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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Horizon Hobby bids to buy Hobbico
03-27-2018 02:00 PM  5 months agoPost 21
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Frank Bostwick
I’ve beat this drum for years....DONT BUY DIRECTLY FROM CHINA, Doing so does nothing to support this hobby in this country and is very short sighted. Doing so supports China. Buying from a State side supplier supports State side employees, a tax base that pays for police, fire and infrastructure and the very people who make this hobby great.
I'm sorry Frank. This ain't gonna happen. Hobbico buys from Japan, marks it up and then tries to sell it to me? I'm no fool. I'm buying from Japan. Notice Hobbico isn't selling US products. They are selling marked up foreign products. My days of charity to support a failing business model are over.

I just bought my 4th OS 1.05 last week. Direct from Japan was 10 days. The last order from Tower took 5 days to ship. You're not suggesting I pay a mark up of $140 are you?

-- $530 from Tower.
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...?&I=LXBUUE&P=ML

-- $395 from Japan.
https://www.rcjapan.net/index.php?m...79ktbf212959bp5

America doesn't make things. Walmart doesn't make things. Amazon doesn't make things. Hobbico is an import business. They buy things overseas (China), marks them up, and sell them to you and I. I've got a better idea. Why not buy direct from overseas?

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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03-27-2018 02:17 PM  5 months agoPost 22
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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Where it’s made is not the issue, the only thing in our control is where we buy it and what our dollars can or can not do,but I can see my POV won’t fly here. So y’all go ahead and save pennies buying from the thieves who run hobby king. One day soon you will have no other option and I wonder what the prices will do then? Good day all, go fly.

RIP ROMAN

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03-27-2018 03:08 PM  5 months agoPost 23
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Frank Bostwick
Where it’s made is not the issue, the only thing in our control is where we buy it and what our dollars can or can not do,but I can see my POV won’t fly here. So y’all go ahead and save pennies buying from the thieves who run hobby king. One day soon you will have no other option and I wonder what the prices will do then? Good day all, go fly.
Frank... A few years ago my airline made a quick lap through bankruptcy. I lost 100% of my pension and 40% of my pay. For 10 years prior to bankruptcy the company had been contributing to my 401K in its stock - that, of course, went to zero.*

None of this had to happen. All it would have taken would have been for people to pay more for airline tickets. As it turns out, the number one trump card in airfares is cheep. If people would have simply paid more for their tickets, I could have paid more in taxes and been better able to support Hobbico and my local fire & police departments. My local schools would have been so much better off if people simply would have chosen the more expensive airfare.

Time has passed. I've adapted to the new reality. Part of that is, I can no longer afford to not pay attention to how much I spend on this hobby. The days of tithing to Hobbico have passed. If you'd like me to spend an extra $140 for an engine*, buy the pricey airline ticket next time.**

Bill

* I might add that $400 for a 90 class engine is already ridiculous. There is more than enough markup for everyone to eat. I don't need Hobbico to put it in a metal building before mailing it to me for an additional $140. Apparently a glow engine can be brought to market for a 100 bucks. Somewhere, someone is making $440 on every 1.05 Hobbico sells.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/asp-s91...low-engine.html

** Just so that it's not missed - I don't actually expect anyone to price shop for airfares and simply buy the most expensive ticket so that I can pay more in taxes to support the local chamber of commerce. Much of this post is factual but there is a layer of sarcasm too.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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03-27-2018 03:13 PM  5 months agoPost 24
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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But you make a valid point that puts "some things" in perspective.

Steve

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03-27-2018 03:45 PM  5 months agoPost 25
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Frank,
I am sorry, that was the old model. Times change. I do wish you well. VJ said it better, but paying a merchant to stock and distribute is old line. Just look at Amazon. When the shipping is a day away, why not go to national system to get exactly what you want vs. what just happens to be in stock at the local store. Breaking the old mold. We as Americans need to find our best attributes and sell those to the world to return our capital.

Frank you are a great guy. Why don’t you find a friend willing to order from China for you and you pay him the 100% markup? See how much sense that makes. You will find a lot of willing friends. No matter what, I do see and respect your point of view.

