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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Motor timing
09-09-2017 12:29 AM  9 months agoPost 1
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Can anyone help me understand brushless outrunner motor timing that are controlled by an ESC it seems low timing more torque less rpm medium is a default so a bit of both and high timing is lower torque higher rpm but some say that's not set in stone my testing was on low I get good liftoff and hovering with no change in torque and ESC got real hot real fast and default is my gauge on high I definitely have less torque but I gained rpm and ESC runs a lot cooler but that's not what is supposed to happen I Wonder why?

I know how Icarus felt

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09-09-2017 01:03 AM  9 months agoPost 2
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

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It all depends on your:
- ESC
- Motor
- it's all different

This may help you:
http://www.xnovamotors.com/xnova-motors-esc-settings/

in order for us to help:
- what is your motor?
- what is your esc?

* consider using punctuations to make it easier for us understand what you are asking.

- Scott

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09-09-2017 02:08 AM  9 months agoPost 3
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Motor timing
Yea thanks it does help. It helped me realize I don't want to get to deep into brushless motor and ESC function. As well as all the aspects of electrical theory. Well at least I used punctuation this time.

I know how Icarus felt

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09-09-2017 02:12 AM  9 months agoPost 4
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

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There is a learning curve but well worth it.

PM Sent

BTW
Yes .. I noticed

- Scott

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09-09-2017 02:13 AM  9 months agoPost 5
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Thanks for using punctuation marks..... sure does make it much easier to read than the continuous run on sentences!!!!!

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-09-2017 02:18 AM  9 months agoPost 6
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Motor timing
To heli fanatix: I'm not trying to be sarcastic to you. I just don't want to waste people's time on something this daunting. I have a hobbywing Skywalker 50 amp ESC with a 4000 kV brushless outrunner in a trex clone

I know how Icarus felt

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09-09-2017 02:32 AM  9 months agoPost 7
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Motor timing
Hey Juan I'm about 45 minutes south of you. I looked at 700 logo NICE you have the chance to do a hurricane in a hurricane. I set the timing higher on my 450 and less bog. But its a problem of heat on my 500 trex clone I am talking about. Maiden flight yesterday.

I know how Icarus felt

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09-09-2017 02:17 PM  9 months agoPost 8
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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TIMING & PWM
Motor Timing (in a nut shell)

Lower:
More efficient consuming less current and runs cooler

Medium:
The middle of the road between efficiency and performance, current and temp.

Higher:
More performance consuming higher current and runs hotter

Recommendation:
Use the lowest setting possible. Too low and the motor starts making screeching sounds (cogging as in out of sync). You cant miss that horrible teeth clenching sound. In essense, think of timing as the difference between cruising and racing.

Pulse Width Modulation (PWM)

Formula:
Voltage x Motor Kv × MPC ÷ 20 = PWM

Voltage use 3.7 per cell
Motor Kv rated RPM per Volt applied
Motor Pole Count is amount of magnets glued to outer bell/shell for outrunners.

Use the closest rounded up or down number available on your ESC.

Monitor ESC and Motor temperatures before and after making changes to settings.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-09-2017 04:04 PM  9 months agoPost 9
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

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my two cents..
Buy quality components..Esc; motor; etc.; you don't have to buy the most expensive stuff..then read the instructions that come from the manufacturers and follow their recommendations..make sure to have an esc that will easily handle the load; it's better to have a higher amp rating ..check your temps after a few minutes of flight until you're sure everything's happy together..and you won't have any problems..searching these forums for any problems you encounter can be really helpful!

I do a great decending funnel!

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09-09-2017 07:56 PM  9 months agoPost 10
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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I think that we could use a good discussion on selecting the proper motor timing setting in the ESC.

A good long technical discussion. I would read most of it.

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09-15-2017 03:00 PM  9 months agoPost 11
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Most motor manufacturers have recommended timing settings for their motors and most ESC's won't allow the user to go too low or too high on the timing. Low or mid timing are safe options and will work great 99.9% of the time.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-19-2017 12:58 AM  8 months agoPost 12
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Motor timing
Is it true that brushless motors have a sweet spot? Meaning a certain rpm that they like or are most efficient? Internal combustion engines do. Out of the motors that I have all have different magnetic strength. From easy to turn by hand to harder. What does this mean? They all work but my new motor by align seems to have a lot more power and has the most Manet strength. I had a boom strike and increased the head speed and now my 450 is louder but its the best it's ever been by far!!! What can I read to understand BL motors?

I know how Icarus felt

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10-19-2017 01:27 AM  8 months agoPost 13
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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An ESC with "active freewheeling" can automatically adjust itself to optimize for the motor's timing....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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10-19-2017 01:45 AM  8 months agoPost 14
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Motor timing
OK that explains things a bit. On my 250 size it does not have that feature and my 450 does. I want to have my electronics work well together. More balanced than just hodgepodge. Thanks.

I know how Icarus felt

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10-19-2017 02:22 AM  8 months agoPost 15
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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That's why I really like an ESC with auto-timing.....

No guess work, no frustration....just let it do it's thing....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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10-19-2017 03:34 PM  8 months agoPost 16
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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The higher the rpm (within the motors rpm range) will be the most efficient.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-19-2017 05:06 PM  8 months agoPost 17
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Motor timing
Is it true that brushless motors have a sweet spot? Meaning a certain rpm that they like or are most efficient?
Brushless motors are most efficient at or close to their rated RPM.
Out of the motors that I have all have different magnetic strength. From easy to turn by hand to harder. What does this mean?
Rating (gauss), Size (dimension) Shape (curved, flat, etc.)

Example 1: (Gauss or Rating)
Two same size magnets with different ratings such as N42 vs N50
The higher the N number, the higher its magnetic force (also more brittle)

Example 2: (Size)
Two different size magnets with same N42 rating. The bigger magnet will have greater magnetic force than smaller one

Example 3: (Gauss and Size)
A smaller magnet with a high N rating versus a bigger magnet with a lower N rating will have same magnetic force

Example 4: (Shape)
Two different shaped magnets with same N rating will also affect its holding strength due to surface contact (ball shape versus a flat bar)

** For brushless motors, a curved magnet is better than a flat bar **
What can I read to understand BL motors?
Here's a good start...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bru..._electric_motor

Look up Wye versus Delta windings.

The term "Active free-wheeling" is actually "Synchronous Rectification". A better circuitry for ESC to work more efficient, thus running cooler.

Auto Timing same as Dynamic Timing. FWIW, your Castle ESC has it.

Proper Gearing and Set-up goes a longer way than your hard earned (retirement) money.

It is great that you are taking into the intricacies of electrics...so much to learn and apply.

Check your PM!

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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