RunRyder RC
WATCH
 5 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 4946 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 700XN News  New Align 700XN
02-15-2018 03:17 PM  9 months agoPost 41
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

More time has passed. I would say the build phase of this thread is over. I now have 4 increasing acrobatic flights on this helicopter. Most of what is to follow is likely to be things learned from flying. Hopefully others will post with answers and impressions.

Summation of my build:
- Time to assemble this kit from opening the box the throwing the box away was about 5 1/2 hours. Just one long(ish) and enjoyable afternoon. It really was a straight forward build. If it ever seemed problematic or slow it was because I failed to order a few necessary items needed for completion. That meant having to place an addition order and because of my work schedule, the build slowed some. That is typical for me. It's just how I get things built.

- Additional time required after assembling all the kit parts, and before the first flight, was probably around 8 to 10 hours. Much of this was learning and setting up the iKON controller - which is new to me. More time was spent verifying everything wasn't just assembled, but was assemble to the best of my ability. That includes verifying the frame is straight, the wiring isn't going to chafe or rub on something, the tail pitch change mechanism was free moving but didn't include slop, etc...

- Total build time to the first flight was under 15 hours.

- I didn't buy the Align combo package. Using the Align recommended servos and their voltage regulator probably would have fixed several issues I encountered.

Things I needed and didn't have:
-- Mini servo for throttle.
-- Extensions for cyclic and tail servos.
-- Head button.

On to the flight phase!

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-15-2018 04:38 PM  9 months agoPost 42
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have started flying this helicopter as hard as I personally know how. I really like the iKON but this thread is more about the 700XN so I will limit my comments.

After a total of 4 flights and 32 minutes of flight time, the engine and clutch are back out of the helicopter. No issues with the engine. The clutch is slipping. As I mentioned in another post, I've set this helicopter to run at 1450, 1650 and 1,900 rpm. The lower head speeds are the problem.

I have set up my helicopter using a Futaba/OS Back Plate Sensor (BPS1). The Align kit includes provisions for a magnetic sensor to measure clutch bell speed. As it is now, my governor is accurately governing the engine for the programmed head speed but that is not the same as rotor head speed. I will install the magnets in the clutch bell and mount a pick up in the frame while the clutch/gearbox/engine are out.

Align's advertising says:
The new steel alloy clutch liner is durable with temperature control avoiding the exploding clutch liner or breaking clutch housing.
I'm anxious to see how this develops. Steel on steel doesn't sound like a good clutch but I'm willing to try it.

I've measured the clearance to the clutch bell as .032" total or .016" per side. Align is new to me but this is twice what I would consider acceptable for other brands.

I question the wisdom of having a vented steel on steel clutch immediately below a pinion gear that needs to be periodically lubricated. It seems possible (likely) grease/oil could migrate into the clutch.

While the engine is out I've modified the fan shroud to allow the use the OS's velocity stack. See picture for what that looks like after modification.

All of these issues are potentially my fault. I concede that 1,450 may simply be outside the design envelope of this clutch/helicopter. Engine RPM may be insufficient for proper engagement. It is also possible I may have not have sufficiently degreased the clutch bell, clutch, start shaft one-way bearing. It would be unlike me to neglect this but it is possible.

As of this writing, I'm at a crossroads. I am torn between thoroughly cleaning everything with brake cleaner and having another go at the stock setup, and removing most of the steel liner and installing a more conventional liner (to include clearances I'm more familiar with). I'd like to give Align's helicopter a fair shake and try flying it as they shipped it. And on the other hand, it seems inevitable I will abandon the current system.

I'd really like to hear other peoples experiences.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-15-2018 06:16 PM  9 months agoPost 43
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

imo your low HS might have contributed to the premature wear. however align clutches have always had a problem with the gap being to large.
try shimming with a pop can

spending time, paying attention

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-15-2018 10:57 PM  9 months agoPost 44
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ICUR1-2
imo your low HS might have contributed to the premature wear. however align clutches have always had a problem with the gap being to large.
try shimming with a pop can
This morning I was on the fence as to how to proceed. While a really do want to give the steel clutch liner another go, I also would like to keep flying this helicopter.