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03-27-2018 04:42 PM  5 months agoPost 26
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Amazon, pays taxes, has employees here in this country. I have zero problem with change or Amazon. My point is for you and me, it’s very short sighted to buy from, that is send your purchasing dollar directly to mainland China where it benefits only China. If we keep doing that, the end result will be less choice, poorer quality, and longer waits not to mention less police, fire, ems, employed folks. A few more dollars a year is well worth it. A few more dollars a year is making your dollars work a hell of alotharder for you. It is about getting the most value out of your spending.

RIP ROMAN

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03-27-2018 06:23 PM  5 months agoPost 27
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Frank... I'm going to help make your point.

In 1974/5 I worked for Ron and Betty Ford at Campbells Hobby Shop in Oklahoma City. Every city in America had one or more independent local hobby shops. Campbells had long cases containing a wide assortment of engines. The shelves behind the counter had many radios to choose from. There were many, many kits and a wall full of neatly arranged balsa wood for us scratch builders. There were mountains of MonoKote and Solartex covering. Of course you could buy silkspan or silk and there was plenty of dope in a wide assortment of colors. We had both kinds, Nitrate and Butyrate.

Modelers would come in sometimes 3 or 4 times a week to look in the cases and see what was new. They'd come in, drink a pop and tell stories from the flying field. This was all accross America. 1,000s of hobby shops and tens of thousands of jobs were part of the infrastructure.

But there was a serpent in the garden. A new wave of evil was coming and if not stopped, it would put the local hobby shop out of business. If the trend continued, modelers would be forced to buy from this upstart simply because it would become the only choice. The battle cry went up - "Stop buying from these people you fools! They are evil and killing the hobby!"

Want to guess who this satin is?

Yea. No secret. By the late '70s Tower had 10 full pages in the RCM. As it turns out, those people that were shouting mail order was going to kill the mom and pop hobby shop were right.

Ironically it is the very people that put the local hobby shop out of business that are struggling now. Now the battle cry is to "Buy from the US importer and keep American jobs." Given that I grew up with a hobby shop in every city I lived in, is it reasonable to expect me to have great compassion for the people that killed them?

How does this help make your point? We learned we could save 20% by cutting out the LHS and using mail order. Exit LHS. Time passed and we are learning we can save 20% by bypassing the US importer. If this doesn't stop, exit US Importer.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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03-27-2018 06:55 PM  5 months agoPost 28
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Dont buy directly from China...
Frank

Rest assured that all these guys buying directly overseas are filing and paying their fare share of taxes on imported goods when applicable and when the taxman cometh, yeah...

Watch at YouTube

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-27-2018 07:45 PM  5 months agoPost 29
CADGuy68

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USA

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Actually, Amazon doesn't pay taxes like they should:

https://itep.org/amazon-inc-paid-ze...om-new-tax-law/

They shorted the U.S. out of around $2+ billion last year, based on their $5.6 billion in profits. Plus, they received an additional $789 million tax break for (payments deferred from) prior years. Perfectly legal, Luxembourg, recent corporate tax cuts, blah blah blah ...

Sorry - didn't mean to butt-in, just saw Amazon mentioned while lurking

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03-27-2018 08:10 PM  5 months agoPost 30
w8qz

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Grand Rapids, MI - USA

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[Cool to see that particular cover of RCM - with my buddy's pattern plane design, the 'Utopia'. Have a set of plans for that, and hope to build one someday (the 'ol classic baseball bat with wings' ) ]

"The helicopter is much easier to design than the aeroplane, but is worthless when done."

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03-27-2018 08:51 PM  5 months agoPost 31
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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No secret amazon asks for and is gladly granted tax abatements. Is that right or wrong? A good question for another day, but it’s all done with due process. Don’t forget the people they employ pay taxes on the earning they make......buying on this side of the Pacific Ocean leverages your dollars to support not only this hobby but this country. Spending your dollars in the Far East supports those country’s. Not complicated. So yes spending 10-20% more here, is the best value for you.

