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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › 14 Posts
08-04-2017 11:19 PM  12 months agoPost 1
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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2002-2015
https://rc.runryder.com/search/?q=I...&u=1&st=1&so=-2

The last one (2015) has zero replies. A lot of work with big bucks invested in hardware, software and camera equipment. Now the economics are upside down. The RR IRCHA event coverage topic for 2008 was the peak with (241) replies and (207925) views. Those were the days. The Ex filed for divorce that year. It's all been down hill ever since.

rrTV and Photos
https://rc.runryder.com/rrTV-Photo/

Mark Ryder

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08-05-2017 01:47 AM  12 months agoPost 2
Doublah

rrKey Veteran

USA

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Yeah, I feel for you Mark. Was thinking about the other day all the professional camera equipment you have had and all the time, money and energy filming, traveling and editing you have done. Whatever happened to your daughter that was doing the still camera shots and some interviews? You have definitely poured your heart into RunRyder!!

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08-05-2017 02:21 AM  12 months agoPost 3
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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Thanks my daughter's have moved on to raise their children and run new households of their own.

Mark Ryder

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08-05-2017 02:30 AM  12 months agoPost 4
InvertedDude

rrVeteran

USA

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Mark Ryder
Keep the faith, it is all we got going forward.

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08-05-2017 05:06 AM  12 months agoPost 5
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Yes, I miss seeing you and her run around IRCHA filming and doing interviews.

I'm there now but haven't been since 2011.

Times sure do change.

Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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08-06-2017 03:49 AM  12 months agoPost 6
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

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great achievements often go unrecognized. .
You have definitely put forth an amazing effort in all of this..Thank you!..I'm sure it was a "labor of love" for the hobby! It's a difficult thing to make lots of $$ documenting a hobby..many people love to fly-fish but who would pay to watch somebody do it?. You do have a large number of vids showing the yearly progression of the best heli pilots ever..maybe you could assemble a "super video" and market it on disc to reap some financial rewards..you have built an amazing site and survived while others have not..what ever happened to that guy from Las Vegas who tried to sell heli vids?

I do a great decending funnel!

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08-06-2017 04:35 AM  12 months agoPost 7
Dr.Tim

rrElite Veteran

Mojave Desert

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Mark! It's been awhile since I have had the time to stop in and see what is going on .. Sure do hate to see you leave your passion behind. I know that this hobby and website has been your lover for many years! You are really good at what you do. Hate to see this and hope you have another adventure planned! Miss you my old friend! We really need to sit down and talk about our lives over the past 25 years ..
Till then keep safe, Keep well and know there are a lot of folks that love what you do and look forward to simply seeing what is next!

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Approach Engineering

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08-06-2017 02:26 PM  12 months agoPost 8
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Mark... I wonder. The sum total number of posts 2002-2015 represents 1,200ish posts - and that just one fly-in. Maybe people have run out of fly-in posts.?.?

How many times can you post, "Can't wait to get there", or, "Had a great time", or, "See you next year". Sure there are other posts, like, "Lots more nitro this year", or, "That flight by _____ was awesome" but even those have been done to death.

I sometimes think all fly-in threads are simply one topic. Even though the individual fly-ins are fantastic experiences and they are all at different times and places, from the perspective of discussion items, they are all very similar. Threads about air-frames, motors, FBL controllers, etc are all different in the sense that there is discussion about how to build, tune, adjust, upgrade, etc that item. Each thread is specific and unique.

So. Maybe people still like fly-ins and appreciate your efforts to support and cover them but just don't talk about them like they used to.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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08-06-2017 03:58 PM  12 months agoPost 9
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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they are all very similar
Yesterday I got up at 3am and drove to Muncie (7 hours round trip) for the day. Besides being shocked at what I saw (compared to 2015), I have come to the conclusion that my event coverage has gotten every shot there is to get. Thus the lack of enthusiasts interest or replies. I have no problem working hard spending time, money and resources covering events but the economics are completely upside down. Yesterday I witnessed enormous sums of marketing dollars being ineffectively spent. If I can't convey this fact to the powers at be then the RR business model is doomed.

In 2008 RR had 105 advertisers. Today down to five and unsustainable.

Mark Ryder

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08-06-2017 04:57 PM  12 months agoPost 10
Doublah

rrKey Veteran

USA

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As much as I love this site and visit it everyday, I do not see how Mark can keep it going. 5 advertisers???? I used to see 800 people online and now I see around 300 most of the time. I selfishly want this to stay around forever, because it is so well done and loads of info, but lately there are more posts on off topics and politics which has nothing to do with our hobby. I wish things would turn around, badly....just do not see it happening anytime soon. Sorry Mark, as you have done TREMENDOUS work!!!

