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0| Noobyflyer
rrVeteran Clearwater, FL |
Manual Transmissions Sports car manufacturers these days all seem hell bent on convincing us paddle shifting is the way to go. It's just not. I will never buy a sports car that is an automatic. Paddle shifting is NO replacement for a driver involved with both feet and hands. It's so rewarding to shift your own gears.A car that is a paddle shift IS an automatic. These word games that are used to somehow spin a paddle shift into being more than just an automatic are non-sense. A paddle shifted car is one more way of losing freedom.Every year I hear that this brand or that brand is threatening to leave a manual tranny out of their option packages. Massive mistake. The millennials may not have a clue what to do with a stick shift, but for those of us who have learned and appreciate it, the experience of driving a manual every day is so sweet!And another thing.....when it comes to collectibility, the "forbidden fruit" of a manual transmission will ALWAYS fetch more money on resale from a true car enthusiast. |
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 GyroFreak
rrProfessor Orlando Florida ...28N 81W |
I have owned both manual and automatic and do appreciate the nostalgia and fun of driving a manual. But here are some practical considerations of automatics. The manual tyranny's that I remember would wear out clutch linings and throw out bearings (how soon depended on how you treated them), but I have never worn out a automatic. This is with 60 years of driving both types, my last manual was a 4 speed Mustang and I loved the floor shift. But from a practical (wife and kids can drive) and reliability view point, automatics win for me. . . Just a short comment, I remember driving my first automatic, my left foot was always thumping on the floor boards looking for that clutch pedal. Guess that's what they call 'muscle memory' reaction. I still only use my right foot for braking, left foot reserved for some future sports car with manual. |
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 outhouse
rrVeteran auburn ca |
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 RM3
rrElite Veteran Killeen, Texas - USA |
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| TruckRacer
rrNovice Des Moines, Iowa |
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 ticedoff8
rrKey Veteran Morgan Hill, CA. USA |
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear. Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic! |
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| Lotus7
rrNovice Cape Town, South Africa |
My Subaru Outback has a 6 sp manual but I mostly just skip 5th gear what with 4-5-6 being so closely spaced. Having said that , I just swopped out my race car 5 speed H-pattern manual synchro box for a 6 speed sequential stick shift dog box , equipped with electronically controlled clutchless full throttle upshifts |
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| GyroFreak
rrProfessor Orlando Florida ...28N 81W |
I remember when a buddy showed up with a bike that had electric start, told him that is not a true motorcycle. Well just try and buy a new Harley with a kick start now. |
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| RM3
rrElite Veteran Killeen, Texas - USA |
If manuals are so good, why do all the top racing leagues use paddle shifting, dual clutch, "automatics"? |
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| ticedoff8
rrKey Veteran Morgan Hill, CA. USA |
NASCAR isn't a top racing league.NASCAR uses manual transmissions for the same reason they use carburetors. NASCAR is run by hillbillies: Science and technology confuse them.Dale Earnhardt had to die before they implemented SAFER barriers and HANS devices. Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear. Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic! |
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| TruckRacer
rrNovice Des Moines, Iowa |
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| gmcullan
rrKey Veteran Southbridge, MA |
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450 |
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| Machinehead01
rrVeteran Lower Michigan |
I recently read... Also that manual transmissions are going to start fetching the premium price if they are offered at all, from certain automobile manufacturers. Manual transmissions are more labor intensive from the production point of view. Where as in an automatic you can have multiple gears of the same tooth count(planetary ring riders), almost all the gears in a manual have different tooth counts which means more setup/production time, heat treating, more quality time spent in inspection there of. Not to mention higher costs of the material used for said gears. Most counter gear sets are produced as a single set of gears from one piece of material, bad run of production and you can scrap a lot of money real quick in time/labor and material. Tom |
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 jharkin
rrApprentice Holliston, MA - USA |
 . Americans just plain dont like shifting. IF they dont sell, automakers aren't going to spend the money developing them.(Note that in the rest of the world manuals still rule. Even luxury Mercedes, etc that are auto only here are made in manual for the German domestic market).It comes down to the same reason that American companies where developing muscle cars that only could go fast in a straight line while European companies where developing nimble sports car. The Camaro is right at home street racing on Woodward Ave but would be totally out of place driving the Mille Miglia. And vice versa for your average Italian sports car.
Second reason is performance. As was mentioned above, dual clutch automated manuals like Porsche PDK and the Ferrari system are derivatives of F1 and LeMans racing designs that can shift far faster than any human. And having such a system lets them add other goodies like launch control (keep in mind that not every car with paddle snifters is a real dual clutch automated manual). Sorry RM3, but ticedoff is correct - NASCAR does not make advanced technology a priority, they use strict rules to keep the cars equal and make it a drivers race (but its not "run by hilbillies" the low tech decision is very deliberate). Formula 1, LeMans, etc are generations ahead in car development, but they have suffered for it by becoming boring.Third reason is efficency For a long time a good driver could eek out better mpg from a manual box but lock up torque converters and lots of gears (9 is starting to pop up a lot now) have tipped that balance in favor of autos now. Manufacturers can use an auto box with a lot of ratios and creative shift point programming to make better numbers on the tests and meet their CAFE targets. Then give the driver a "sport" mode to make us think we didn't give up the actual driving experience.Eventually CVTs will kill off even traditional autos, and then as RM3 mentions electric motors will kill off them all. We already have hybrids (Honda Accord) that dont have a a transmission at all in the traditional sense - just a gas engine and electric motor each with a fixed ratio. Whiplash-G Helix 700G T-Rex 450 fbl conversion alot of planks |
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| RM3
rrElite Veteran Killeen, Texas - USA |
Manual transmissions are more labor intensive from the production point of view. for the manufacturer its all about material and labor cost... cheaper and faster is the name of the game... quality/durability comes second. people who keep cars for more than 5 years are rare (unless they are broke to begin with)... the idea is to keep people buying, and if it breaks down after the warranty... the more the likely that the customer will buy another...the same can be said for machinists... they are disappearing, its all going CNC... its faster and less mechanically complex to build and run a CNC... you no longer have machinists... you now have machine operators. the helical gears I cut for my heli are done on a mechanically simple 4 axis CNC controlled by a $200 computer... the same setup on a 100% mechanical machine would be mechanically complex, expensive and time consuming to make duplicates... now the next thing on the horizon is 3D printing which is nothing more than CNC machining in reverse (applying material vs removing material)the only thing we are loosing here in reference to autos vs manuals is the fun factor and skill needed to drive one... we are taking away the control from the driver... nothing more.hell its going to get to the point that your car wont run unless you've paid the monthly fee. Sorry RM3, but ticedoff is correct - NASCAR does not make advanced technology a priority |
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| jharkin
rrApprentice Holliston, MA - USA |
the same can be said for machinists... they are disappearing, its all going CNC... its faster and less mechanically complex to build and run a CNC... you no longer have machinists... you now have machine operators. the helical gears I cut for my heli are done on a mechanically simple 4 axis CNC controlled by a $200 computer... the same setup on a 100% mechanical machine would be mechanically complex, expensive and time consuming to make duplicates.. Whiplash-G Helix 700G T-Rex 450 fbl conversion alot of planks |
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| RM3
rrElite Veteran Killeen, Texas - USA |
And 3D printing has a long way to go before its going to replace machining altogether. The materials we can print with are still limited.... |
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| ant_mb
rrElite Veteran United States |
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 BJames111
rrElite Veteran San Diego, California |
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| old nitroman
rrVeteran Naples florida |
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