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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Nitro engine tuner ?
09-03-2016 01:10 PM  4 years ago
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Vaderluck

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Melbourne - Australia

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Nitro engine tuner ?
We have guitar tuner, piano tuner, violin tuner...
Has anyone invented a nitro engine tuner on a phone app yet ? It will make life lot easier for RC pilots.
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09-03-2016 01:14 PM  4 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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You are joking, right ????Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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09-03-2016 02:59 PM  4 years ago
don s

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Chesapeake, VA

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Why not? It would take a bit of work, but is doable (I think).E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.
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09-03-2016 04:03 PM  4 years ago
allns47

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Richmond IN.

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juan
just read the manual right???? lol
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09-03-2016 04:41 PM  4 years ago
HELIBROKE

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Dallas Texas

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Not to difficult, temperature and RPM, are the most important factors. I have been using a temperature heat gun and tach. for a long time. Temp to high open needle till temp is in range. Check RPM and adjust throttle. If temp goes up open needle till in range.
GO FLY !!!
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09-03-2016 08:18 PM  4 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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carbsmart was pretty popular a few years back. It would tune your high end needle in flight. The thought process there was that 'in tune' was defined by the head being a certain temp. So, a temp sensor was mounted, the carb smart circuit read the temp, and feed in commands to a servo that was connected to the high-speed needle. If it read a temperature cooler than "in tune" it would lean it out; and vice versa.

If you really wanted to get complex you could come up with an algorithm for when and how to set the low speed and midrange needles. But, that would require two more servos to do in flight.

If you want to do this on the ground with an app on your phone what would it do? Go by sound? Somehow read the temp of the head? or something else? Just about anything is possible with software. But, it needs input to do its work.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-03-2016 09:02 PM  4 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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allns47 wrote:
juan
just read the manual right???? lol
Nope ! I just rely on experience to get it done right. If you don't have the experience, get help from others that do. "Reading the manual" in this case is not going to get you very far.....

The carb smart was a great idea in theory but it never really took off very well.... and it reportedly didn't work all that well either......If they did, they would still be in use today......

There are too many complex variables to consider when tuning a motor and a "phone app" to do it for you is simply not feasible , IMHO......

But, Shawn, if you think it's a great idea then put your welding equipment aside and get working on the app... let me know when it's done !!

PS-- You're not trying to start trouble, are you ?? (trolling ?) Cause you're gonna need the aid of your "back up" if you are !!! LOL !!!
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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09-03-2016 09:52 PM  4 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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The point of bringing up carbsmart was to illustrate what is needed to tune an engine. Obviously, carbsmart didn't work well or they would still be in use. It was more of a segue to the question to Vaderluck about what he expects a phone app to do.

Tuning a musical instrument compares a sound coming from the instrument with a reference known frequency. The app stores the reference data on the device; the comparison against it is made with data coming in from the microphone.

There are multiple ways to tune an engine. But, most people go by head or backplate temperature. It would be trivial to store the reference temperature data on the device. But, how do you get the sample to compare it with? There's no temp sensor on the current generation of smart phones.

If there were another way to tune an engine using any of the available smart phone sensors it could be done. Until then, there's no way to make a comparison.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-03-2016 10:12 PM  4 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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Cuda,

I knew exactly what you meant and "why" you mentioned the carb smart..... Some haven't been in the hobby long enough to that it even existed .....specially with the popularity of electrics..... Hell, some don't even know what a flybar is !! LOL !!
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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09-03-2016 10:23 PM  4 years ago
allns47

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Richmond IN.

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carb smart
I can't remember this...exactly what was it
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09-03-2016 10:29 PM  4 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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Nitro engine tuner?

...thats called a screw driver...
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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09-03-2016 10:57 PM  4 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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carb smart was a little box about the size of a futaba rx. it took 2 inputs: a switch from your TX to activate it, and a temp sensor from the head.

it had one output: to a servo

the package also included a control rod and an arm that mounted to the high-speed needle.

You programmed in the 'ideal temperature' and it maintained this value by evaluating the temp from the head and leaning out if cool or richening up if hot.

pretty cool concept. but, didn't do much in practice.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-03-2016 11:08 PM  4 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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Cuda,

allns47 is just trying to be a smart ass.....Please don't feed the troll !!!
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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09-03-2016 11:49 PM  4 years ago
Helicrazy4

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West Virginia

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Precision Tuned Fuel Injection would be great!
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09-04-2016 02:27 AM  4 years ago
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Model engine carburetors work fairly well for those that know how to tune them. They work fairly well given how comically simple they are. There is so much more that could be done but is it really needed? Will anyone really pay for it?

OS came out with their Demand Regulator System (DRS) which is just a simple adaptation of the regulator side of a Walbro. As effective as the DRS system is, there isn't much to it. OS's DRS conversion kits were $240 for the just the carburetor (+backplate/check valve). What would a model application of a self tuning carburetor cost? Again - Is it really needed and would you pay for it?

Below is a similar thread.
https://rc.runryder.com/t797052p1/

Cheers,

Bill
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
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09-04-2016 03:42 AM  4 years ago
allns47

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Richmond IN.

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juan
no I wasnt.....I've never heard of one...
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09-04-2016 11:36 AM  4 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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juan
no I wasnt.....I've never heard of one...
My apologies......
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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09-04-2016 01:55 PM  4 years ago
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Carb smarts were use to run tuning on the edge using heat as a tool to make setting rich or lean . One of the downfalls were if it failed you toasted motor because most of the time it failed in lean side . Carb smart is not a tuning tool , you must know how to tune from the get go .I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)
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09-04-2016 05:17 PM  4 years ago
Dawiev

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Middle East

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Bribe an experienced pilot at your flying field (6 pack).

Even the older plane pilots are very skilled at this.
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09-04-2016 07:21 PM  4 years ago
hyflyr

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Nitro tuning
Unfortunately most of the problem around tuning nitro is not even with the process of adjusting the mixture. It is all of the other variables around the setup of the whole system. The engine is only one of variables and looking at the needles is only a minor part of the process. I have seen so many situations that were basically impossible to get a good tune. One has to consider the synergies that have to come together. I think an app is a great idea. In a negative perspective in so far as a good one would require all of the components to be entered. Then a database could be compiled to determine the success ratio. This would be a way to let a novice know they need to give up on nitro cause they have a POS setup that probably will never tune. It takes a decent setup with all of the parts designed to work together. Many never have a chance of consistent success.

Scott
Scott
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