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08-06-2017 07:41 PM  12 months agoPost 11
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Hello Mark

I believe your business model was effective back in the day for many reason including the following:

-Very little good YouTube content

-Minimal social media

-Hobby in infancy so many so every one was learning for each others mistakes

-Forums were more popular for niche information like this

Fast forward to today:

-Lots of good YouTube content (setup tips and guides)

-Younger people want instant gratification and don't like to read as much

-Helis are much better and easier and simpler to setup

-Its easier to advertise on social media (and its free) and YouTube and you can get paid for video views by Google.

-FPV/Drone Racing has wrecked the RC heli (and other) markets

-Stagnant RC helicopter technology (no real innovations in a long time)...we have fully integrated flybarless/radio technology that can be mounted in helis with extreamly nice brushless servos with motors so powerful helis can travel at over 100mph not to mention the almost limitless power for 3D. Unless they make micro nuke reactors for the helis what else can they do?

This site has captured so much modern history of this hobby that I would even say this is more valuable than the museum in Munchies. This site has our transition from FM to 2.4 (no more frequency pins), micro helicopter crazy, the failure of Thunder Tiger to the Rise of Align (and possible fall due to the hobby being stagnet), the rise of DJI, it has the transition from nitro to electric for super high performance flight, and it has the transition from flybar to flybarless, and finally it has the transition from disjointed electronics tuning to fully integrated flight systems. The problem is the future is now and for many people don't care about history.

You have all the gear but you have to do it differently today. If I recall your goal is to have a self contained site that the masses come to (due to availability) and see advertisements while participating in the forums. The advertisers know you are getting clicks to they pay for your service.

Well that may not be the best way to do it anymore. Many advertisers have their own youtube channels or sponsored pilots who show those logos in videos in social media. Some how you will have to get those key pilots on the pay roll and have shops pay for ad space on their social media or YouTube splash page.

Bottom line is go where the click are and figure out how to get those clicks on our outlet. It will be like your a race care team owner and you hired all the cool young stud drivers/pilots. One simple example of modernization is having an Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube accounts.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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08-06-2017 08:11 PM  12 months agoPost 12
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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Good summary of RR history.
It will be like your a race care team owner and you hired all the cool young stud drivers/pilots. One simple example of modernization is having an Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube accounts.
This new economy is all about delivering at the lowest possible cost. RR has the lowest operating costs and has recently lowered its ad pricing. RR will only have hires that develop the technology that drives the site's traffic. It's about aggregating end user generated content. Not managing temperamental personalities.

Facebook and the like are highly disjointed and inefficient for consuming highly focused special interests. I did get some valuable feedback yesterday about making RR more Facebook like in certain areas. Stay tuned.

Thanks for the feedback.

Mark Ryder

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08-06-2017 08:29 PM  12 months agoPost 13
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Maybe if you find yourself being creative how about making a RR YouTube channel

You could do a variety of topics
Plus you already have the videos

spending time, paying attention

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08-06-2017 08:39 PM  12 months agoPost 14
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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But with all the other media outlets out there it will be a challenge to figure out how to make RR a prefered source of information and the question I have...is it worth the time and effort to structure anything new around what appears to be a declining market?

I love and will always love rc helis but at least at my local fields the heli people are racing and crashing multirotors, their helis have not seen airtime in a long time...not sure of the trend at other fields.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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08-07-2017 01:52 AM  12 months agoPost 15
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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Really sad to see this place go, but don't bury yourself trying to keep it afloat. After spending the week at IRCHA and having seen the growth from 2002 to 2009 and then the decline since, I'll be surprised if the Jamboree survives another 3 years.
I'll still go as long as it's held, but I was really disappointed in vendor attendance this year.
The industry as a whole is way down. Someone mentioned earlier that there are minimal advances in recent years as far as flight capabilities. There have been some great advances in integrations which I really like but not much else. I was talking with some guys during the battle of the brands. No real new capabilities that we didn't have 7-10 years ago. Flyers have created new maneuvers but they are just expansions of old maneuvers.
I'll keep flying my helis along with my old control line planes, RC planes and quads. This is a resource I'll really miss but don't go broke trying to keep it alive.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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08-07-2017 03:26 AM  12 months agoPost 16
RyeGuy83

rrApprentice

Crest Hill, IL - United States

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...coming from a younger pilot...
I started flying helis back about 14 years ago when I was 20 and just about to get married. My father-in-law used to fly with Dwight Shilling and Curtis Youngblood many years ago. I have also attended the last 10 years of the IRCHA Jamboree and volunteered for the last 9.

