RunRyder RC
WATCH
 1 page 1108 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › ESC shut down
09-19-2017 07:51 PM  12 months agoPost 1
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So I decided to upgrade my 450 instead of finishing my 500 kit. I got a lot of good information here and thanks to all. I would say I have a good heli now lots of changes. But a chain will break at the weakest link. On my first flight I was happier than a pig in sh!t. Only the frame and receiver is original and it fly's super fast! I did a couple of adjustments and got it back in the air. After 4 minutes of bliss it went out of control hit a bush and was at full throttle on the ground. Turns out the speed controller was screaming hot. It had a 40 amp and I put a 50 amp hobbywing on it. I thought I was safe with that what happened and what to do now? Again it's so responsive and fast I want to fly it more.

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 09:19 PM  12 months agoPost 2
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

flame helmet engaged...
Buy a better quality esc..spending a little more pays off in the long run..sorry..we all had to learn that lesson.

I do a great decending funnel!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 09:34 PM  12 months agoPost 3
zonker

rrNovice

South Jordan, UT USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've had good luck with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO series. I was running a CC Talon 90 on my Goblin 500 but I never felt it was giving me the RPMs I wanted. I threw a Platinum Pro on it and the heli really woke up. Many of the guys I fly with are using them now on their Goblins.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 10:01 PM  12 months agoPost 4
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down...and went out of control hit a bush and was at full throttle on the ground
Sorry to say the above is contradicting.

Yes, ESC was hot but is it still working?

What were the settings?

What maneuvers were you doing when it went out of control?

What exactly did it do?

Did you hit throtle hold and if yes, did it respond?

We all can speculate until the cows come home but too many variables to pinpoint possibilities. Need more details.

Sorry about your lost but glad you're having fun.

Spending more money on a better ESC as mentioned doesnt mean it wont happened again unless we can really find the actual cause to your "upgraded" 450 crash.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 10:32 PM  12 months agoPost 5
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
What happened was I started slow hovering then did some regular pumps it was all good so I did some sport piro,rolls then doing tight loops it lost tail lock when it was nose down. I had no control at all it went to full throttle and I knew I had to hit throttle lock. I just never seen any thing like no response when hit the switch. It was still in the air bit on it's way down. So I heard it strip the gear and rev then stop. Did I loose bec and then thermal shutdown? This is what is new savox hs tail servo, 3 new hi tec mg hs digital swash, 3500 kV motor it had 4000 before. Great torque now new dfc head,swashplate, CNC tail,put new belt on. Can you suggest a esc? I was going to get a h.w. platinum.

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 10:38 PM  12 months agoPost 6
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

3dorbust
Hold on!

450 upgraded...did you change motor pinions/ESC/elec motor?

I would suggest you get an infrared temp gun to measure your temps. If you running less than 100% throttle curves with an inefficient gearing, this will quickly overheat your ESC.

I bet you are running gearing that pulls more amps than your ESC can handle for the total duration of the flight.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-19-2017 10:46 PM  12 months agoPost 7
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
It seems odd to me to Pete I regularly check my ESC and this happened after only 3 to 4 minutes of sport flight. I just put a new gear and blades plus feathering shaft and flew for 1 min ESC was Luke warm. Man I now feel like buying a scorpion 2200 kV with a cc ice 120

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 03:59 AM  12 months agoPost 8
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Specs on your Hobbywing Skywalker 50A ESC says it's good for 50 amps motor current, and the BEC is good for 5V at 5Amps, and it is a switching regulator.

That should do just fine. (Except for the caveats in the last paragraph of this post).

Add some additional information --

You have Hitec digital servos, but which ones?
You have a Savox tail rotor servo, which one?
Which FBL controller are you using?

What motor are you using, and how many teeth on the pinion?

Do you have a toroid on the three-wire cable that goes between the throttle output of your receiver and the throttle control input of the ESC (toroid, a small donut-shaped ring, through which that cable passes several times). If not, it's time to add one.

What are you using for a receiver, and what are you using for a Transmitter?

What is your pitch range, and did you measure it with a pitch gauge, or SWAG it by eyeball?

Your description of what happened is kind of bizarre. Loss of RX signal should result in the ESC shutting the motor down, not going full-bore, the ESC should do that automatically, according to the ESC info site.
it lost tail lock when it was nose down. I had no control at all it went to full throttle and I knew I had to hit throttle lock. I just never seen any thing like no response when hit the switch.
Losing "tail lock" -- did it start spinning? Or something less dramatic?

