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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why not nitro?
07-31-2017 04:03 PM  13 months agoPost 41
raspeitia

rrApprentice

US - WI

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I went ahead and gave specific examples for things I've dealt with over my 10 years of flying nitro helis. Both good and bad.

Please feel free to cite those and give your rebuttal on each one. Blanket statements don't help make informed decisions.

The OP asked about being smooth on pitch and I answered that that is not true. You can horribly manage collective on nitro or electric. I even gave him additional specifics because he is going to be dropping some money on a new nitro.

I loved my nitro and it flew awesome, but I moved on. Longer flight times are the only pro I see for a nitro, the rest of the cons I outlined outweigh those heartily in my point of view.

To each his own.

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07-31-2017 04:09 PM  13 months agoPost 42
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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To each his own.
+1. Lets leave it at that.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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07-31-2017 04:26 PM  13 months agoPost 43
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Nitro vs electric - - it's all a matter of price vs convenience.

Have you noticed the engine manufacturers are producing more gas motors ?

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07-31-2017 04:36 PM  13 months agoPost 44
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"cheese heads "

Not a GB Packer fan, eh?.....

I do know this....in some CA solvents, one of the active ingredients is nitromethane...."Hot Stuff" for example, one of the 1st CAs on the market.

Nitromethane will also dissolve the adhesive(color) on Monokote covering material.

Don't know about the plastic on TX cases, as I always wipe my hands before handling the TX before flying.

Depending upon the type of paint....or clear coat....nitromethane will "attack" it, too.

As will....of all things....some Texize cleaner products.

Also, NEVER EVER use a Fox glow plug on a YS engine....or you'll be sorry on the 1st run.....the element will be destroyed and go through your engine....

As mentioned, bearings are an issue....due to a chemical reaction with the nitro, methanol, and air....which attacks the metal over time.....non-petroleum based after-run oil helps minimize this.

This same chemical reaction will also attack the copper in fuel line connectors....and even in your fuel cans.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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07-31-2017 04:43 PM  13 months agoPost 45
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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If you stop the engine after a flight by closing the fuel line, refill the tank immediately, close the carb and use an exhaust bung your bearings will last ages. Also in winter keep the heli cold when you get home by storing in the garage, don't bring the heli inside to a warm humid house. OR just get a stainless steel bearing, they're not that expensive.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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07-31-2017 04:45 PM  13 months agoPost 46
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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On the subject of bearing replacement, if your piston sleeve seems stuck and difficult to remove during engine diassembly, try this:

After removing the cylinder head and back plate, move the piston to bottom dead center, and feed a zip-tie through the exhaust port....above the piston....and through the top of the cylinder sleeve.

Attach the prop....and use the prop as a lever to "force" the piston sleeve upwards and out.

The plastic zip-tie will then not damage the sleeve or the piston when force is applied to remove the sleeve....for further engine disassembly.

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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07-31-2017 05:41 PM  13 months agoPost 47
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

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Well raspeitia
from your posts it is very obvious that you run your engines on the
ragged edge of very lean everything in your posts point to this

If a glow engine is burning plugs a lot its lean
If the bearings need to be replaced a lot its lean

If the needles always need to be tweeked then your trying
to get every ounce of power out of the engine
and you going to end up with some lean runs

The hydroscopic properties of methanol alcohol is only half of the
problems with bearings

The other half is excessive heat from guess what LEAN RUNS

The discoloration on most bearings is not rust
it is baked on chemicals from glow fuel
mostly the nitro which destroys the bearings after becoming nitric acid

The cause heat from lean runs

Glow fuel is not sticky unless it has castor oil in it
Why they even still make fuel with castor is beyond me
unless Clarence Lee owns stock in the company

Glow fuel does not bother the plastics on a Transmitter
bug spray does

I could go on and on but I just wanted to post a rebuttal
for the OP

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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07-31-2017 05:45 PM  13 months agoPost 48
raspeitia

rrApprentice

US - WI

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Just to put these points into perspective from my point of view, its the convenience of it with no downside for me.
If you stop the engine after a flight by closing the fuel line, refill the tank immediately, close the carb and use an exhaust bung your bearings will last ages.
Have not worried about this with electric. Unplug battery and done.
Also in winter keep the heli cold when you get home by storing in the garage, don't bring the heli inside to a warm humid house.
Have not worried about this with electric. Fuel separation from main powerplant after flying is done is clean. Unplug battery store batteries separate. No residue to worry about in your heli to cause issues in your motor while it sits in your house.
OR just get a stainless steel bearing, they're not that expensive.
Have not worried about this with electric. The bearing that came in my motor is still good after 3 years with the required drops of oil called for by the manufacturer. Have not even given it a second thought if the stock motor bearing is not good enough with regards to the metallurgical make up of the bearing races, the ball material, or the cage material combinations.

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08-01-2017 12:47 AM  13 months agoPost 49
PaulBowen

rrKey Veteran

Victoria, Australia.

