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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Futaba FASST › 14Sg & 7008, Collective is "GONE"
03-02-2017 07:21 AM  16 months agoPost 1
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Well, I thought I had everything set up and running, and I did.

Futaba recommended I switch my 7008 RX to the 12 channel setting. I did so today. I first set the 7008 to the 12 channel mode (2 lights blinking). I cut power to the 7008.

I then powered up my Futaba 14SG, went to the link setting, changed it to 12 Channel, verified it, and cut power.

I then linked the 7008 with the TX. All proved out OK.

I am using the SBUS connection going to a Skookum 720BE as per the manual and a few videos I found.

I cut power to all. Then I repowered my TX, made sure the 12 was on the LED screen, then I powered up the RX. All went great. The servo's moved like the are suppose to and all.

I have aileron, elevator, rudder, throttle, BUT now I don't have any collective response, none. The servo's move as you check tilt, yaw, and elevator, gyro works normal.

I have tried everything including switching back to 14 channel mode and the collective is not responding to the transmitter commands. I even set up a new model just to check, no help. I have relinked the 7008 several times just to make sure there is no problem.

I have checked all settings in the 14SG.

If there is going to be a major problem, I will find it!

Anybody have an idea where my collective has stopped. There is "0" response, but throttle is a OK. LED shows all functions on the TX are working.

All I did was change the 7008 to the 12 channel mode, NO other changes were made.

Thanks, Dennis

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03-02-2017 11:59 AM  16 months agoPost 2
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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Have you checked the servo monitor page to see if the transmitter is outputting the collective ?

modtron
Oxford UK

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03-02-2017 01:54 PM  16 months agoPost 3
Rojoalfa

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Punta de Mata, Monagas-Venezuela

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/
/

When you change between fasst mult / 7 Channel mode, Futaba radio ask for reallocating channels on system or leave as it, with a innocent question...

Check funtions to see where system map Channel Pitch.
Servo monitor display could help.

/

Saludos cordiales,

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03-02-2017 03:43 PM  16 months agoPost 4
don s

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Chesapeake, VA

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Sounds like it's in airplane mode.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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03-02-2017 03:50 PM  16 months agoPost 5
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Have you checked the servo monitor page to see if the transmitter is outputting the collective ?
YES, the collective is working, throttle, and the throttle stop is working in the monitor view section.
When you change between fasst mult / 7 Channel mode, Futaba radio ask for reallocating channels on system or leave as it, with a innocent question...
Check funtions to see where system map Channel Pitch.
Servo monitor display could help.
I chose "reallocating" when I changed from 14 to 12. I do see where both are operating. I also thought this may be the problem, but I checked both channels to see if anything didn't look wright. I might be missing something. I might even try changing again just to see if that makes a difference.

I am ready to do anything. Infact, I might even give Futaba a call this evening. I really like the Radio, but it's totally different than my JR9503's. I am sure you know what I am talking about. There are many functions to set and/or use with the 14SG.

Last night after posting this, I put my DSMX antennas back on and linked the system back to my JR Radio. ALL functions worked.

So the problem is between the 14SG and the 7008. Again, I am using the SBUS (channel 8 slot, the one all the way to the end) setup with one wire going from the 7008 to the Skookum 720, I believe channel I/OE on the Skookum 720 which the instructions show to use. Plus it was working on this channel before.

Thanks for the help, I am sure we will get this straight very soon.

Dennis

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03-02-2017 05:29 PM  16 months agoPost 6
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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Ok then, in 12ch mode the transmission is in high speed setting - is you fbl unit capable of accepting this ?
I've only ever used Futaba items in 12 ch mode.

modtron
Oxford UK

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03-02-2017 08:28 PM  16 months agoPost 7
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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Go to the Linkage Menu and then Function, what channel is PIT set to?

Steve

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03-02-2017 09:26 PM  16 months agoPost 8
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Go to the Linkage Menu and then Function, what channel is PIT set to?
Battery is charging, as soon as it's ready I will check the PIT setting.

Ok then, in 12ch mode the transmission is in high speed setting - is you fbl unit capable of accepting this ?
My Transmitter: Futaba T14SG
My Receiver: R7008SB

You have the FASSTest14CH setting, or the FASSTest12CH setting.

I don't see information stating the FASSTest12CH is high speed, but from all indications, it is.

In the FASSTest12CH mode, channel 5 controls the Pitch.

In the FASSTest14CH mode, channel 6 controls the Pitch.

Channel 3 controls the Throttle on both settings.

Hopefully this information helps. As soon as my battery is charged, I am going to recheck everything.