RIP ROMAN

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03-27-2018 11:14 PM  5 months agoPost 32
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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When buying from overseas, you just have to decide if you are willing to go without a warranty and in some cases any service at all. The service liability is especially true for things like transmitters. I know of a gentleman who purchased an expensive radio from an overseas dealer and had a problem and could get service from neither the US importer nor the manufacturer because the the fact the radio lacked the FCC sticker and had been purchased outside of the manufacturers designated supply chain. For some goods, parts are ubiquitous and service is not so much a specialized area. For other items, choose thoughtfully what you source from overseas and make sure that whatever you save offsets the possibility of having a breakdown with no recourse.

One other detail too. The Yen is relatively weak against the USD, so overseas dealers are very competitive. Several years back when the Yen was stronger, the savings were often a wash, especially after factoring in shipping and card fees.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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03-28-2018 02:27 AM  5 months agoPost 33
Mikerobe

rrVeteran

Green Turtle Cay,Abaco, Bahamas.

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You can have your government do what ours does to us: I pay 45% Bahamas Customs Import Duty on all of my heli items. This duty is calculated after the final invoicing...that is, the price I pay delivered to my courier in the US, plus the cost of shipment to me here, plus all paperwork processes and then finally 7.5% VAT on everything totaled! Bet every American would think twice about buying abroad!

The lot I got is not a lot, but I thank God a lot for the lot I got!

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03-28-2018 02:44 PM  5 months agoPost 34
reddragon

rrElite Veteran

Brooklyn, N.Y.

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Interesting Post.

Wayne - Fly it like you stole it! You're in good hands with Runryder!

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03-28-2018 04:37 PM  5 months agoPost 35
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Heli_Splatter
Frank you are a great guy. Why don’t you find a friend willing to order from China for you and you pay him the 100% markup? See how much sense that makes. You will find a lot of willing friends. No matter what, I do see and respect your point of view.
I meant to get back to this soon... This is really a good analogy. I'd be willing to accept these terms and more than happy to pay 30% taxes on the unexpected income. With the remaining 70% I be equally happy to buy myself more toys.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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03-28-2018 10:21 PM  5 months agoPost 36
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Did anybody hear any news today of the Auction? It sounds like they sold the Estes side of the business for $6mil to someone in Denver. No news on Revel US and Germany.

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03-29-2018 01:34 PM  5 months agoPost 37
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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No. I don’t have any news but I’ll be waiting and listening. If you hear something please post.

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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03-29-2018 03:32 PM  5 months agoPost 38
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I read this morning that the auction has happened. The bankruptcy judge will review the bids this coming Monday and decide whether or not to approve the sale.

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03-30-2018 04:50 PM  5 months agoPost 39
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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Alright lets clear up all the usual speculation, misinformation and FUD..

First if you want to know what really happened its ALL in the bankruptcy docuemnts. I downloaded them and posted:
https://rc.runryder.com/t823444p2/?p=6691915#RR

Secondly, Hobbico is NOT just a reseller of Japanese products. Besides OS and Futaba, they also have lots of wholly owned brands for cars, planes, model rockets (Estes), etc... and many of them actually have production in USA - all the Great Planes and Top Flite builders kits (not ARF) are made in USA. They also carry the Sig line which is USA made other than their ARFs. And so forth...

Horizon actually has less made in USA products than Hobbico I believe. All the Spectrum electronics and E-Flite stuff is made in the far east. Their entire plane lineup is far east manufactured ARFs. They sell Saito, Zenoah and Evolution engines with are all made in the far east and eastern Europe.

And if you dont want to buy Japanese products form a reseller... well where JR buyers skipping Horizon or JRUSA back in the day and going direct? riiiight. Going direct can save a buck (I do it for servos) but there are potential pitfalls, including hte fact the USA service center wont help you.

Third- I think Horizon buying Hobbico is the IDEAL outcome. They are the biggest other player in this market and will actually know what to do with teh business.. Any other entity like a private investor group would be likely to just liquidate it. I just hope that Horizon doesn't kill off the kit lines and wonder what will happen with Futaba... will they go off and find another USA distributor?

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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03-30-2018 08:21 PM  5 months agoPost 40
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Secondly and thirdly... how is that not personal opinion and more FUD? Just saying.

I think Futaba will probably work with Horizon. Horizon would not just walk away from a money maker, unless their agreement with Spektrum strictly precludes it.

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