Are you using a governor mode in the ESC, or throttle curves? If throttle curves, what do they look like?

Is the rudder trim in all of your flight modes identical, and do you by any chance use rudder trim while in flight after the system is powered up and happy?

Have you bothered to set up a fail-safe setting in your RX -- typically keep servos where they are, and go to low-throttle setting? Have you tested it to make sure that failsafe does what you think it does?

ESC being really really hot is not typical -- if the motor was happy, the ESC shouldn't be crazy hot. Were any of the servos extra toasty, or did you check? Were you sure there were no servos hitting an endpoint of travel and stalling out, in flight? How's the rudder gyro gain? Too high so the servo is going nuts trying to keep up, drawing a lot of current in the process?

Throttle hold -- is that set to kill the throttle on your setup when you engage it? If so, have you tested it, to make certain you have it set up correctly?

The ESC puts out 5V, how solid is that under load? Does it droop to less than 3.5 volts, even momentarily?

Any chance one or more servo wires was run across a sharp carbon-fiber edge somewhere and chafed away the insulation? Any chance a servo wire coming into contact with the spinning can of the motor?

ESC properly programmed, including calibrating the throttle of your TX to the input range of the ESC?

Got any pre-crash pictures of your overall installation of the various bits of electronics?

As for ESCs, Align is doing a bang-up job for many years on the 450L Dominator 45 amp ESCs with 3A output from the BEC. These BECs are programmable to output up to 6V.

I question your ESC's BEC voltage output if it really is only 5VDC. 5VDC doesn't leave a whole lot of margin for a momentary power sag, that could cause your RX/FBL controller to go into reset (the dreaded "brown out" ). If you don't have a Toroid on the ESC/RX power-throttle cable, you could be putting garbage on the RX/FBL power line that makes them unhappy. The toroid prevents some nasty stuff from propagating out of the ESC and making it to your RX and FBL controller.

-----

Scorpion 2200 Kv motor would be silly, as would the 120 amp ESC.

BTW -- go ahead and fill out your User Profile.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 05:23 AM  12 months agoPost 9
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
WOW you know rc helicopters! It may be a brown out. I have a walkera 450 the frame tail boom and canopy is stock. I did not upgrade all at once. It ran OK but slow and sluggish with only a cheap motor and h w ESC 40. But I was getting better with it and flying it harder it would get hot. Motor, ESC,servos but not really bad. I got ten min. Flights on 3s 2200ma 25c batt. Now I have a savox sc 1258 tail, 3 hitec his 5085mg cyclics, tarot 3500kv motor,, devo 7 tx, devo RX flb unit,13t pinion, 121 main good carbons main and tail split lock dfc head and swashplate new CNC complete tail assembly. Yes I have a toroid I wrapped it 3 times it came wrapped only once. So I got the h w 50. And a 2800ma 3s 35c battery. No gov. Eye ball pitch buy my new head has index marks I did not exceed and are even pos. And neg. Pitch. Yes rudder trim in flight. I must say that at the top of a loop the tail swung 160 with no input i tried to correct quickly but no control at all it went full throttle blade first into a bush I hit T H. In time but nothing. After it hit down hard the gear went ect. It then shut down before I could unplug it. Out of habit I touched the ESC and it burned my finger a bit it would have melted had it not shut down so that's why i said ESC shut down. Pls tell me more of what you know!

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 06:27 AM  12 months agoPost 10
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
Oh I hate forgetting something! My throttle curve is 50,75,100 and pitch curve is 20,40,60,80 I don't know a whole lot but I'm 52 I am now a master tech. 30 years exp. So I understand the machine and what people here tell me. Great hobby and great people. I have a blade msr 6 years ago. In a bout of stupidity I thought I could fly a cp heli with no help. Guess how that turned out! I know now they were laughing at me when I left the hobby shop. But I have electric and nitro cars plus 4 quads and 4 helis all cp. I'm going to fly at least some decent 3d or bust! Cp helicopters are not toys and some seriously talented men fly them. I took advice and stuck with my 450 and did not buy a 700 yet. I do have a 500 trex clone kit partly done. Pistol Pete is close enough to go see him. But that's it for help he said I may get some friends there to fly mine and give me pointers. Feedback is why I joined RR. I now want top quality helicopters and the compass exo 500 is calling me. But I like to hear what vets. Here have and what I should consider.

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 07:16 AM  12 months agoPost 11
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Given the details, definitely sounds like a brownout and you may not have "fail safe" properly set.