Dennis

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03-02-2017 11:15 PM  16 months agoPost 9
fastrc1

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Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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Go to the Function screen and make sure pitch is assigned to J3

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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03-03-2017 12:30 AM  16 months agoPost 10
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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When you changed the RX to MODE B, did you hold the button down for at least 2 seconds after the red LED was blinking twice, until the LED turned solid? Then powered RX off?
I don't see information stating the FASSTest12CH is high speed, but from all indications, it is.
Page 75 of the manual....."Analog servos cannot be used with the R7008SB in the FASTTest 12CH mode". This is the "high speed" mode, but since you are running S-Bus from RX to FBL unit, it shouldnt be causing any issues.

Steve

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03-03-2017 07:54 AM  16 months agoPost 11
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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UPDATE: The best thing I did yesterday is remove the Futaba 7008RX and put my DSMX antennas back on the Skookum 720. I re-binded the Skookum to the JR9503 Radio. I believe I stated earlier when I did this, all functions work perfect. I was really scratching my head, but it eliminated several areas, mainly the Skookum 720.

After talking to Futaba and going over notes, plus trying several things throughout the day, I stumbled across the problem.

All equipment is functioning properly. The reason I was having all these inconsistent problems was due to a "software conflict" between the Futaba 7008 RX (and the 14SG radio) & the Skookum 720BE!

I stumbled across the problem and figured out what the Skookum was looking for as well as finding out what the 7008 & the 14SG was sending out!

Futaba is very sensitive with their "end point" settings, or you can say the Skookum and Castle are very sensitive. Either way, I worked with the Radio, the Receiver, and the Skookum software settings.

I now have my Helicopter back and all functions are working correctly. I found a pattern it liked and wrote it down.

This is why I was pulling my hair out. It was not a mechanical or electronic failure, strictly a software compatibility issue. This is why I was getting all the inconsistent readings.

The Futaba 14SG is very detailed vs. the JR9503. Another reason the JR worked and the Futaba was not.

I also have the RX set to the 12 channel setting, and verified. Just for the record, when changing the two channels, you have to bind the radio again to the new setting. If you have your receiver on 12 and power the TX up with 14 still active, it will NOT work, and vise versa the system won't work.

It's been a long road with me almost ditching the project, but I got to the bottom of it.

I am looking forward to flying the Helicopter tomorrow, and hopefully there will a very good report to post.

Thanks for everyone's help, all put together, the problem got solved.

Dennis

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03-03-2017 08:04 AM  16 months agoPost 12
fastrc1

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Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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Glad you got it sorted. Go fly and enjoy.

Happy Hovering

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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03-03-2017 09:53 AM  16 months agoPost 13
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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Glad that it all came good in the end.
Out of interest, what was your reason for going 12 ch mode ?
Only difference is that 12 ch mode does not do telemetry as it outputs a higher frame rate.
Differences between JR & Futaba have always beeen stick centre pulse and end point values.

modtron
Oxford UK

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03-03-2017 10:11 AM  16 months agoPost 14
iyoy

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Bacolod City, Philippines

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Congratulations
Good job Dennis. I must say that I admire your patience and determination. I would have given up much earlier. I learned a lot from your post. I am currently using Futaba T14SG and R7008SB on 3 of my helis and am about to set up a fourth. None of them are using telemetry for now. I am planning to try an R7003SB since I don't use telemetry anyway and it costs less than the R7008SB.

iyoy

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03-03-2017 10:34 AM  16 months agoPost 15
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Out of interest, what was your reason for going 12 ch mode ?
Futaba recommended it, and I don't plan on using telemetry on this Heli.

I can easily switch back to 14, and also can "easily" switch back to by DSMX system.

It was one heck of a ride. I am just HAPPY I decided to put my DSMX unit back on. When everything worked perfectly, I knew it was in the radio or close to it. I just didn't know Futaba was so tight with their settings, or Castle is also a culprit in this puzzle. Mostly it was getting the 7008 to communicate "CORRECTLY" with the Futaba 14SG radio. I spent several hours experimenting, I knew I was getting close as every adjustment was getting me closer to the final fix, then finally I found it.

Many were waiting for the outcome, and some were surprised when I figured out the solution. Most thought it was a lost cause.

Sometimes I wonder if it was really worth it, but I am happy and satisfied now.

I can't sleep waiting for daylight. Will probably be too tierd to fly when sunlight appears. LOl

Take Care, Dennis

PS: You're correct, No BOOKS or VIDEOS shows this type of information. I have dealt with electronics all my life, so I guess it was an asset on this project. I just would not give up, even if it meant buying more receivers.

