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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › To all heli manufacturers (personal rant)
02-27-2018 05:25 PM  8 months agoPost 1
bulldogs

rrElite Veteran

~OC~ ,CA USA

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Please bring back the flybar!!

Personally I was very invested in the hobby back in the day when the 401 gyro was hot and the 520 just came out. I owned up to 6 helis back then and had a great time. Then technology came along and my simple hobby got more complicated and costly. Part support for the flybar stopped and I sold out. Because of the fbl and due to the fact that being color blind and not being able to see the red or green lights made flying and tuning a $1000 heli a bit stressful. I know the technology has come along quite well and there are different fbl units that I could buy to overcome my limitations but a simple flybar and support would bring me and my $$ back to this great hobby.

Thanks

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.

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02-27-2018 05:59 PM  8 months agoPost 2
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Here you go....

I'm sure John will appreciate your order !!

http://Www.audacitymodels.com/Produ...02/Default.aspx

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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02-27-2018 06:48 PM  8 months agoPost 3
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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I have bought 27 helis in the 25 years I have been in the hobby, all of them have been flybarred. Never been inclined to learn FBL. I like the mechanics of the rotor head and FBL has less of it.

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02-27-2018 06:56 PM  8 months agoPost 4
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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I tried my first FBL unit (black vbar) back in '06 and knew within the first minute that the hobby had changed--for me at least. It was an expensive peek in to the other side. But, I knew right away all of my flybared helis were instantly obsolete. And, they were.

Of course, I wasn't as nearly a seasoned pilot as I am now. I had only been flying for 2.5 years at that point. I couldn't really tell the difference between brands of blades, or different disc loaded models back then, or even how to really tune a nitro heli.

So, at the beginning of the year I found a used trex 700 nitro pro--the very first one--the first 700 I ever flew. Still had the original 91hz, and flybar, and JR7703D gyro. I thought it would be a good throwback to the good old days. And, it was something interesting to fiddle with for a while, since all my other helis settings have been set and forgotten long ago. It would give me something to tinker with.

Amazingly, it all came flooding back. Adjusting all the mixing arms, and swash mixes, and paddle leveling, and centering, and tail gains, etc. It was almost like I never stopped. I flew the first gallon getting the old motor tuned up, and the mixes dialed in for roll and flip rates. And, ignoring all my other helis during this time, I thought I was in a pretty good spot.

So, the next weekend I brought the full fleet. Flew the nitro first and it was just like I remembered--a pretty good spot. Then, I spooled up the Logo 700. Oh boy. Ya. This is what I remembered from '06 when I first tried the vbar.

That flybar crap is for the birds. I went home and ordered all the flybarless parts for the head and a Neo and converted it over that week. What a difference. It really didn't make sense to me to waste fuel at $30/gallon with the flybar. Good riddance.

Probably not what you were wanting to hear. But, I just don't have a place for a flybar in my life.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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02-27-2018 07:09 PM  8 months agoPost 5
Jamovich

rrVeteran

Bangalore, India

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Bye bye flybar...fbl has allowed me to push my limits without the fear of crashing (unless I do something purposefully dumb)

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02-27-2018 07:28 PM  8 months agoPost 6
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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Cudaboy, that was a great write-up. Why didn't you like the flybar? Nobody ever really explains why they don't like flybars. They, at times, just resort to insults and personal attacks so they don't have to bother explaining. "I am so much better at 3D" doesn't have any explanatory powers. I have heard that so many times. Since your post was so eloquent, I was hoping you could share a bit with me/us.

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02-27-2018 07:29 PM  8 months agoPost 7
Jamovich

rrVeteran

Bangalore, India

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Rescue and the Heli does what you tell it to do

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02-27-2018 07:31 PM  8 months agoPost 8
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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I like the unpredictability of a flybarred helicopter. Maybe I have been doing it too long!

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02-27-2018 07:31 PM  8 months agoPost 9
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Troy, IL. 62294

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Less moving parts and an all inclusive Rx, usually motor/engine GOV, tail gyro and flybar all in one little box called a FBL controller.

I am one that does like a lot of things the "old" way. But when I removed the AR8000, CYB GOV, CSM 400 tail gyro and all the flybar head parts and installed a SK540 red FBL controller, I had so much extra room under the canopy and removed 90% of the wiring, I was sold on FBL.

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02-27-2018 08:34 PM  8 months agoPost 10
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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I like both...
FBL is great on my gasser... because it takes care of drift and all kinds of weird behavior the FB system couldnt fix... its more locked in. In my electric... FB, cause it doesnt need it.
BUT
FBL is bad when it breaks...and when one of the gyros decides to have a $hitfit... your heli is strongly attracted to the ground overriding your TX.

Ive never had a FB machine hit full cyclic on the ground when spooled up... ever.

they really should have both options...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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02-27-2018 09:27 PM  8 months agoPost 11
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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BeltFedBrowning
Cudaboy, that was a great write-up. Why didn't you like the flybar?
Well, for one I never could get a flybar to respond as quickly as I liked--even as a beginner. If I command full right aileron--I want it to get up and go. With a flybar you need to get super light paddles (The helicopter I just set up had the CY stubs, which are very good paddles); But, you also need to lengthen the flybar. The Trex 450 and 600 both offered longer flybars than stock which got me *close* to a decent flip/roll rate. But, the 700 never offered a longer flybar. So, the best I could do was light paddles and maxing out the swash mixes until they were just about binding and add in negative expo to get it to jump off center. Not ideal--but on the Trex head anyway, that's all the adjustment offered.

Then, there's the phasing. Some of the higher-end helis like the old Hirobos, Avant, and some others I'm sure I'm missing--had adjustments for phasing. The Aligns never have.

