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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Hobbico filing ch 11
01-16-2018 05:45 PM  10 months agoPost 41
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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HA come to think of it, the pony express may be faster than Towers delivery system.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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01-16-2018 06:06 PM  10 months agoPost 42
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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This thread is exactly indicative of the problem. Too expensive, not enough technology, too slow to deliver. Are you guys listening to yourselves? Do you fulfill everything you are expecting of the hobby industry in your job? The expectations are unreasonable.

What is wrong with Futaba offering rock solid nearly flawless radio links to our models? That's going to take a little time and cost you a little delay in the latest features until they are certain they work flawlessly.

Is there really anything wrong with placing an order for hobby items and it taking a few days to land on your doorstep?

Can you really expect American brick and mortar businesses to compete head to head with Chinese mail order near slave labor websites? Would you work for their wages?

I think the expectations are selfish and unrealistic. YOU wouldn't want to have to live up to them but you expect everyone else to.

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01-16-2018 06:42 PM  10 months agoPost 43
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Futaba is so far behind the curve now with the intro of the ix12 by spekrtum that they are dead in the water, because since they went to dmsx their problems are in the past.
Good grief. Why do you say things like this? Futaba hasn't always been the first but they have always been the best.

Spektrum and JR teamed up together to introduce spread spectrum radios. I heard the same thing back then. Futaba is done.

Futaba wasn't the first to market with 2.4. Time passed and Futaba did release their 2.4GHz. In the interim, an entire generation's worth of models hit the ground. JR is bankrupt and Spektrum, after years of trying, has finally come up with something to match Futaba's system.

Does Futaba have some work to do? Sure -the work never ends. They will release what they feel will be competitive in the hobby market when they feel it is a complete and finished product.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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01-16-2018 08:30 PM  10 months agoPost 44
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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MartyH ??

how about this>>

1) a month ago I was look on Towers at a plane I wanted to buy, shipping was free, then the sale popped up and I had to pay the shipping,, where was the savings in that sale ?? >>> no where !!

2) today I'm looking at a different plane at Towers, I have to pay shipping, but I can buy it from the importer for the same price and shipping is free, why should I give Towers $30 for flat rate shipping when it coast them only $10 or less ??

now, I'm not going to join the Towers club just to get free shipping, cause I don't buy from them monthly or even yearly, I'm not playing their game

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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01-16-2018 09:24 PM  10 months agoPost 45
rcscaleguy

rrNovice

CA, USA

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Shipping, pricing
Shipping to your door may be convenient, but when the product is damaged and or needs items that may be missing in your kit your going to have to shell out big time for possibly the part and the shipping. Try having to ship the item back to China that you feel is damaged. By the time you've sent it back you could have supported an American worker and provided yourself a better service support opportunity.

As far as the pricing sales strategy, what do you expect. You can only cut so far and then it's not worth doing business. You wouldn't sell something you didn't make a profit on. They have to do something to entice you, and if free shipping is something that peaks your interest so be it. But the cost(cogs), margin, profit, TFC, and AFC all have to be considered. You just don't slash because someone on the other side of the world is undercutting the market. Their cost is different than what an American company has to incur. Manufacturers come up with MSRP, in order to normalize global pricing but there is always gray market and people trying to be first to market.

So if we constantly buy direct we can all expect to see no support for new products and or innovations. Many of these come from users and if there is no link from consumer, product managers, analyst, to manufacture. Expect to see even less innovation.

A really bad position for the hobby at large.

Amazon will eat all our lunches, watch out they may sell an item that your work manufactures and put you out of work. Seen it many times.

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01-16-2018 10:04 PM  10 months agoPost 46
Infarcted

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downunder

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Social media and transparency are what killed and is killing certain industries. With respect to RC helis ,it seems that price is certainly over advice these days .
I work in the medical field and I can tell you patients come in asking for investigations and testing rather than my advising . So how is this knowledge garnered - you are right , the internet .