I've contrived a two prong approach.

1st... I had everything needed to set up this clutch like all my other helicopters. The Align people may want to look away at this point. Basically I machined off 1/2 of the steel liner and glued in a Garlock liner. I then trued and sized the new liner to and .008" per side clearance.

2nd... Because my OEM steel liner was now no longer available for testing, I ordered a new 700XN clutch bell.

I want emphasize that none of this is a criticism of Align's helicopter. It's just me getting familiar with a new model.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 02:08 AM  9 months agoPost 45
Danny Calderone

rrKey Veteran

South Jersey

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

very nicely done

Signature

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 02:10 AM  9 months agoPost 46
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Danny Calderone
very nicely done
Indeed. Well done, Bill. Hope you can rack up some blade-time with that thing now.

J. B. Jones

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 07:26 AM  9 months agoPost 47
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Was it only at the 1450 head speed that the clutch would slip?

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 10:31 AM  9 months agoPost 48
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Richardmid1
Was it only at the 1450 head speed that the clutch would slip?
I'm not certain it wasn't slipping at 1,650 too. I haven't flown it enough to be sure.

Again, there is no judgment of Align in any of this. I've only flown 4 tanks of fuel. That is not enough to come to conclusions. Unfortunately it's February and raining too much to get a lot of field time. I have had shop time so I put a more conventional clutch liner in it. I certainly will put an OEM steel liner back in and try it again. I want this new technology to work and it deserves a better effort from me.

I'll be interested in other people's experience.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 10:43 AM  9 months agoPost 49
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The clutch gap you mentioned does seem a little big! You could possibly bore out the clutch shoe pivot holes (if you know what I mean?) to make the shoes spread more easily at lower RPM's?

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 10:50 AM  9 months agoPost 50
joeplumber1

rrNovice

cincinnati ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sounded that way, I have had zero issue with mine. I have a 105 run 2100 and it's hitting hard as does all my align helis I've never had an issue with any of my align clutches

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 02:29 PM  9 months agoPost 51
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

joeplumber1
Sounded that way, I have had zero issue with mine. I have a 105 run 2100 and it's hitting hard as does all my align helis I've never had an issue with any of my align clutches
Well at 2,100 and 8.23 gearing I'm sure the clutch is locked up. That is 17,283rpm at the engine. As a side note, and risking hijacking my own thread, OS rates the 105's operating range as 2,000-16,500rpm and quotes peak power at 15,000. I'm not saying 17,000+ can't be done. It just doesn't suit my flying.
Richardmid1
The clutch gap you mentioned does seem a little big! You could possibly bore out the clutch shoe pivot holes (if you know what I mean?) to make the shoes spread more easily at lower RPM's?
I'm new to Align but I have read of people breaking clutches. They report the fix as reducing the clearance to the clutch bell. I have no personal experience with this so I feel like I'm repeating rumors - something I'm not inclined to do. While allowing the shoes to flex more freely might help the clutch engage better at lower RPM, it might lead to breakage.(?) For the moment I've installed a more conventional liner in the bell and will experiment with the steel liner later. I wish I could buy an uncut steel liner. I would like to try the steel liner again but would like to machine the clearance to less than the .032" my kit came with.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-16-2018 03:25 PM  9 months agoPost 52
joeplumber1

rrNovice

cincinnati ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You would be correct and everyone has there own style mine my heli is at that rpm on spot not sluggish extremely responsive it just likes it. By the way this thing flies absolutely amazing absolutely amazing