I have also seen the rise of our hobby both at the Jamboree and at the LHS. I used to love going into the store and seeing the Raptor 90s, TRex 700s, etc hanging from the ceiling... wondering when I'd be good enough to be able to pilot one. I started off with a Blade 400 as my first "real" helicopter, and am now in possession of 14 helicopters, including 2 mini quads and a drone. This next year, I'll finally be building my first 700-sized machine and an FPV racing drone.

The Jamboree reached its height while I was volunteering at around 1200 or so pilots, with numerous vendors and at least 7 places you could buy parts from. Going into this year... only 700 pilots and 3 places you could get parts from. The best deals you could find this year were from other pilots trying to sell their old or unused gear.

Many vendors, manufactures, and teams don't even show up anymore until later Friday afternoon. I agree with Mark that many more companies are limiting their marketing potential if this event. There isn't many new innovations in our hobby lately.. but how many more could you possibly have. Honestly... what really separates one brand from another these days? Quality of materials? Customer Service? Cost?

Most machines are DFC now.. most are carbon fiber frames with either a belt or shaft-driven tail... they all fly and land.. they break sometimes due to structural stress and pilot error. So what is really going to change? There are now quads, drones, multi-rotors, and VTOLs.... so it really only leaves the electronics that can improve and make flying easier.

But as someone newer to this hobby.. I feel that is important to have information from other builds, and tips for tuning your helicopters and motors, etc. without RR.. none of my birds would have gotten off the ground. The information on this site / forum is priceless to so many people and was a huge part of their life.

It is sad to see the state of the hobby and the stress that it puts on everyone, including Mark. It sucks to think that this site would ever go down and that the companies out there wouldn't help support one of the main reasons many of us even bought their brands. It wasn't the marketing they paid for on this page, but rather the information and support system we had as pilots in each other about those helicopters, engines, and electronics that drove us to buy them.

Mark, it was great to see you this year and I'm very glad that you were able to make it, even for a day. I'm sorry that you had to see it for what it was. I would gladly volunteer or help you out in whatever way I can to help keep this library of information and social capital alive.

AMA Member #914650
E-Flite Blade mCP x
Gaui Hurricane 425
HK600 GT FBL

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08-07-2017 04:08 AM  12 months agoPost 17
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Hello Mark

Regarding your point about being disjointed.

Regarding setup and getting things flying your absolutely right.

For the posting of videos, team pictures and new releases...

Just about every single mfg has a facebook page that I could think of.

I searched Minicopter, SAB heli, Mikado USA, Thunder Tiger. They all had pages and they all had followers, likes and many nice pictures.

It definitely not a consolidated forum of information but it is how people search and the places they search that is important.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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08-07-2017 03:01 PM  12 months agoPost 18
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Simple but honest answer:

Things change Mark... things change. We either roll with the punches and adapt or move onto other things. All business models must change to suit market conditions, and right now RC helicopters are in a serious decline, anyone who says they are not is in denial. We lost alot of magazines that supported it, AMA magazine didnt even bother including us into their magazine until what.. two years ago? add to the heavy decline of local hobby shops, rise of drones being sold EVERWHERE (gas stations, walmart, Target) and as it has already been stated the proliferation of youtube videos has undercut online support forums.

Many do not want to deal with the personal back and forth 'fan boy' BS that happens on forums especially when some are so very vocal about particular brands. I distinctly remember alot of rep members getting pinked as they constantly overstepped the boundaries of being a rep vs a non-rep in terms of insight on a particular problem.

Do I want to see this sight shut down... no. but its not any of our calls now is it. we dont pay into this sight, its free. How many would pay to be on the sight? (right now looking on my status bar 500 are online) of those online how many would pay a fee?... my bet is less than 10%... and honestly thats not enough to float you to next month.

I'll tell you one thing though... if RR goes down... my interest in the hobby will go down with it. and HF quite honestly is on the decline as well.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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08-07-2017 05:12 PM  12 months agoPost 19
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Since FBL came onto the scene!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-07-2017 05:19 PM  12 months agoPost 20
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"Since FBL came onto the scene!"

Come on....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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