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Drops of oil in the bearings, just why I don't bother with Scorpion. I have been flying the same Kontronik Pyro 700 for about 5 years and never done a thing to it. Kontronik use quality bearings.

Glow plugs last for ages. Maybe I'm not as edgy and extreme as some!
Some people need extreme power to fully exploit their extreme skills.

Touch wood but I've never had a flame out from failing fuel lines. That's just poor maintenance and handling, full stop.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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08-01-2017 12:53 AM  13 months agoPost 50
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"Glow plugs last for ages."

They always fail before a contest round....unless they've been checked prior...

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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08-01-2017 07:39 AM  13 months agoPost 51
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Going through the pros and cons of electric or nitro has been done a thousand times and on that fact alone shows it's 50/50.

Loving the upkeep, tinkering and mechanical engineering of glow helis makes you a true heli fan.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-01-2017 11:49 AM  13 months agoPost 52
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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It would have been nice if the heli manufacturers put tuning tips etc. in their manuals instead of relying on the engine manufacturers manuals which are usually out dated and badly translated and are only a rough general guide. Too late now, too many people have jumped over to electric because of bad experiences due to lack of knowledge about running a nitro heli.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-01-2017 12:03 PM  13 months agoPost 53
870heli

rrVeteran

Monson Ma. USA

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I remember back when guys were using NiCad packs and telling us that electric was the future. I laughed at them, telling them they were wasting there time. That was like 1982 or 1983.
I guess I didn't have enough foresight.
Things change and always get better, I still have nitro's and fly them but they are a pain to take care of, clean up after and seam to need bearings a lot. The cost seams to be the big gap, engines and fuel. Time will tell.
870Heli

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08-01-2017 01:02 PM  13 months agoPost 54
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Batteries would have to get a lot better to kill nitro off completely. I mean better as in the difference between an old NiCad battery and todays Li-po's better! So yes maybe in another 35 years.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-01-2017 02:04 PM  13 months agoPost 55
adh1000

rrApprentice

coral springs,florida.usa

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i'm on the fence but leaning towards electric. I flew a lot of nitro planes and started out on a nitro shuttle followed by a concept 32 then 46vr . I practiced for a lot of hours with these heli's . they were by no means overpowered and I got as far as nose in hovering (no sims then)before stopping for a few years, coming back to the hobby 7 years later and things have moved on a lot, I did have a concept ep( NiCad powered) and it wasn't very impressive but did fly and I was able to fly it at my local park( in England) with no problems , nitro was banned in parks , so there was always a hankering for electrics.
I used to fly at the weekend for several hours and then spend at least 2 hours cleaning my fleet of heli's and planks before they were allowed in the house , the back of my car had protection for the trip home but accidents happen and the carpet had some oil on it. I did clean them before putting them in the car but once it got dark I didn't really do a good job needing to get home asap.
electrics are just more convenient for me, I can fly 20 minutes before work and not have to worry about oil or cleaning, plus fuel seems to be a limiting factor too , while I hate buying batteries I only have to do that about every 2 years , fuel would be at a very minimum once a month . so that's my opinion
Anthony

logo 480 , ikon
oxy 3 , ikon
Gaui x5 ,(?)
logo 550sx ,v bar

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08-01-2017 02:14 PM  13 months agoPost 56
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Fuel separation from main powerplant after flying is done is clean.
Now that is funny, good one !!

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-01-2017 02:27 PM  13 months agoPost 57
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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I went from nitro to gasser to electric over the years. I don't fly hard and hated the vibration of nitro and gasser.
1) Nitro needed fuel jug, glow starter, starter motor, starter motor battery, rags (to clean after flight),
2) Gasser needed fuel jug (I used camping coleman) and it was pull start.
3) Electric, just flight battery.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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08-01-2017 02:59 PM  13 months agoPost 58
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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electrics are just more convenient for me, I can fly 20 minutes before work and not have to worry about oil or cleaning, plus fuel seems to be a limiting factor too , while I hate buying batteries I only have to do that about every 2 years , fuel would be at a very minimum once a month . so that's my opinion
Yes but then to fly a 700 electric for 20 minutes without charging requires 8x 6s 5000 packs and that's if you get 5 minutes (I only get 4). 8x 6s 5000 packs is going to cost you at least a grand (UK) unless you are buying cheap packs from China. One flight a day on each pack is going to last you how ever many cycles your lucky enough to get out of the packs, 100? 150?. The same cost in nitro will get you the same flight time per day for roughly the same amount of days except the nitro power won't have dropped off as the packs will.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-01-2017 03:03 PM  13 months agoPost 59
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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3) Electric, just flight battery.
Just one?! So that's 5 minutes air time roughly! Charger? Power supply? Generator?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-01-2017 03:03 PM  13 months agoPost 60
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"Loving the upkeep, tinkering and mechanical engineering of glow helis makes you a true heli fan."

Or a glutton for punishment.....

j/k

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why not nitro?
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