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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › AMA Pro Class Discussion
09-06-2017 03:26 AM  9 months agoPost 1
chas1025

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TN

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There has been a bit of discussion about the possibility of adding a new AMA Class. This could be called the AMA Pro Class.

Here are some thoughts for this additional class:

Right now, the expert class is the top class in the AMA classes. You have two choices, stay there forever, or move to the official F3C class.

Many pilots do not have the time to learn two full sets of maneuvers for the F3C class. The P and F schedule.

For those pilots, the AMA Pro class could provide an in between class. One that lets them fly and be judged with the F3C pilots, but would not require them to learn two schedules. The AMA Pro Class would mirror the P schedule F3C maneuvers, which means the maneuvers would be changed at each normal FAI schedule change.

Is there interest in creating a new top level AMA Class? If there is, we need to talk with Mike/Tim/Craig about getting things written and submitted for next year.

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09-06-2017 01:25 PM  9 months agoPost 2
Munger

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North Lewisburg

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I think it's a good idea. It would make the transition to F3C a little easier should the competitor aspire to do that.

However I don't think we need another class. 3 AMA classes is enough.

How about we just decide to make the expert class maneuvers equal to the F3C P schedule?

When in doubt slam the collective it won't help but it will end the suspense

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09-06-2017 04:15 PM  9 months agoPost 3
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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They did that in AMA pattern....

Masters Class......uses older F3A pattern schedules......

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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09-10-2017 06:34 AM  9 months agoPost 4
Robert "Full" Montee

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Fredericksburg, Virginia

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I would like to see a 4th competition class created that mirrors the FAI F3C Schedule P in maneuvers and updates.

Robert "Full" Montee | Team Synergy | Team Futaba

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09-10-2017 05:46 PM  9 months agoPost 5
Munger

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North Lewisburg

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OK

I guess we have a few options

1. Do nothing. Leave all well enough alone. Expert guys either have to make the jump to F3C or stay in Expert class

2. Make a new class. New class would change every 2 years along with the F3C schedule. We would make it the P schedule only

3. Make the expert class the P schedule and do not make a new class.

4. Do an unofficial class this coming year at the Nats. Call it AMA Master Heli and fly schedule P. We see how many people we get in the class and then consider it as an official class in 2019.......

Thoughts?

Who would enter this class?

I for one would do this class. However right now I am just trying to win Class 1 so I am a few years out right now.

When in doubt slam the collective it won't help but it will end the suspense

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09-10-2017 07:50 PM  9 months agoPost 6
Robert "Full" Montee

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Fredericksburg, Virginia

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I like the idea of a Master competition class.
I will fly an FAI F3C schedule in 2018.
Whether it is the Master or F3C class.
I would prefer it is the Master Comp class.

Robert "Full" Montee | Team Synergy | Team Futaba

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09-14-2017 01:14 AM  9 months agoPost 7
rc-ham

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Thompsons Station, TN - USA

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My preference would be to keep the AMA Expert class as is, and add the F3C Master class as a stepping stone to get to FAI for those that are preparing to make the jump. Going directly from Advanced to the current schedule P would be a rather big jump, at least for me anyway.

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09-14-2017 05:29 PM  9 months agoPost 8
Salesmanheliboy

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Nashville, TN

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Really good discussion!

I think.ther are 3 or four pilots making this move and should ultimately have the choice.

It makes.the most sense to have a master's class in order to always have a smooth transition to F3C.

The expert class ( all.ama classea) have not been refreshed in many years.

From my point of view, let's just add the master's in2018 and get a feel.for it's success.

Tim DiPeri

Futaba - Kontronik -SAB Helicopters - GensAce -http://rotorworld.co.uk/

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09-14-2017 11:58 PM  9 months agoPost 9
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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HUH
All three of you flying want to create a new class. If there were 80 entrees I might agree. Actually we had talked about eliminating one class so there would be competition.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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09-15-2017 01:13 AM  9 months agoPost 10
Salesmanheliboy

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Nashville, TN

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Elimination of a class.

I think that will happen anyway but, having a "P" class be the expert class (if that works out that way) is makes a number of aspects easier (judging especially).

Probably need to upgrade the novice class slightly (perhaps remove a hover and add another aerobatic) as well as the intermediate class (again, substitute an aerobatic for a hover possible add an optional auto rotation). Most of us agree that the P schedule is no more difficult then the current expert class.