Finally, there's the precision. Some people in the beginning of the FBL revolution complained about it. Called it 'too robotic'; or claimed that correcting the other surfaces for interactions was just part of flying.

I disagreed, and still disagree. With a properly set up FBL (which the vbar is 99% dead on out of the box IMO) there are no interactions. You put the heli in an orientation, and you can fly through it in that orientation until you command it out.

On my last flight of the gallon with the flybar on this most recent heli there was a little wind (10-12mph guess) the bird was all over the place. I mean--not out of control. Just really bad interactions, less than ideal flip and roll rates, and poor phasing. In the wind, if I just did a simple punch out from horizontal and pushed it in to a flip, the tail would hold fine, but it would come out the other side with a significant amount of roll.

I walked over to the workbench and said out loud that was the last time this heli would fly on a flybar. Sure, I could spend another gallon or two trying to tweak things out and putting in some compensation mixes. But, why? Like I said--fuel is $30/gallon for 30% where I am. And, when I know I can slap on a FBL head for less than $100 and put on a NEO and use my vcontrol radio and everything will be perfect--it's a no brainer.

And, it was. The NEO is absolutely fantastic on this nitro. The 91hz doesn't have quite the power the Logo700 does on a 4525-525 12s setup. But, not by much. It can do every single thing I'm capable of throwing at it. Super snappy rolls and flips. Every stop is right on the mark. No hint of bogging the head because I have the swash mix maxed out.

I wanted a nitro back in the fleet because I missed 7 minute flights. And, it has filled that hole. But, I don't need the flybar any more. I think we've grown past it. It was fun for a quick trip down memory lane. But, not for something I want to fly regularly that costs $5-6 in fuel per flight.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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02-27-2018 09:28 PM  8 months agoPost 12
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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I got rid of the flybar because I am lazy and impatient and disliked the hours of rebuild/setup time associated with the mechanical "complexity" of a flybar heli relative to a FBL heli.

Oh and because FBL is much more efficient with the electric power (no flybar and paddles to whip around)

Steve

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02-27-2018 09:33 PM  8 months agoPost 13
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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you say lazy. I say waste of money. I'm not telling you to sell your flybars. I'm just telling you why I sold mine.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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02-27-2018 10:23 PM  8 months agoPost 14
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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Flybars and nitro all the way for me. I gave flybarless a try for a couple years, still have one Logo but it's gathering dust. I'll keep it rather than give it away in case I change my mind My advice to the OP is pick an airframe you like that still has parts available online and stock up.
I don't have one but Audacity has a great reputation for support after the sale if your looking for a new machine.

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02-27-2018 10:51 PM  8 months agoPost 15
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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"Lazy and impatient". Now that's a straight answer! I love it. Best post of the day!!!

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02-28-2018 01:13 AM  8 months agoPost 16
Dirtpen

rrNovice

Illinois

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I guess that's when I bailed out too. Flybarless, I havnt flown one(yet) so I can't say anything on that. I flew a n9 with solid g , talk in 07 08 flyb arless coming up and out. Never crashed the damn thing after all those yrs the plastic tailgrip let a blade go . 25 more feet and the auto I was in wouldn't have hurt. That put me in the crown gear boom situation. I was done. I picked up a 6s pack at the hobby shop a few weeks ago slapped it in old 600e , like riding a bike.you don't lose your skills I can say that ain't no big deal back like yesterday. Shopping around a main heli Dre, rons is gone.very few. Rate gyro hard to find. No flybar kits ex used. Used flybar kit not bad so leave that rtf flybar 600 700 on classified alone I'm trying to get money. I can say when I was flying back when my rig was unstoppable sg reactor x 8717 solid g radix hyper grip. It was my fault , i should have got the se tailblades. Then this guy says flybarless takes care of the wind and all the setup faults,wtf. Flybar complex,yea that's what I was proud of. Now I'm just asking myself if I'm actually flying if I get back and do v bar or beast or ikon . When fbl came out I thought it was a cheat,knew a guy I flew with he got it , I still flew better at that . Build skills baby ,long lost.

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02-28-2018 02:35 AM  8 months agoPost 17
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My only rant to Heli manufacturers is make the frames more component friendly. Give us room to put the electronics.

As for FBL vs flybar
I'll take FBL and I prefer Ikon. it takes less time to setup, easy to use, has a bailout, is inexpensive. won't tip your model.
I don't know how I did it before FBL.

spending time, paying attention

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02-28-2018 03:00 AM  8 months agoPost 18
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

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Let's not forget about the tail..
Every flybarred heli I built took considerable time getting the tail system working right..lengthening or shortening servo arms trying different servos and blades..my two mini-vbars were locked in from the first flight and required very little tuning to get them right..I had a flybarred trex550 which I fiddled with for a year and a half to get rid of hunting problems..never succeeded.

I do a great decending funnel!

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02-28-2018 03:05 AM  8 months agoPost 19
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ICUR1-2
I don't know how I did it before FBL.
It's in your signature, notably the latter part:

spending time, paying attention

Flybars were great. FBL is great. The cool thing about most hobbies is that you get to do whichever flavor of it that you think is great.

There's still a fair amount of modelers that stand out in fields winding rubber bands to attach propellers to their aircraft, and have a knee-slapping big 'ol time. Again, it's a hobby. It's the people that make it what it is, and our own personal journeys with our skills that make it satisfying and worthwhile to us.

J. B. Jones

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02-28-2018 06:29 AM  8 months agoPost 20
heli4fun

rrNovice

TRUMP, USA

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Well said Jbjones!!!
Hell,i like Vanilla ice cream,but others may like chocolate,so who's to say whats right for you when you already enjoy what you're presently doing.

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