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HomeMy Site✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › CNN FAA waiver to fly Multirotor over crowds
10-18-2017 05:14 PM  21 months ago
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TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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CNN FAA waiver to fly Multirotor over crowds
IMHO, this is a huge mistake by the FAA and is indicative of the amount of pressure that certain organizations are putting on the FAA to let them start to do stupid stuff.

Here's the article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...hts-over-crowds

Here's the M/R they want to use: https://vantagerobotics.com/

Based on what I'm seeing it is not exactly clear how well the Snap Flying camera has been tested and it certainly has little time in the field. It's small and light but IMHO, this will lead to heavier units being waivered. It always does. Flying Multis with a cellphone is not a safe way to proceed. What are the quals of the operator?
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10-18-2017 06:07 PM  21 months ago
MartyH

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USA

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I think you are overreacting. I read the article you supplied the link to and I think they did their due diligence. 1.37lbs, internal rotors and designed to come apart upon an impact. I'm fine with that.
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10-18-2017 06:36 PM  21 months ago
TMoore

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Overreacting? This is just the beginning. Once they get a small one waivered what's to stop them from going for a larger one next? BTW, this request is for a M/R that has no real world testing, nothing more than testing by the company so here's the scenario;

Has this product been tested flying over several thousand cellphone users with multiple levels of WiFi connections active looking for a node as well as bidirectional cellphone transmissions? What frequencies will the M/R be using? 2.4 or 5Ghz? Is an Amateur Radio license required for the Video downlink or for the control link? Without knowing the specifics how do you ascertain the facts? How is the model flown and what are the qualifications of the operators? Is Part 107 required?

There are too many unanswered questions to just say that you're "fine" with it but that's up to you.

Even their own specs are pretty vague.

https://vantagerobotics.com/snap/specs
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10-18-2017 06:59 PM  21 months ago
MartyH

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USA

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Ok, let me change my response from, "I am fine with it" based on the model being 1.37lbs and having internal rotors to, "I don't care".

You really think CNN is going to toss some amateur quality, untested, unhardened rotorcraft out over a sea of people in the public? Many of which may be happy to take a rotorcraft to the face for a handsome payout. You really think CNN is just winging it in regards to liability?
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10-18-2017 07:50 PM  21 months ago
mike123

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Brandon MS

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Ok, let me change my response from, "I am fine with it" based on the model being 1.37lbs and having internal rotors to, "I don't care".

You really think CNN is going to toss some amateur quality, untested, unhardened rotorcraft out over a sea of people in the public? Many of which may be happy to take a rotorcraft to the face for a handsome payout. You really think CNN is just winging it in regards to liability?
I'm sure you're correct but as people see uav's over crowds they will think it's ok for any unit and it begins over regulation and the end of the hobby. I can see it coming deep pockets always come out ahead and the RC industry doesn't have very deep pockets.

It's to bad all you can do is sit back and watch it unfold.
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10-18-2017 08:07 PM  21 months ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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he who has the gold makes the rules...showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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10-18-2017 09:37 PM  21 months ago
EEngineer

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TX

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If it falls out of the sky and strikes anyone.....or even scares people when it does so, CNN will be sued.....period.

And it will cost CNN money to defend themselves.

If CNN decides that they can withstand this cost of doing business, they will proceed.

Now, if the venues have clauses in their tickets such that people waive such liability claims, like MLB does with issues such as foul balls....then these drone overflights will become commonplace.....
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10-18-2017 09:42 PM  21 months ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Ok, let me change my response from, "I am fine with it" based on the model being 1.37lbs and having internal rotors to, "I don't care".

You really think CNN is going to toss some amateur quality, untested, unhardened rotorcraft out over a sea of people in the public? Many of which may be happy to take a rotorcraft to the face for a handsome payout. You really think CNN is just winging it in regards to liability?
You're kidding right? This is CNN and the same clown show that brought us Registration. The M/R is untested, it's held together with magnets and oh BTW, do you have kids? If you do, can we test them to see if a battery pack hurled from space at 35mph can knock them out, do permanent brain damage or at the very least bruise the bejeezus out of them? A softball weighs 7oz max, this thing weighs 25 oz. I don't want to get hit in the noggin with a softball at 35 mph and I bet you don't want to either.

Controlling a device with a cellphone is time sharing, that means that it is on GPS and internal nav most of the time. We all know how reliable cellphones are with Wifi, BT and other processor intensive tasks so do you really want a CNN hamfisted knucklehead in control of a 25oz object on a part time basis over a crowd of fully distracted cellphones users enjoying a sporting event or other event?

