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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What all could be the cause of tail wag now that wasn't there before ?
03-26-2017 12:50 PM  19 months agoPost 1
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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I know I've heard you guys mention a number of things that could cause this, and I'm planning on lowering the tail gain some to try first, and I need to read through the manual, especially since I didn't set this machine up. I've bought several helicopters as of late and this one came actually RTF. A trex 500 with the ikon FBL 6 axis. Haven't had a Pc until now. So now finally I can plug in. Same goes for my castle esc's. And maybe I wasn't seeing the wag a couple of months ago when I first bought it because I wasn't going fast enough, I feel like that could be a real possibility because I've progressed pretty fast and get to fly a little almost every day. But y'all tell me.. . First FFF couple months ago and first 3D maneuvers yesterday. I've checked for any mechanical binding and there doesn't seem to be any. Only at FFF and especially at turns I'm seeing an aggressive wag. You can hear it, it's loud, and unnerving. What do we think ? Lower the tail gyro gain by 5% or 10% ? If that's even how the system works.. or anything else come to mind I should adjust or check ?
Thanks gang

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03-26-2017 02:44 PM  19 months agoPost 2
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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It can be a few things, but the majority of the times you see this behavior it's the gain being too high for the tail. It's close, but too high when you are really moving. Worth looking at while you are in there is any binding in the pushrod, balls, slider etc since that can make it happen too, but I'd bet dropping it 5-10% will smooth it all out.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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03-26-2017 04:14 PM  19 months agoPost 3
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Troy, IL. 62294

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Yep, sounds like too high gain. Through a fast hard turn is where I get wag if my gain is too high.

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03-26-2017 07:22 PM  19 months agoPost 4
AWittleWabbit

rrElite Veteran

O.C., CA

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In addition to what Nick and flyin for Jesus said, I wanted to add that an increase in rotor rpm, increases the gain of the tail rotor system. If the wag happens only when hotdogging it and not hovering, I'd take a couple few percent off and try again.

If you can have different gains for each flight mode, the higher head speed modes tend to need less gain.

Heli-itis sufferer.

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03-26-2017 11:08 PM  19 months agoPost 5
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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Thanks guys. Exactly what I needed to hear. And yep. When I click into stunt modes at higher head speeds the problem is worse for sure. Almost immediate. And wagging sometimes even at hover at high HS.

Changing the tail gain in the radio will NOT work in the transmitter I'm told, right ?

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03-27-2017 12:05 AM  19 months agoPost 6
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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neutral tail pitch about 5-7 degrees in rate mode & wag free in Heading Hold

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03-27-2017 12:24 AM  19 months agoPost 7
AWittleWabbit

rrElite Veteran

O.C., CA

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Changing the tail gain in the radio will NOT work in the transmitter I'm told, right ?
Not sure what you mean. What radio do you use? I don't know the ikon so I'll let someone who knows it advise.

Heli-itis sufferer.

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03-27-2017 01:29 AM  19 months agoPost 8
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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That's what the seller told me. Yep. And maybe one other person on here. They made it sound like the tail gyro gain HAD to be changed in the unit. And not in the radio. Haven't set an ikon up yet. Only a beastx. And the beastx you change in the radio. So. New to me.

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03-27-2017 02:40 AM  19 months agoPost 9
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Cut and paste from IKON manual...

Gain:
Set the gyro gain from your Tx so that it shows a value of 45% on the panel. Depending on the transmitter you are using, either positive or negative gains will trigger the Heading Lock function on the panel.

During the first few flights, raise the tail gyro 5% at a time until the tail starts to shake (wag),then lower the gain 5% (optimum gain).

We recommend having around 10 flights to get accustomed to the units flying characteristics before fine tuning to suit your own preferences.

As for BeastX
Gain can be set by either FBL unit OR Tx.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-27-2017 03:26 AM  19 months agoPost 10
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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Ah wow. Ok. That's surprising. When I look at the gain in the controller it shows 0.0%.

