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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › Expo
09-06-2017 07:39 AM  13 months agoPost 1
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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It seems like I may start a debate on this but I want to know what people think about using expo on helicopters I have never changed mine from the factory 30 percent on a devo 7 the two schools of thought are keep some till you learn and learn without it as to make you better faster my goal is 3d so do the good pilots use it? I think it's there for a reason but seldom talked about who uses it and why?

I know how Icarus felt

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09-06-2017 04:03 PM  13 months agoPost 2
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Troy, IL. 62294

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I don't use it, but I think almost everyone else does.

I don't because on my first heli I owned, I knew nothing and had my LHS set it up after I built it. They didn't set up any expo in the Tx and I learned to fly without it for years. ( This happened because this was life before the internet )

Less expo isn't a sign that you are a better pilot, it is all personal preference and what number is irrelevant, set it so that it feels good to you.

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09-06-2017 04:19 PM  13 months agoPost 3
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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yep as flying for Jesus said, it is all down to preference,
I like sensitive sticks so when I move a little the heli moves,when I first started to fly I had loads of expo as I was prone to heavy stick inputs, the only danger with having a lot of expo is you can move the stick and nothing happens then all of a sudden as you move away from centre zone you suddenly get loads of input so I found you needed a good balance between the two. which took time to learn.

All The Best

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09-06-2017 04:33 PM  13 months agoPost 4
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
OK I will try without expo it's another reason to fly at least that's what I'm going to tell my wife ha ha. A problem I still have though I'm getting better is when I move my thumbs sideways I arch them down a bit so piro heli drops rolling heli goes back a bit should I learn the forefinger and thumb method?

I know how Icarus felt

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09-06-2017 06:49 PM  13 months agoPost 5
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Adding EXPO "forgives" that non linear side movement you are experiencing. You can just add enought to offset such.

Older folks that no longer have steady hands or the nervous beginner also benefit from such. Makes their flight look good.

There are a few radio$ that you can actually offset the gimbal by as much as 10° in order to better follow your thumbs natural path but eventually you learn to do without such a nice feature.

While adding EXPO does have its merits, there is the caveat that you are also dumbing down your servos speed (response) which kind of defeats getting them to begin with.

However, you can have your cake and eat it too where you use EXPO for scale flying and none for 3D.

As mentioned, it's all a personal setting and opinions will vary.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-06-2017 07:28 PM  13 months agoPost 6
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
Thanks pistol Pete that sounds good some expo when sport flying and none doing 3d I saw your in the mentoring program I post on the general and the newbie forum. I live in Hudson and I'm sure it would benefit me greatly to meet you my user name is 3d or bust when my uncle who fly's planes showed me a video of extreme heli moves I thought omg he's flying a heli upside down and cutting the grass I have to do that before I die hence 3dorbust it's a great friendly hobby. I have a decent 450 I can bring that I also have a xk k120 that can do any extreme 3d move my brain can think of but my thumbs can't I wish I can be with someone like you when I start flipping and flying inverted!

I know how Icarus felt

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09-06-2017 07:44 PM  13 months agoPost 7
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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As already mentioned, expo is a personal preference.....

The use of a simulator before you go out and cut some grass while inverted, priceless . Get my drift ???

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-06-2017 08:21 PM  13 months agoPost 8
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
Yes I defiantly get it so many pilots have stressed getting a sim I don't know what one to get I want to use my transmitter I have gotten this far without one as I was not born last night a good sim a smart move before I start 3d with my 450 I also want to get with pistol Pete I just found out he and club are fairly close to me yes I crashed some along the way it may seem odd but my blade nano qx gave me Lot's of stick time and tough is an understatement

I know how Icarus felt

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09-06-2017 08:24 PM  13 months agoPost 9
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Pistol Pete will be able to suggest a simulator for you .....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-06-2017 08:43 PM  13 months agoPost 10
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
Have you used one Juan? I have not my local H.S. just closed it's doors big bummer for me they had one I should have used it so you have been there and done that maybe you might help me with just a minute of your time by telling me one that you can suggest you cared enough to mention them and now I may have to buy it online as Ol faithful hobby shop is gone thanks

I know how Icarus felt

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09-06-2017 09:34 PM  13 months agoPost 11
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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When I first learned how to hover (late 80's ?) , simulators as we know them today were not around yet...... so I did it the hard way and had a LOT of boom strikes on my first heli, a used Shuttle .

Next was forward flight . I was proficient at flying planks so seeing the aircraft "in the pattern" and away at a distance was not an issue. Ulfinator (Ulf Andersson) was my initial mentor and we would pass the transmitter back and forth and that's how I learned forward flight.......

Later on I met Ray Stacy (Kyle Stacy's dad) and I discovered that buddy boxing with a heli was very doable. It was Ray that got me into aerobics..... thanks Ray !!

I can't remember exactly when I bought a decent simulator (RealFlight) but it was instrumental in learning new maneuvers on both helis (inverted hovering, autos) and planks (rolling circles, inverted, knife edge, etc)

While there is merit in wanting to use your transmitter to run the simulator, it's not mandatory..... you can pick up an older version of RealFlight in the range of version 5-6 for a song and it includes their Interlink transmitter......

