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Home › ✈️Aircraft › 🚁Helicopter › Helicopter Main Discussion › To all heli manufacturers (personal rant)
03-01-2018 08:24 PM  35 months ago
0Post 41
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Fly what you got, just don’t tell me that I can’t fly because I am using FBL equipment. Btw I fly both, but prefer FBL.
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03-01-2018 08:37 PM  35 months ago
0Post 42
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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You don't have to fly 3D to enjoy the benefits that only a FBL unit can offer such as a stable control and bailout. spending time, paying attention
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03-02-2018 03:39 PM  35 months ago
0Post 43
Ken Filloon

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Highland, Michigan

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How many can say they have their FBL controller set up perfect?
How long did it take you to get it perfect?
How many know when it is not perfect?
The new guy does not have a chance without help.
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03-02-2018 03:57 PM  35 months ago
0Post 44
870heli

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Monson Ma. USA

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Please bring back Fly Bar heli's. Yes that would be cool and I would buy one. I think the Manufactures are doing the best they can. They need to make money or there will be no Kit's. I have been doing this a long time and miss some of the older heli's.
I remember when 3D came a bought. We had fly bars and I still can't fly like the good guys did back then. And I have FBL's heli's now.
You can argue back and forth and everyone has an opinion. And that's great but there are a lot of really good heli's out there you can buy.
Think I will go shopping.
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03-02-2018 04:11 PM  35 months ago
0Post 45
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Ken Filloon The new guy does not have a chance without help.
Mostly it's all in the manual but us guys don't like following manuals sometimes! 60% of the time, it works every time!
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03-02-2018 04:58 PM  35 months ago
0Post 46
ChrisO

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Barron, WI USA

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The biggest mistake the RC helicopter business has made, IMO, is targeting like 95% of their marketing to the 3D crowd. Which is a niche market in the big picture of RC. The result is that the RC helicopter business is only a shadow of what it once was during the heyday of pistons, flybars and inexpensive. And it is now in survival mode. Most people have gone to multi-rotors that are much cheaper and simpler and the much bigger market for VTOL RC aircraft is UAV's not 3D.

It's FBL and electric with LiPo batteries that has driven the cost off the charts for RC helicopters.

I use my bigger heli's for UAV's and they have to have piston power because can't afford to fly it with batteries. And I would prefer flybar over FBL because the old flybar is more inherently mechanically stable - it doesn't need gyro stabilization and damping for the head. While the FBL is ok on my 766, it does NOT match my old 700 flybar for silky smooth stability being flown with an autopilot on one hour long, 25-30 mile survey flights. But we got what we got because of the choice of the RC helicopter business to target a niche instead of considering the big picture.

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03-02-2018 06:13 PM  35 months ago
0Post 47
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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ChrisO The result is that the RC helicopter business is only a shadow of what it once was during the heyday of pistons, flybars and inexpensive.
I do agree mostly to what you are saying ,but helis.....ESPECIALLY helis were never inexpensive back in the day.

In fact, I believe they were in the most expensive tier in the hobby, which is why the heli market was so small and there so few pilots before technology drew the prices down and made RC helis attainable to a larger segment of the RC population.

Remember when 90 class kit alone used cost no less than $1200? I do. Now, heli's are fairly cheap to buy with the average 90/700 kit costing between $700 to $900. However, now you pay more for equipment than the actually heli. Where as the heli, itself, used to be the bulk of the expense. But it's never been cheaper to get into a heli than it is now.

In any case, cost should really never be a factor since this is just a hobby. It cracks me up every time I hear guys complaining about how expensive the hobby is. Hobbies are by nature, expensive. That's why they are hobbiesMellisa
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03-02-2018 06:31 PM  35 months ago
0Post 48
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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Unless you were buying JR or Vario, there were plenty of cheap helis back then. A few of the affordable helis were the Raptor 30, LMH 110, and Ikarus Eco
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03-02-2018 07:10 PM  35 months ago
0Post 49
ChrisO

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Barron, WI USA

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Ladymagic Remember when 90 class kit alone used cost no less than $1200? I do.
Some were high-buck. But most could be put together for no more cost than an airplane.

When the first guys experimented with FBL heads, we used to go hide behind the truck to watch because this is gonna be really cool - but we don't want to be anywhere near it. Some guys actually got those to fly pretty decent with no gyros. Those were the good old days. You could get kits for $500, rob the engine off the Toro weed whipper explaining to your wife that it's junk and we NEED a new weed whipper anyway. And just have fun with it. What killed most of 'em was a failed servo at some point.

Then everything had to get quicker faster. But not necessarily better.
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03-02-2018 07:17 PM  35 months ago
0Post 50
Ace Dude

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USA

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ChrisO You could get kits for $500
Which $500 kits are you referring to?  
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03-02-2018 07:30 PM  35 months ago
0Post 51
Ace Dude

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USA

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ChrisO The biggest mistake the RC helicopter business has made, IMO, is targeting like 95% of their marketing to the 3D crowd. Which is a niche market in the big picture of RC. The result is that the RC helicopter business is only a shadow of what it once was during the heyday of pistons, flybars and inexpensive. And it is now in survival mode. Most people have gone to multi-rotors that are much cheaper and simpler and the much bigger market for VTOL RC aircraft is UAV's not 3D.

It's FBL and electric with LiPo batteries that has driven the cost off the charts for RC helicopters.
I completely disagree. I started in the hobby when a nitro 30 or nitro 60 were the only options. IMHO there have never been more options, more price points, and more reliable equipment available in the hobby.