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01-17-2018 02:46 AM  9 months agoPost 47
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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rcscaleguy, if you are referring to my post

1) if a Online store has a plane that sells for $200/w no shipping charges, and then say it's on sale for $170 and charge $30 for shipping it's not a sale, it's simply a trick

2) the 2nd plane I am looking at is an American designed/owned plane, I should have made that clear, but it's most likely made over seas

I know people do, but I would never buy direct over seas

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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01-17-2018 02:42 PM  9 months agoPost 48
yongary

rrApprentice

Nashua, NH

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Towerhobbies
It seems that many of you don't drive rc cars. Towerhobbies has the best price on rc car stuff with member discount and e-cashback. Of course, I do not buy anything from them for my heli stuff. For example, most places sell Pro-line MT PRO 4x4 for 399. This is the newest model that came out recently. From towerhobbies, you can apply 80 discount and 48 e-cashback (399-80-48=271) with free shipping. The warranty service is good, too. I had some issues with motor and esc combo for my car and They replaced them with no questions asked. For rc car owners, towerhobbies was the place to go. For helis, I use helidirect and amainhobbies.

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01-17-2018 03:07 PM  9 months agoPost 49
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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saying that LHS didnt innovate led to their demise is a stretch... all successful online businesses have one thing in common.... they have what most people want...

Everyone barks angrily at Amazon... but why have they become successful? because they found a way to bring hundreds of individual businesses under one "roof". Amazon simply links you to the business... thats all. and online RC hobby stores are no different... but Local Hobby stores cannot compete with that level of variety and speed when an online retailer simply passes your order onto a drop shipping warehouse...

think about this for one minute... how much money a LHS has to make in a month to stay profitable to the point the the owner sees that keeping it open is to his/her benefit? Now, consider what you as an individual buy on a monthly basis vs another hobbyist that may not be as financially gifted as some of you all. Then consider how many of these people have to exist in a given area in order to support such a hobby shop with all its operating expenses. Its stupid to think a LHS can stay open even if it did offer online sales.

look how many people are online here on RR at any given time (463 as I post this).... how many have actually ordered anything RC heli related in the last month... then consider the sheer variety of stuff they use... and then you all will begin to see that no online/LHS store can compete given this current market...

it will get to a point were only a tiny handful of online retailers will remain and only the most popular brands will survive based on market/customer demand.

the weak will die off... thats just the way it is...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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01-17-2018 05:16 PM  9 months agoPost 50
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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Tower has a hell of a lot of stuff. Planes and gear of all types from many companies, and a few of their own brand. Loved my old Tower Fun 51 profile. I just ordered a Tower Sbach plank, arrives later today. That one looks to be a hoot as well.

We only have one remaining LHS in my town. Hate to lose Tower as well.

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01-17-2018 08:26 PM  9 months agoPost 51
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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RM3
Everyone barks angrily at Amazon... but why have they become successful? because they found a way to bring hundreds of individual businesses under one "roof". Amazon simply links you to the business... thats all. and online RC hobby stores are no different... but Local Hobby stores cannot compete with that level of variety and speed when an online retailer simply passes your order onto a drop shipping warehouse...
I suspect you dont completely undersand Amazon's business model.

The reseller market, while fairly prominent is only a small slice of Amazons business - about 15% of their business in FY16 if you download their wall street filings. They still sell a TREMENDOUS amount of product direct (over 65% of revenue), and they killed everyone else by getting so big and negotiate such favorable volume pricing deals that they could undercut everybody. Then they used the prime system to lock in customers, and once they had the market cornered and killed off a lot of alternatives they started increasing prices to what the market (that they now monopolize) would bear.

They use algorithms that adjust prices and stock levels by tyhe minute to maximize profit. Nobody short of Walmart has the scale to really compete with them now.