Anyway, it's up to you..... but I highly recommend you get and use one ....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-06-2017 10:09 PM  13 months agoPost 12
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
OK sweet I do have 3 transmitters that I use I just have one I like but I agree it's the screen I should be paying attention to so great real flight on my list thanks I do need to get used to orientation flying forward away at an angle then at me at the same angle is tough for me that was one of my crashes I messed up and went full forward and by by heli all I could do was hit throttle hold and go get it out of a tree I'm new to forums if there is etiquette I'm clueless of it but I put a value on a pilots time and info if you want to can you suggest a decent motor and ESC it's all that's left for me to hop up my 450 and why I started on this site it will be a help to me thanks

I know how Icarus felt

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09-07-2017 07:55 PM  13 months agoPost 13
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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SiM
Of the two I have had hands-on, I prefer Realflight over Phoenix

However, Phoenix does have free updates unlike Realflight. The updates are more "additional models" oriented versus fixes or bugs.

Either one will help you reach your goals. There is no wrong one.

As Juan said, a used version 5 or 6 could be had for a song (or less than 100). The latest Realflight is v7.5.

It practically pays for itself the first night versus crashing the real deal, specially if 3D is your goal.

We have an open house (any aircraft) on Sept 16th, that would be a great day to make it over. We will have smoked ribs...that alone is worth the trip. Check website for updates.

Check events area here in RR for other local events such as TCRC...Tripple Creek RC in Riverview on the 28th Oct. where Nick Maxwell will be along with other top notch F3C pilots. Bring a chair!

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-07-2017 09:36 PM  13 months agoPost 14
3dorbust

rrNovice

Hudson Florida usa

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Expo
I seen that the 16th is open house and I'm going. Juan has steered me right on getting a sim I already got one coming. The fact that your club is less than an hour away is great. I spent about $650 all toll on a blade cp ten years ago I guess my ego made me go it alone two days and three flights later I had a pile of junk so I gave up. Been sport flying my 450 for about 6 months now and want to start 3d.

I know how Icarus felt

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09-16-2017 11:32 PM  13 months agoPost 15
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The only place I've ever used EXPO is on the rudder. Using EXPO to flatten the servo response curve around neutral made for a smoother flying heli. I used just enough so a slightly wandering throttle thumb didn't show up in the tail.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-16-2017 11:36 PM  13 months agoPost 16
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Phoenix updates consist of new models, new flying sites, and most importantly, new versions of software -- bug fixes and whole new major revisions along the way.

I bought my original version of Phoenix way way way back when it was version 1.04i. It is now at the latest version, 5.5.L, and all of those updates were free, online, easy, and fast to incorporate. Never had an upgrade problem. Somewhere around version 3 or 4 as I recall, the updates became automatic -- Phoenix would detect a new version available, and automatically download and install it.

Phoenix seems to have not rolled out an update for many moons, now, however. It has been at 5.5.L for long time. But it does the job, and I've enjoyed using it.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-27-2017 01:50 PM  13 months agoPost 17
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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the only danger with having a lot of expo is you can move the stick and nothing happens then all of a sudden as you move away from centre zone you suddenly get loads of input
That may happen if you had WAY too much expo, like 60% or more.

I've always had 20-30% expo on cyclic but then im a thumb flyer and like really short sticks so there is also that to consider.
Thanks pistol Pete that sounds good some expo when sport flying and none doing 3d
Expo is a factor of how much cyclic pitch/degrees/sec you are running so if you are set for sport flying with minimal cyclic then you won't need much if any expo. If you are set for 3D with huge cyclic throw/speed then you are going to almost NEED expo! 3D plane flyers use 50% or more expo!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-17-2017 12:39 PM  12 months agoPost 18
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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That may happen if you had WAY too much expo, like 60% or more.
I've always had 20-30% expo on cyclic but then im a thumb flyer and like really short sticks so there is also that to consider

I'm a pincher with longer sticks, I currently on futaba have 95% TRAVEL AND 20 - 25% EXPO

All The Best

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11-17-2017 07:40 PM  11 months agoPost 19
Andy from Sandy

rrElite Veteran

Bedfordshire, UK

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Regardless of what you use expo for the reality is as Pistol Pete wrote at the top it is actually for correcting the rotary motion to get a linear output to the control surface.

I doubt the likes of Futaba and JR put it in as a dumbing down feature.

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11-19-2017 04:39 PM  11 months agoPost 20
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

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I agree 100% with PistolPete!

Assuming if we are working on a Linear Curve for Rudder, Aileron & Elevator
- using 20% Expo
- I like to call it a deviation from 0-100 normal [linear curve]
- not too much
- when we go to 21 and up
- it's not too far from back to the normal curve
- movements seems smooth
- call it the Canadian dollar vs US dollar
- currently $.75 vs $1.00 respectively

Now let's take it to 40% Expo
- it's gonna be dumb down, desensitize or slowed till we get pass 40
- now there's more of a gap from the normal [linear curve]
- when we from 40 to 41
- won't be a smooth transition
- call it the Canadian dollar vs US dollar but slap on middle man fee
- currently $.60 vs $1.00 respectively

What I have use to desensitize the TX sticks to decrease the interactions is use Dead Band on your FBL.
- let's you maintain the linear curve
- helps slow down the movement from center

That is why when you look at the TX
- Notice on the bottom of screen
- Input vs Output

if you put 20% Expo
- Notice the value of the output vs input

if you put 40% Expo
- The value of output vs input
- more significant and a bigger deviation

Also lower the voltage will decrease the speed and keep your BEC stable.

The actual key is to use less stick movement. I see pilots yanking the sticks and they increase the expo to compensate.

Different type of pilots:
- Thumbers have lot of movement
- Pinchers has Expo built in and movements are less than thumber
- Hybrid [thumb on top and finger on side of sticks] are in between

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