If you don't want electric and FBL then don't fly it. There is literally tons of used nitro FB machines collecting dust in basements and garages all over the world. Why not capitalize on it and you'll have enough spares to last a lifetime?  
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03-02-2018 07:36 PM  35 months ago
0Post 52
old nitroman

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Naples florida

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I have a few fb machines I don fly them, too much a pain in the a$$, transporting them always worried about give then a slight bend. No thanks, helis look so clean with out them. See beautiful scale ship then see this big fb head. ahhh or maybe bring back the woodies blades, I hated them too. Do you see a real helicopter with paddles on it?E5s and E7se,and a 766, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380and 420 ,180cfx
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03-02-2018 07:56 PM  35 months ago
0Post 53
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Ken Filloon How many can say they have their FBL controller set up perfect?
How long did it take you to get it perfect?
How many know when it is not perfect?
The new guy does not have a chance without help.
I can say my FBL unit is set up the way I like it.
It takes less time than a flybar to set up .
I can tell it is set up properly when the swash corrects in the right direction.
All a new guy has to do is read the instructions.spending time, paying attention
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03-02-2018 08:57 PM  35 months ago
0Post 54
Ken Filloon

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Highland, Michigan

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There's more to it than getting the direction right. Try setting up a CGY 750
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03-02-2018 10:52 PM  35 months ago
0Post 55
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Ken Filloon There's more to it than getting the direction right. Try setting up a CGY 750
This may be why the ikon and brain being so popular. They are very easy to setup.
.
I have a skookum 540 that sits in drawer because it was difficult to tune. same with a beast x I don't like how it works so it sits collecting dust.
Find a FBL unit you are able to setup and like and you will never look at another flybar again.

I recently got a few flybar 500 esp. And a few 250's also with flybar. After doing the setup on them I was surprised at all the flybar interaction and poor geometry. At full elevator the flybar tilts full right and the vibrations it caused. How people ever flew these relics.
Before you go accusing me of not knowing how to setup a flybar. My first Heli was a nitro flybar in 2006 and have been flying since.spending time, paying attention
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03-02-2018 11:25 PM  35 months ago
0Post 56
Ken Filloon

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Highland, Michigan

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I was just saying why you don't see new people getting into the hobby.
It's not easy anymore.
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03-02-2018 11:27 PM  35 months ago
0Post 57
ChrisO

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Barron, WI USA

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Ace Dude If you don't want electric and FBL then don't fly it. There is literally tons of used nitro FB machines collecting dust in basements and garages all over the world. Why not capitalize on it and you'll have enough spares to last a lifetime?
I have some of those. And I snap up them up on craigslist when I see one there.

I had a Kalt Hughes 500. It was just after we got married, so probably in 1980 or 81 or so. I was a commercial pilot but I flew it when I was home. My wife actually flew it way more than I ever did. Until she broke the starter belt and I was too busy to fix it. And then we had kids and lost interest. And finally sold it.

But it's a matter of perspective because at the time I bought that Hughes 500 there was well over 50 manufacturers of RC helicopters. Hardly none of them cost more than $500. And none of them put together "combo kits" from spare vacuum cleaner parts with a bunch of stuff in it you don't want. To build today what we could get then is in the $2,000-3,000 price range. And if you think the modern ones fly any better than that old Hughes 500 I had, you'd be wrong. It even had real flapping hinges on it - genuine Bell-Hiller head. And it flew awesome smooth.
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03-02-2018 11:31 PM  35 months ago
0Post 58
jbjones

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Columbus, Mississippi

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Ken Filloon I was just saying why you don't see new people getting into the hobby.
It's not easy anymore.
I do not agree. It's easier than ever. Cheaper than ever too.

Why new folks aren't coming into the hobby isn't because of either of those metrics.J. B. Jones
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03-02-2018 11:51 PM  35 months ago
0Post 59
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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ChrisO
Ace Dude If you don't want electric and FBL then don't fly it. There is literally tons of used nitro FB machines collecting dust in basements and garages all over the world. Why not capitalize on it and you'll have enough spares to last a lifetime?
I have some of those. And I snap up them up on craigslist when I see one there.

I had a Kalt Hughes 500. It was just after we got married, so probably in 1980 or 81 or so. I was a commercial pilot but I flew it when I was home. My wife actually flew it way more than I ever did. Until she broke the starter belt and I was too busy to fix it. And then we had kids and lost interest. And finally sold it.

But it's a matter of perspective because at the time I bought that Hughes 500 there was well over 50 manufacturers of RC helicopters. Hardly none of them cost more than $500. And none of them put together "combo kits" from spare vacuum cleaner parts with a bunch of stuff in it you don't want. To build today what we could get then is in the $2,000-3,000 price range. And if you think the modern ones fly any better than that old Hughes 500 I had, you'd be wrong. It even had real flapping hinges on it - genuine Bell-Hiller head. And it flew awesome smooth.
Hard to believe there was well over 50 manufacturers of RC helicopters in 1980/1981. How many can you name?

Now, if we take your $500 kit from 1980 and adjust for inflation we get $1,593. Considering the vast majority of kits available today are well below $1,593 I'll maintain that R/C helis are better and cheaper than ever.  
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03-03-2018 01:29 AM  35 months ago
0Post 60
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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ChrisO And none of them put together "combo kits" from spare vacuum cleaner parts with a bunch of stuff in it you don't want.
Too bad I still have a Kirby Heritage II vacuum purchased in 86, otherwise my Align 550 would be flying now. ~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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