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03-27-2017 05:08 AM  19 months agoPost 11
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Troy, IL. 62294

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Speaking as one not familiar with your Tx, but for the gain in the Tx to work, it has to output to the right channel in the Ikon. Gain on most of my FBLs are on the "gear" channel.
Since the manual posted above says the gain is shown on the computer screen, you can play with the Tx and see what actually changes the gain value in the Ikon. Just have everything hooked up and running except for blades or unwire the motor.

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03-27-2017 11:58 AM  19 months agoPost 12
adh1000

rrApprentice

coral springs,florida.usa

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had a similar problem and found the tail gain to be set to channel 5 in the software , you then have to assign a switch or slider to adjust channel 5 in your radio , and all should be well
Anthony

logo 480 , ikon
oxy 3 , ikon
Gaui x5 ,(?)
logo 550sx ,v bar

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03-27-2017 01:30 PM  19 months agoPost 13
iyoy

rrVeteran

Bacolod City, Philippines

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Microbeast PLUS and Futaba 14SG
This is what I have. It took me a while to figure out the Align and Microbeast manuals and it would have taken longer if not for the many very informative and practical videos on YouTube. It turned out to be a simple matter. Like what the other posters said, assign a free channel and a switch of your Tx for the tail gain. The videos showed the 'gear' channel for the 14SG and the 'SF' switch so I just followed that. The switch takes care of selecting 'normal' mode (for centering the rudder servo and trimming the rudder in hover) or 'heading hold' mode (for actual flight). Then it's just a matter of setting the end points or travel volume to the gain you need. In the Microbeast, the menu letter where the LED lights up indicates gain. In the picture, the LED is in menu letter 'M' or the second greatest gain. The blue LED indicates the 'heading hold' mode. Flicking the SF switch would change it to 'normal' mode.

To get the correct amount of gain, I started with a middle setting, I think 'G' then slowly worked my way up until the tail started to wag which was 'N' then backed off to the next lower setting which was 'M'.

You need to try it at your highest head speed which was IDLE UP 2 in my case and in all sorts of flight, fast forward, inverted, pitch pump, etc.

I hope this helps.

iyoy

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03-27-2017 01:56 PM  19 months agoPost 14
pH7

rrKey Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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To elaborate a bit on - "...assign a switch or slider to adjust channel 5 in your radio..."

If you choose some available slider on your Tx and map that slider to channel 5 output. You can look at the monitor screen to see that the value on channel 5 changes as you move it. The advantage is that you can actually move the slider CAREFULLY while you are flying and see if you like the results. The disadvantage is that you can accidently hit it and change your gain at any point.

If you use the "gear" switch (or other switch of your choice) on your Tx to control the "gear" channel (ch5). Then you will use the end point adjust for that channel to set the gain value. The advantage of this method is that the value is set on that screen of your transmitter, not on a lever that can be accidently move during flight. Once again, check the monitor display to see that ch 5 is acting as you expect.

Phil Heavin

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03-27-2017 08:37 PM  19 months agoPost 15
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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Great information guys thank you !!!

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03-28-2017 02:18 AM  19 months agoPost 16
pctomlin

rrVeteran

Texas

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It is possible the seller set up the tail gain adjustment to software (inside iKon program) and not on transmitter. Only way to know for sure is connect up to the iKon to your PC.

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03-28-2017 02:42 AM  19 months agoPost 17
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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Yep. After talking with him. He set it up in the software only
So I'll go in and lower the gain and should be fine

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03-28-2017 09:19 AM  19 months agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Another cause of tail wag is loose boom supports. It's common for the epoxy in the boom support ends to break loose. Also make sure you use Loctite on the boom support screws. A good way to check is to grip the rear of the frame firmly and try and move the boom side to side from the tail end as if replicating a tail wag. You will feel the play if anything is loose.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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03-28-2017 09:24 AM  19 months agoPost 19
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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Nice tip richardmid1 ! I'll be checking on that for sure !!

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03-28-2017 09:26 AM  19 months agoPost 20
joshreynolds777

rrApprentice

Willis, Tx

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I was finally able to adjust the tail gyro gain after getting the kids Pc out of the shop and getting the unit plugged in. Lowed the gain from 75% down to 65%. So we'll see. Will be trying out today

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What all could be the cause of tail wag now that wasn't there before ?
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