Not mentioned is radio and receiver used.

Althought optional but putting some information in profile helps us help you quicker by not having to ask what some of us look for in there...pertinent information.

Our open house got cancelled due to hurricane Irma. Sorry if you went and found no one there. When ready to pay us a visit, shoot me a PM and I will make sure to meet you there.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 02:19 PM  12 months agoPost 12
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Pete -- buried in his last replay was this:
devo 7 tx, devo RX flb unit
I have to assume the receiver is this RX/FBL combo from Walkera:

There is a lot buried in his last few posts, I'll try to address them later today.

I'm not familiar with the Devo 7 TX or this RX/FBL unit, but being Walkera doesn't build confidence here!

BTW -- I'm usually loathe to assume a brownout until better evidence is offered.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 02:42 PM  12 months agoPost 13
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have to agree with either loss of signal or something like that. First if the tail gyro went out but still had power to the motor means esc was working.

Hobbywing 50 amp esc should be way good for it. We run a castle 50 amp on a 450 no problems so you don't need a bigger one.

I think pistol Pete is on the right track

Team Jr

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 03:07 PM  12 months agoPost 14
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

3500 kV motor
13t pinion, 121 main
Apart from the untrustworthy TX and RX, this^^^ is far from optimal gearing!

I would go and get an 11T pinion before you do anything else!

This will be why you thought it was fast and responsive, your headspeed may have been nearly 4000 rpm which is way too high.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 03:43 PM  12 months agoPost 15
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
I put my spare gear and blades on. At my small field I was pumping it straight up and down after 2 min motor and ESC was vary warm. I waited a bit then did more this time nose in and more collective. Unreal!! It did it again but this time I was ready. It did the180 and now tail in just above the grass so I set down. I had 2 problems at once. The new tail assembly gear was slipping on the shaft. Yep I got the shaft!!! Lol NOT! All OK but motor and ESC still gets hot quickly. Should I bring it to Pete as is? I put stock tail on and I can bring the bad one

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 03:45 PM  12 months agoPost 16
zonker

rrNovice

South Jordan, UT USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sometimes a graphic helps illustrate. Here's MrMel's headspeed calculator print screen shots for the 13t and 11t setups.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 04:52 PM  12 months agoPost 17
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
Tail lock is good now. So I swapped ESC to my 40 amp and it gets hot fast. No matter what I don't trust my esc, motor combo. I can't do hard 3d I mostly do easy sport flying. I guess I just don't know enough about it. I'm not going to treat this as rc helicopter school and pester people. I will slow down my head speed on the 450 and me.

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-20-2017 06:58 PM  12 months agoPost 18
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

@DKshema...thanks...I missed it.

* * * * *

When Walkeras first came out, they were nice looking helis BUT the electronics were notorious for not being good. That may have changed.

Have you set and tested fail safe? If not, remove all blades from heli, spool up and turn radio off. By default, most receivers should turn off motor and return servos to center while others will keep servos in last known position.

Then turn radio back on and you should regain control of heli. Also note how long it took for such to happen and yes...absolutely too long before heli goes in.

Of course, if motor did not turn off, time to revisit manual on how to do such for your devices. Some devices require to bind twice for such.

* * * * *

Agree on 11T pinion (Pn) given 3500rpm is more than adequate for a 450 plus you will get longer flights and cooler electronics so a WIN-WIN.

Save the high head speed for heli events noon demo flights...aka PRO

* * * * *

Pester? No, its Peter

Nah, you are getting replies from those willing to help. Ask away.

Absolutely nothing personal but something I tell to my flying peeps..."the common denominator of all your helis set up (success or failures) is....you".

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-21-2017 04:47 PM  12 months agoPost 19
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ESC shut down
Thanks I will do exactly what was said. I have a nice 6 CH. Futaba fasst tx. If I change to 11 pinion and keep motor and 50 amp hw ESC I can use the money to buy RX for my 450. I have spent for good servos,nice dfc flbs head and swashplate. Plus I put new bearings in tail assembly. One was bad from factory I think it was heating up and made the gear slip when hot. Anyway what do I buy to use futaba tx and eliminate walkera combo RX 3 axis setup?

I know how Icarus felt

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-21-2017 07:34 PM  12 months agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Change the pinion first and test it before dropping $$$ on a new tx and fbl unit. Although they would be a good upgrade they may not be needed.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1108 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › ESC shut down
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 6  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, September 26 - 12:30 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online