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03-03-2017 10:38 AM  16 months agoPost 16
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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I am planning to try an R7003SB

I am planning on doing the same thing since I figured out the SBUS to Skookum system settings.

By the way, I bought a 1/4 scale MD500 that has Futaba SBUS servo's. I had to learn the Futaba system, this is the main reason I stuck with the project.

Dennis

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03-03-2017 02:31 PM  16 months agoPost 17
balsabasher

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Central Ohio, USA

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Dennis,
I know what your problem is. I just ran across this yesterday. When in 12 channel mode, the pitch channel default is on channel 5 and when in 14 channel mode, the pitch default is on channel 6. (Look at tables on pg 43 of your Futaba manual)
Skookum wants pitch on channel 6 (which is common among radios).
So, when you switched from 12 channel mode to 14 channel mode, you need to answer the question "Channel Relocation" as "YES". Default is "NO". Or change the pitch channel to 6 yourself.

And as mentioned to you in a PM, I found that I could not use the Futaba 12 channel (high speed) mode with the SK560. THEY DO NOT PLAY WELL TOGETHER! The Futaba 14 channel mode works fine with the SK560.

Dennis, you have ran into three main problems;
1) The Futaba has many features you need to learn and adjust. Plus you need to learn the "Futaba way" of doing and naming things!
2)Skookum needs to improve and update their setup software. They do not spell out their channel#/function assignments.
3)Some customer services do not seem to know the other company's equipment, so they can not answer your questions or answer them correctly. (A common problem nowadays!)

Blades; what goes around, comes around!

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03-04-2017 12:23 AM  16 months agoPost 18
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Dennis, you have ran into three main problems;
1) The Futaba has many features you need to learn and adjust. Plus you need to learn the "Futaba way" of doing and naming things!
2)Skookum needs to improve and update their setup software. They do not spell out their channel#/function assignments.
3)Some customer services do not seem to know the other company's equipment, so they can not answer your questions or answer them correctly. (A common problem nowadays!)
Above from Balsabasher

Your 100 percent correct. I now wonder why Futaba didn't tell me this when they recommended the 12 setting.
Skookum wants pitch on channel 6
There was a lot of lost time on this one issue. Somebody, Futaba or Skookum should have a post stating this change when going to the 12 setting. I know it's in the manual, but it didn't focus on what the change would cause. There should have been a footnote or something.

Infact, looking back, I did switch it back to 14, then I switched back to 12 (per Futaba's suggestion), but I told the Futaba NOT to reassign channels.

So my pitch/collective is operating on channel 6.

Dennis
Some customer services do not seem to know the other company's equipment,
This is true in just about every industry. Futaba admitted they knew very little about the Skookum's.

I can't blame Futaba, since Skookum is offering this equipment for all makes, well Skookum should have put out a notice or something. Like I said, many have messaged me telling me they ran into the same issue. Not many realize Futaba will switch the pitch to channel 5 when setting to the 12 setting.

This is another reason my JR9503 worked normally. JMO
1) The Futaba has many features you need to learn and adjust. Plus you need to learn the "Futaba way" of doing and naming things!
Yes, I realize this. Some Futaba setting are backwards compared to other TX's. And there are "many" extra settings, many that won't be used.

BUT, I do like the Futaba. There are many things that kept me moving forward with the radio. I am sure I will use some of the other settings once I get use to the radio.

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03-04-2017 12:59 AM  16 months agoPost 19
DennisH

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Baton Rouge Louisiana USA

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Only difference is that 12 ch mode does not do telemetry as it outputs a higher frame rate.
I have to add this one item.

The Castle Edge is not getting off the hook so easy. You definetly have to change the "End Point" settings in your transmitter so the Castle will activate, then your motor will spool up.

Also, Castle also has a safety setting which I switched to on. In this mode, you have to cycle the Throttle Hold and move the collective stick a little to activate the Castle.

Another hurdle I didn't know about. I do like the safety feature, so I am leaving this setting alone. This information is in the Help menu in the Castle Software.

NOW, why does the 12 channel mode put out a higher frame rate vs. the 14 channel mode?

Someone stated, I don't remember where, but it will definetly cause your servo's to do strange things. Whenever the Skookum is saving the files, the servo's go somewhat wild. It does not do this in the 14 channel mode.

What is the exact purpose of the 12 channel setting putting out a higher frame rate?

I stated this before, and will state it again, when I called Castle and Futaba, BOTH were very cordial and helpful. They wanted an answer as bad as I did. Both were very knowledgeable, but as you stated, they don't know each others software and operating features. I can certainly understand this. It will take people like us to bring it to their attention, and then hopefully, someone will put out a bulletin.

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