And there is more... of those 15% resellers, many of them dont even ship product direct to you. They use the fulfillment by Amazon system where they just give the stock to Amazon and amazon does everything - marketing, sales, shipment, etc. It all gets intermingled in the warehouse so there isn't even a guarantee that the physical product you bought came from the "seller" you ordered from. Lots of east Asia counterfeit goods get into the system and get "laundered" this way and the individual resellers get left holding the bag when customers complain. Just read amazon reseller forums.... lots of unhappy businesses with bad experiences there.

And then there is another 20% (and growing) share of Amazons revenue that doesn't come from retail at all. It comes from business services like AWS, which owns something like 30-40% of the cloud hosting market. Basically any website or computing service you you, from ANY vendor ANYWHERE in the world... has a better than 1 in 3 chance that on the back end its running on Amazon hardware.

That's how big they are.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-17-2018 11:32 PM  9 months agoPost 52
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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jharkin
The reseller market, while fairly prominent is only a small slice of Amazons business - about 15% of their business in FY16
What's so insidious is that they monitor (mine) their reseller's top selling products and then go directly against them with direct sales.
jharkin
And then there is another 20% (and growing) share of Amazons revenue that doesn't come from retail at all. It comes from business services like AWS, which owns something like 30-40% of the cloud hosting market.
Big retailers are starting to say no to AWS and looking to Google and Microsoft to maintain sanity. Jeff Bezos is now the richest guy out there. I wonder for how long?

Mark Ryder

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01-19-2018 08:56 PM  9 months agoPost 53
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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Mark Ryder
Big retailers are starting to say no to AWS and looking to Google and Microsoft to maintain sanity. Jeff Bezos is now the richest guy out there. I wonder for how long?
Its a lot more than retail thats on the cloud. Its services, big investment houses and banks, large software and manufacturing companies that put their in-house compute resources on the cloud, government agencies and so on.

For example, didyou know that before they built their own private cloud, Netflix used something like half of AWS?

Some of those other players may be growing faster, but Amazon is so far out in the lead here its going to take a long time for them to catch up. Google is stuck in third place. Microsoft Azure is still very much windows centric... I believe you *can* put linux vms in it, but i havent heard of anyone who does. Lots of companies use a dual AWS/Azure strategy and htey try to put most of their critical enterprise loads into AWS running on Linux or a UNIX flavor... and reserve Azure for things that have to run on windows.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-19-2018 09:17 PM  9 months agoPost 54
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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RR does it the old fashioned way collocating its own locked down hardware. It's definitely more cost effective but requires an extra skill set. No vulnerability issues either when NOT sharing hardware when taking into account the latest Meltdown and Spectre security bugs.

Mark Ryder

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01-19-2018 11:21 PM  9 months agoPost 55
chaveezy

rrNovice

Jacksonville, NC

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Great discussion guys, the hobby is liquid, very hard to determine our short attention spans. Hope to see it continue into the future. Jharkin has some very valuable contributions.

AMA #511516

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01-20-2018 12:51 AM  9 months agoPost 56
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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WJVAIL,
I am going to give you my reason why I said what I said about
futaba. First let me say this I have been a Futaba guy my whole life and I agree about their signal....the best in the industry. Now let me tell you what happened to me, I brought out my twin wich I did not fly for about a year. I bring up the model and all of the data was corrupted. Took me about three hours to straighten out every thing...or so I thought. Now what happened next is my fault but it would have never happened if the data was not corrupted....I had the ailerons reversed and I don't have to tell you happened. Just to set the table here this is not the first time this has happened either (12SG). It happened once before on one of my helis but I got out of that one untouched
So that and I bought a DX9 and found the programing so much user friendly that O feel that Futaba is way behind the curve. My DX9 even lets me now out loud when it is time to come down, and now with the ix12 and DMSX futaba has a lot of catching up to do. This is strictly my opinion and results my vary.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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01-20-2018 01:48 AM  9 months agoPost 57
allns47

rrKey Veteran

Richmond IN.

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always do a preflight check,,,,you could of killed somebody regardless of what radio system you use..

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Hobbico filing ch 11
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