Bottom line is that we are seeing some additional interest in 2017 and we should be open to what the pilots are interested in.

My vote is to try it; adding a "P" only will really take no additional work but have a test.

Tim

Futaba - Kontronik -SAB Helicopters - GensAce -http://rotorworld.co.uk/

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09-15-2017 02:23 AM  9 months agoPost 11
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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New Rules
I wrote the last three sets of AMA rules and think that overall they have worked pretty well BUT they are now dated and in need of revision. I'd be glad to review any proposals but am way too busy now to do the actual work,,,, and it is work.
By the way, 4 years ago P was probably too difficult for an "Expert" pilot of average ability. Even P schedule now has LOTS of traveling, climbing, and descending pirouettes and is really hard to do well. I have done it for two years and still really suck at it.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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09-15-2017 02:49 AM  9 months agoPost 12
Munger

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North Lewisburg

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I am more inclined to leave the classes alone. No one is complaining about Class 1-3 in terms of maneuvers and participation is up each year in the past 3. Don't mess with a good thing.

The only current complaint is Expert which no one entered last year. Unless you want to make the commitment to learn F3C and 2 schedules it hasn't been updated in a long time and doesn't change often enough.

Anyway my proposal is we add the Master Class as a unofficial class for 2018 Nats schedule P only.

Then at the 2018 Nats we all talk about if and what changes we want to make for 2019 Nats for all Classes

Make sense ?

When in doubt slam the collective it won't help but it will end the suspense

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09-15-2017 05:34 AM  9 months agoPost 13
fastrc1

rrKey Veteran

Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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IMHO, Leave Expert alone and Make "P"/Masters Class a provisional for next years NATS. I think i'd give it a shot.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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09-17-2017 02:19 AM  9 months agoPost 14
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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Schedule P
Guys,
I flew P today and will tell you, that it's the easier of the two but is still not simple. It has all traveling pirouettes in the hovering and a couple of the aerobatic maneuvers, including an auto, that are crashable. If you really want to fly it as a provisional event at the NATS, go out and TRY the schedules, then come back and work on it and I'll be happy to judge as I am VERY familiar with P.
Sportsman is about as generic as we could get. The reason there are three hovering maneuvers is to keep the K factors at 1. In P and F there are only two but they are K factored to 1.5 so the two hovering maneuvers score the same as three maneuvers K factored 1. In a beginning class, a bad hovering maneuver K factored 1.5 will completely kill a score for that round.
By the way, it is nice to hear guys talking about contest flying again after the last few years. I encourage you to keep going and recruit some new guys to try it this year. Good Lord willing, I will be back to judge this year.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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09-17-2017 03:36 AM  9 months agoPost 15
fastrc1

rrKey Veteran

Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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I guess it's also worth it to take a look @ the F3C Sport maneuvers as well. The latest schedule I have is 2016. Maneuvers are Flower, Cup, Double Candle with pushed flips, pullback with half loop, UX, Oval, Half rolls, Double Loop, and ends with a 180° Auto.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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09-17-2017 03:41 AM  9 months agoPost 16
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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P
1. Flower
2. Cup
3. Double Candle with Flips
4. Pullback with three half loops
5. UX
6. Oval with flip
7 2 Half and full inverted roll
8. Loop with Flip
9. Loop with 180 degree auto

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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09-17-2017 05:17 AM  9 months agoPost 17
Robert "Full" Montee

rrApprentice

Fredericksburg, Virginia

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Eaton,
Best I can tell those F3C sport maneuvers look like another country's version of our AMA classes. Good maneuvers but I would rather fly the current FAI schedule P.

Me personally after running two smaller contests and helping with others. I would only suggest we make things clearer for the Sportsman class. New competition pilots do not appear to understand the layout of the maneuvers over the flying area. A demo flight and a little Q&A usually solves this. However, It would be nice if potential pilots understood this on their own and could practice. This way they feel more confident when they decide to enter a contest.

Advanced could use some verbiage updates around the Loop with roll to make sure the drawing and words agree with one another. Adopting the F3C verbiage and calling it an oval with roll may make more sense.
"180-Degree Translational Landing" add a statement that the motor may be powered on or off for this maneuver.

Robert "Full" Montee | Team Synergy | Team Futaba

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