servos, I think I'm just going to go with new:

MKS HBL665's and HBL 880

I don't feel comfortable putting my oldest servos in my newest (high-end) heli.

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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04-09-2018 03:31 AM  5 months agoPost 7
Chris.C

rrVeteran

Hong Kong

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I don't have a UL but I want to make my BE lighter as well. I finally settled down on these in my BE: 18T pinion, 500KV motor, Jive Pro 120 and 12S 4400 GenAce batteries. Rotor head spins at 1810rpm in aerobatics, less than 1400 in hovering.

Did not do anything on the airframe just swapped out my Kosmik and 5500 GenAce. I can manage to finish entire F3C routine with 17% left in the batteries.

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04-09-2018 11:26 AM  5 months agoPost 8
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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There's 5s 5000's all over the place now thanks to all the camera drones.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-11-2018 03:08 AM  5 months agoPost 9
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Yes, I see that now.

Good to know I can go down that road if I want to.

Thanks Richard!

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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04-29-2018 05:23 AM  4 months agoPost 10
Tool Man Vegas

rrApprentice

Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A

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I am about ready to get the motor for my UL. I was thinking of going with the scorpion 4035 530 with my 20 tooth pinion that came with the kit. I am going to use 12s. I would like to run around 1800ish. Can I get a recomendation on motors. I dont really get all the sizes. I would like to go with scorpion or xnova.
Thanks
Jan

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04-30-2018 01:57 AM  4 months agoPost 11
HeliMan Dave

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Suburban Chicago

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Hi Jan.

A 20t is too big for that motor and 1800HS.

According to MrMels calc., you would want about 18t. I will be running a 4035-560 and I'm going with 18t for 1800HS as the calc was borderline between 17 and 18 for my calculations and I'd rather err on the high side.

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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04-30-2018 01:18 PM  4 months agoPost 12
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Dave, I think the 18T is too big for 1800 rpm. If I have the gear ratios right, 10.9:1 for the 18T right?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-30-2018 03:35 PM  4 months agoPost 13
Tool Man Vegas

rrApprentice

Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A

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I am trying to get it with motor and gearing.

If I run a 560kvmotor with a 18 tooth pinion I get start headspeed of 2262 , end of 2011 and a lowest rec. at 1804
If I run a 530kv motor with 20 tooth pinion I get a start headspeed of 2379, end of 2115 and lowes rec at 1897.

The 530kv with 19t pinion will be 2260 start, 2009 end and lowest rec at 1802.
A 19 tooth would make the 530kv motor run the same speed as the 560kv with 18tooth.

What would be a better way to go with motor? Lower kV with bigger gear or higher kv with smaller gear?

Thanks
Jan

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04-30-2018 04:24 PM  4 months agoPost 14
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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within reason, run the smallest pinion you can with the correct kv because the shorter gear ratio gives the motor more mechanical advantage. Admittedly we are only talking about a ten or so percent difference in pinion size, but give the motor an advantage whenever you can.

Remember that with a model as light as the UL that you might not need headspeed greater than 2000 even for hard flying.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-01-2018 11:27 AM  4 months agoPost 15
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Tool Man Vegas
If I run a 560kvmotor with a 18 tooth pinion I get start headspeed of 2262 , end of 2011 and a lowest rec. at 1804
If I run a 530kv motor with 20 tooth pinion I get a start headspeed of 2379, end of 2115 and lowes rec at 1897.

The 530kv with 19t pinion will be 2260 start, 2009 end and lowest rec at 1802.
A 19 tooth would make the 530kv motor run the same speed as the 560kv with 18tooth.
In reality your head speeds will be higher than this.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-01-2018 11:33 AM  4 months agoPost 16
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Tool Man Vegas
What would be a better way to go with motor? Lower kV with bigger gear or higher kv with smaller gear?
Obviously there will be different opinions on this but I have found lower KV motors to be more efficient and larger pinions are also more efficient than smaller ones.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-01-2018 07:31 PM  4 months agoPost 17
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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OK guys, here is where I came up with the 18t pinion. Starting from the gear ratio chart that Gerd posted to Dr. Ben's HF thread recently.

It looks like I could go with a 17t pinion, but that would put me a little low if my requested HS is 1800. In addition, I'd like to occasionally go to or approach 1900 (albeit with less gov headroom).

The gear ratio to use for the 700UL is 210.2

I posted both V-Bar gov. (which is what I'm using) and Scorp gov. with both 17t & 18t pinions just for comparison. I can see if you were using the Scorp gov. 18t would be too high.

Comments?

Diabolo 700UL / Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Oxy 2 / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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05-02-2018 10:39 AM  4 months agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Ah right, sorry, I got the gear ratio wrong! I got the gear info from here: https://rc.runryder.com/t683496p1/ but I see it is an old thread! You are correct with 18T then if your gear ratio is correct.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-02-2018 10:44 AM  4 months agoPost 19
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Wait, Mr Mels calc says Minicopter Diablo is 196.3??? I'm confused! haha.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-02-2018 12:44 PM  4 months agoPost 20
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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No, the 600/700UL is 210.2:1.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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