C'mon, have you really thought this out?
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10-18-2017 10:18 PM  21 months ago
870heli

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Monson Ma. USA

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Sounds like it sucks. Always when you open a door a little it gets pushed wide open.
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10-18-2017 10:51 PM  21 months ago
EEngineer

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TX

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Controlling a device with a cellphone is time sharing
Or CDMA, but your point is well taken.

It's not mission critical reliable....

Regardless, as you mention, falling from altitude will cause a knot on the noggin for sure.....flying sideways into a face even worse.
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10-18-2017 11:27 PM  21 months ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Maybe the Mavic or Spark from DJI would be better choices. It is bound to happen sooner or later. The police will want to fly over crowds more than CNN.
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10-19-2017 04:32 AM  21 months ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Maybe the Mavic or Spark from DJI would be better choices. It is bound to happen sooner or later. The police will want to fly over crowds more than CNN.
At least if you buy one of those, it will rat out your location and all the vitals on your phone so the Clown show can hunt you down like a dog and throw you in jail if something happens.
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10-19-2017 12:50 PM  21 months ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I thought that I was talking about approved flights for acceptable purposes above crowds. I thought that better aircraft choices existed. I think drones should be part of the police toolset for crowds.

I do not think Joe Blow should ever be approved for anytime flight above people.

DJI has a system, like it or dislike it. Of course, DJI can be hacked and has been.
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10-19-2017 05:27 PM  21 months ago
whirlyspud

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"Is an Amateur Radio license required for the Video downlink or for the control link?"

I would think commercial operation would rule this out. I think the people currently using frequencies covered by an Amateur License for commercial use are already breaking the law.
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10-19-2017 05:59 PM  21 months ago
AirWolfRC

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Doesn't the mentioned multirotor have multiple ways of control ?
Only one of them was from a wifi connection to a smart phone.
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10-19-2017 06:11 PM  21 months ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I would think commercial operation would rule this out. I think the people currently using frequencies covered by an Amateur License for commercial use are already breaking the law.
Commercial use doesn't alleviate you from the requirement unless the equipment is FCC certified.
Doesn't the mentioned multirotor have multiple ways of control ?
Only one of them was from a wifi connection to a smart phone.
It doesn't say that. Here is what it said on their spec page.

Controllers

Primary controller iOS or Android smartphone or tablet with free SmartTilt control app
Link WiFi
Two stick control alternatives Bluetooth game controller (used in conjunction with smartphone + app) or DSM controller (used in conjunction with DSM accessory module)
Range 150 meters max with phone over WiFi, 1 kilometer with WiFi range extender or DSM controller/module, as far as battery or law allows with auto modes
Communications Protocol Mavlink

http://www.w2aee.columbia.edu/fcc-bandplan.html
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10-19-2017 06:38 PM  21 months ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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I see this in their spec under controllers,

Two stick control alternatives - - Bluetooth game controller (used in conjunction with smartphone + app) or DSM controller (used in conjunction with DSM accessory module)

To me, DSM means something like Spektrum.
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10-19-2017 07:06 PM  21 months ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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https://vantagerobotics.com/news/control-snap-your-wayDelayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Gone, replaced by the FAA
Drones = EVIL
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10-19-2017 07:47 PM  21 months ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Pending Lawsuits
Cut and paste from posted link...

The FAA currently prohibits drone flights overhead, although its regulations allow for waivers if applicants can show there’s no risk of injury. Limited waivers have been issued to filmmakers and others for flights over contained areas after those on the ground consented.

The small device that was approved, a Snap drone, has internal rotors and is designed to break apart in the event of a crash to prevent injuries. Time Warner Inc.’s CNN and Vantage Robotics, the company that built it, say they spent two years designing and testing the drone.

The Snap drone weighs 1.37 pounds (0.62 kilograms), and its four rotors are encased to reduce the chances of injury.

Prevent vs Reduce? Which one is it?

* * * * *

From their FAQ

Snap is designed to minimize the chance of injury in the event of unintended contact. While the props are protected, small fingers can fit in there if you really try. Be smart and don’t take unnecessary risks. Specifically, never fly directly over people or intentionally fly into anyone (or anything).

* * * * * *

I'm not a lawyer but when I do pose as one, I drink Dos Equis XX
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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10-19-2017 07:56 PM  21 months ago
whirlyspud

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USA

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Terry, What I meant is that the channels that you need HAM for are not for commercial use. I think a bunch of people break this law.

Mike
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