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 01:56 AM  9 months agoPost 53
BONO1

rrApprentice

AR

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

XN
I built the combo which came with a cracked canopy. This Align kit has no alignment tabs as the DFC or LE had. Still it was an easy build and I was able to keep frames straight when built.
Using Ikon with wires toward mainshaft so no extensions needed. I too decided to go with a head button. Many pilots choice not to run for fear of increased damage during a crash. I’m not a big fan of the steep angle nose down but think the thick boom supports will be a plus.
I haven’t flown it so can’t bragg or complain about the way it flys but according to my scales could be a couple ounces heavier than my DFC. If the thread stays active I’ll comment once I’ve flown it.
There are a few pictures in my gallery to show wiring although it’s difficult to see the servo wires between the top frames.
Sam

blow smoke

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 08:47 AM  9 months agoPost 54
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

wjvail
While allowing the shoes to flex more freely might help the clutch engage better at lower RPM, it might lead to breakage.(?)
It could actually prevent breakage as it would flex instead of crack? You would only need to open the holes up maybe 0.2mm in diameter I would think.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 02:17 PM  9 months agoPost 55
wifeorheli

rrElite Veteran

reno, nevada usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Perfect head button no damage... forget where this came from though...

Novarossi Motors U.S.A
www.PLanethobby.com
Team GrandRc.com
Team Byron Fuels
ZRC U.S.A. "PushGlo, SwitchGlo"

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 03:07 PM  9 months agoPost 56
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Richardmid1
It could actually prevent breakage as it would flex instead of crack? You would only need to open the holes up maybe 0.2mm in diameter I would think.
I hadn't thought of it that way. I like the logic. I carefully measured my clutch before installing a new liner and it wasn't sprung. That suggest to me the clutch is capable of flexing far enough to engage a .032" clearance without permanent deformation.

Modifying the OEM Align clutch is an experiment that'll have to wait. I can certainly see trying it if other solutions fail.

As it is now, I am running the OEM clutch and using the kit clutch bell modified with a tradition liner set to .008" per side. I got in two flights yesterday before it started raining. I was very happy with the performance. For those that may be considering this solution, I would consider .008" the very minimum. My clutch drags at idle and the helicopter begins spooling up slowly if the head is released. The drag isn't nearly enough to stall the motor and I can comfortably stop the head using the head button. I believe after a little more use it will be perfect.

I have purchased the below clutch. It is marketed as being specific to gas helicopters. I don't know if that is because they don't think people will want or need a stronger, heavier clutch for a glow model, or if they believe their clutch is not suited to higher RPM. I may call them before I risk using it in my model. My hope is that it will pair well with the OEM steel liner and my lower head speed. Anyone have any experience with this clutch?
https://www.amainhobbies.com/lynx-h...lyx0135/p199770

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 03:28 PM  9 months agoPost 57
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I mentioned in an earlier post that I was going to remove the BPS rpm sensor and replace it with frame mounted sensor just above the clutch bell. This is what Align had in mind for this kit. In fact , the kit included magnets and a sensor pickup. Unfortunately the sensor included a connector specific to the BeastX FBL controller.

My solution was to install a Futaba RPM pickup. The Futaba sensor is compatible with the iKON. The two small holes Align provided in the frame for mounting their included sensor didn't line up very well for my Futaba sensor. I drilled two 3/32" holes next to the existing holes. See picture for the location. Use a sharp drill, little pressure and go slow and you won't have trouble drilling the carbon. A center punch will help the drill start without walking.

If you are considering this modification, know that I haven't verified that the gearbox can be removed without first removing the pickup. There isn't a lot of space between the frames and installing the very small washers and nuts to mount the sensor is a fussy job. It'd be nice to not have to remove them to service the gearbox/clutch.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/futaba...-futm1101/p9432

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 03:35 PM  9 months agoPost 58
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

In an earlier post I mentioned the kit didn't include a switch mount. I found a place on the frame that I thought would work. I drilled a hole in the canopy for access. That looks like the attached pictures.

As I mentioned before, this canopy is thin. I used a die grinder with a stone and step drill. Go very slowly or it will chip.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 04:50 PM  9 months agoPost 59
balsabasher

rrVeteran

Central Ohio, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Pm you a link with info on the gasser clutch.

Blades; what goes around, comes around!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2018 05:02 PM  9 months agoPost 60
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Your clutch will get less draggy as it wears in. What you also get with reduced clutch gap is more shoe surface area contact with the liner so you get even more grab.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 5 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 4946 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 700XN News  New Align 700XN
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 8  Topic Subscribe

Monday, November 19 - 6:19 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online