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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › trouble with tail in 450 with 3gx
05-26-2016 02:07 AM  3 years ago
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motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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trouble with tail in 450 with 3gx
I have a tarot 450 with a 3gx v2.1. It flies well except when I give full throttle the head goes to the left, ie, not enough rudder authority.
The rudder total gain adjustment is 90 percent and my dx7 has 93 percent on heading hold. Not sure what to do next to keep the tail solid on full power climb out.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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05-26-2016 02:15 AM  3 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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Have you tried adjusting your tail for no drift in rate mode (non heading hold) while in a hover ??

In other words, hover your heli in rate mode..... if there is any drift, adjust the control rod linkage so that there is no drift while in a hover..... don't use the trims...... make your adjustments mechanically until any drift is eliminated....

Also, most would recommend you update your firmware to V5. That can be downloaded from the Align site....
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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05-26-2016 04:04 AM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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yes, there is no drift in rate mode. thanks for the reply.if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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05-26-2016 05:46 AM  3 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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Grind the flat spot further out (where the tail rotor hub mounts to). This will provide more pitch to give you more tail authority.

FYI
450's itself in stock form doesn have good tail geometry. If you play real close attention, at mid travel on the pitch slider, it actually goes with the counter torque instead of compensating against it. Baffles me why align never made a longer tail shaft to fix this problem
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05-27-2016 05:58 PM  3 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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long beach calif

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sound like you have to much pitch drop your pitch down to +10Insha Allah made in america
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05-28-2016 03:32 PM  3 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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If you are using a satellite connected to the 3GX as your receiver, you have to be using CHANNEL 7 to control gyro gain. Your DX7 is most likely using CHANNEL 5 as that is its default setting. You need to set your DX7 up correctly.

You are probably operating in rate, no Heading Hold mode as a result.

Do yourself a favor and update that 3GX to V 5.0 while you are at it.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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05-28-2016 09:34 PM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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First of all, thanks to all for the help.

helifanatix and wicked clown seem to be at odds.(one says too much pitch, one not enough) To me, its seems like I don't have enough pitch to control the tail at full power climb out.

I am running though a receiver, ar6200. I believe I am in heading hold not rate for the following reasons:

1) When I give a rudder input, the slider stays at one side, does not go back to the middle like it would in rate mode.

2) The status light is green, not red as it would be if I was in rate mode.

I will try to up grade to V5.0
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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05-28-2016 10:51 PM  3 years ago
Vaderluck

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Melbourne - Australia

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You may want to try Collective pitch torque compensation (on the Rudder Parameter screen).
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05-29-2016 12:28 AM  3 years ago
vburge

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Alabaster, Alabama - US

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Is your head speed dropping when you punch out? This will cause your tail to kick. Are you using a gov? If so, you may need to increase gov gain. What pitch are you running? My tail was doing this same thing and it ended up the pitch got mistakenly got set to 15 degrees!!Synergy 516
Graupner
Xnova
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05-29-2016 02:19 AM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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dah, it just hit me, helifanatix was referring to tail rotor pitch, and wicked clown was referring to main rotor pitch. I'm goona blame that brain lapse on the heat. Yes I have my main rotor pitch at 12, I'll dial it down to 10 and see what happens

Hope everyone has a good holiday!
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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05-29-2016 02:24 AM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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ps head speed is constant when punching out. no gov. I'm running 12 degrees, planning on going down to 10 to see what happens.

Also I down loaded V5.0 from Align which is a zipped file. It is in my file documents folder, but I can't open it. What is the next step for this?
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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05-29-2016 04:32 AM  3 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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AR6200. Connect channel 5 to the gyro input of the 3GX using the 3GX cable set.

Set your DX7 to use channel 5 to run gyro gain.

You need to download a file unzipper such as 7Zip to unpack the files. Then install the package on your PC and then use the 3GX SW to update to 5.0.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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05-30-2016 02:09 PM  3 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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motorrc
ps head speed is constant when punching out. no gov. I'm running 12 degrees, planning on going down to 10 to see what happens.
to much pitch makes more torque on the tail.
1) When I give a rudder input, the slider stays at one side, does not go back to the middle like it would in rate mode.
and when in heading hold the tail is not suppose to center back when you move the rudder on;y in rate mode
2) The status light is green, not red as it would be if I was in rate mod
should stay green
motorrc

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I have a tarot 450 with a 3gx v2.1. It flies well except when I give full throttle the head goes to the left, ie, not enough rudder authority.
The rudder total gain adjustment is 90 percent and my dx7 has 93 percent on heading hold. Not sure what to do next to keep the tail solid on full power climb out.
bet you mean it kicks out huh ?
nd try these thr curves 0-30-65-65-65 for normal mode
Insha Allah made in america
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05-30-2016 03:10 PM  3 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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What motor are you using and how many teeth on your pinion?

How far out from center is your rudder pushrod ball on the servo?

Do you get at least +/- 45 degrees of servo arm travel on the rudder before the pitch slider bottoms out?

What are you using for a tail servo?

In your TX settings, what value are your rudder travel endpoints?
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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05-30-2016 10:48 PM  3 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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this tail setup work for me might want to give it a try

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america
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05-31-2016 04:13 AM  3 years ago
lfalsetto

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COLORADO

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07-04-2016 03:18 PM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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Thanks again to everyone for the help.

I have to apologize-I thought for sure that I had set the rudder linkage in rate and there was not any drift-I really had that wrong-it was many turns off. After I corrected that, results were worlds better. Only problem now which is minor compared to what I had, is on full power climb outs, tail temporarily goes from 6 o'clock to 5 or 4, then back to 6 at level out. I'm going to change the pitch to negative 10 positive 10 and set what happens-I'll post results.
if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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07-04-2016 03:45 PM  3 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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Glad you're headed in the right direction !

After you adjusted your push rod to get no drift while in rate mode, did you re-do your left and right limits on the tail rotor pitch slider (done on the 3GX) so that you are not over driving the pitch slider ?? Both left and right need to be redone.
Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....
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07-04-2016 08:33 PM  3 years ago
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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no I didn't do that-will do it before I go out again.if it doesn't fit, make it fit.
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07-05-2016 11:22 AM  3 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I can guarantee your throttle curve is too steep after hover pitch.

Try normal mode:

0-50-70-75-80

IU1:

90-INH-80-INH-90

IU2:

100-INH-90-INH-100
60% of the time, it works every time!
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › trouble with tail in 450 with 3gx
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