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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › What is your "fair share " number and what makes it fair?
03-27-2016 03:09 AM  31 months agoPost 21
Jerry K

rrKey Veteran

Houston Area

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Keep in mind the bucket will fill faster is we quit shooting holes in it. The same with the federal budget, if we quit giving it away to the free stuff society and other governments that hate us the guberment would have to confiscate near as much.

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03-27-2016 03:22 AM  31 months agoPost 22
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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That's why I'm buying a AMERICAN Chevrolet 4G LTE made in Asia some where. Comes with FREE Wi Fi and a Commi Apple Pay Phone. Logo even has the bite right out of it ! The Snake Done It !

Go too Wiki - Wiki -Wiki all day long singing the Twitter Song so I can buy flip flops and put the lime in the Coconut. Bunnies !

NOW GET BACK TO WORK for the Caliphate : Zig - Zag- Zig !

Hop Sing Too It

You dummy ? We give you Jelly Fish Bean Pill for higher brain function.

Do Not Eat the Blue One's !!!
Unless you are in the doughnut delivery business.

greyeagle

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03-27-2016 03:23 AM  31 months agoPost 23
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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I decided to research how other societies dealt with some of these problems. The Eskimos would put old unproductive members of their tribe onto icebergs and let them float away.

http://www.theinitialjourney.com/fe...skimos-old-age/

Brilliant idea, and the ultimate in carbon friendly disposal. A super bonus is each iceberg could be used to get 1800 carbon credits or more!

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03-27-2016 03:55 AM  31 months agoPost 24
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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That's why we have Eskimo Pie's !

Watch Europe : They have completely lost their autonomy with absolutely no - borders or NO LAW. No separate countries

You can go from United Kingdom too the European Union : No - More Countries: No Visa / No passport / maybe a Jihadi drivers license.

From one end to the other in less than a day's drive. Using Tokens.

They are putting up VE signage already - OLD SCHOOL : They go 1st

greyeagle

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03-27-2016 04:12 AM  31 months agoPost 25
aerocal

rrApprentice

Central California

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"A "fair" tax will only work if it is locked into the constitution as an amendment.

Otherwise politicians will quickly revert it right back to the old ways as they choose for their own purposes.

There is no ther way."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixte...es_Constitution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Law_that_Never_Was

Its kind of what happens when you give private Central Banks(Federal Reserve) the power to control the value of your currency and Congress the power to tax and spend as they see fit all the while exempting themselves from the same laws they impose on the general population.
The rabbit hole is deep.

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03-27-2016 12:12 PM  31 months agoPost 26
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Last year the IRS pulled in 3 trillion dollars give or take.
False....more like < 1T....more talking points, eh?

Only 1/2 of the people who actually draw W2 wages...actually pay one thin dime in federal taxes.

So your figures are totally false.

Try again, dude.

LOL

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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03-27-2016 01:09 PM  31 months agoPost 27
fla heli boy

rrElite Veteran

cape coral, florida

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OK, Fair tax. All pay the same percentage. Sounds fair, but the guy who builds custom homes works harder and pays much more than the guy who flips bugers. In return they both get the same public schools, same military, police protection, same highways, same politicians to make fun of...
Obviously that's not fair.
We need the ACTUAL FAIR TAX. Which is a consumption tax. Everybody gets a pass on the "basic necessities of life" and what you buy after is taxed at the point of sale. The best book on it was co-written by Neil Boortz and the congressman that's tried to get it on to the floor for a vote (the pols of course will never allow it.) The book does a great job of laying it out.
But in order for that to work, we'd have to have a constitutional amendment which ends INCOME tax, or else we'll end up with income tax AND a VAT tax (like Europe).
Problem is, it puts a lot of tax attorneys out of business.....and you know we just can't have that...

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03-27-2016 05:21 PM  31 months agoPost 28
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Then people would just get into the business of moving said "necessities" around and make fortunes with no actual work. If a loophole exists, it WILL be exploited. You can guarantee that. People would buy and sell your baseline necessities for profit, since there will ALWAYS be need of them, and there will ALWAYS be demand that exceeds supply when it comes to things that we all need in life. Someone will exploit this, make costs increase, still make money without actually doing anything, etc.

I don't see that working. Sorry.

Oh and a burger flipper can work just as hard as a custom builder. I really can't stand looking down on minimum wage earners and pointing a finger at them for being there. It's a disgusting American thing to do. At least they are trying. But we tend to think less of them. That's the American Dream fiction in action. The fictional idea that ANYONE can just work their way to success, and the corollary that if you are a low wage earner, you deserve to be there. Better check yourself. Sure, work a lot, some will become rich, but not everyone can be a CEO. Some people will end up digging ditches. Telling the ditch digger they should have done more is a pretty big arsehole thing to do. The American Dream happens, but it's dangled out there as a way to punish the unsuccessful for their own plight. "Oh he never earned his way up." Please. Give the person some credit. Maybe he's busted his ass changing tires for minimum wage at that gas station for decades and is just getting the bills paid. The "anyone can succeed with hard work" is a Disney Princess story. It happens, but so far and few between as to really misportray what it takes to succeed. It takes hard work, but also a lot of luck, talents, etc.

Sorry for the rant. Assuming low wage earners deserve less ticks me off. I'm not saying everyone should earn the same wage. That's not how a free market works.

The only person who maybe deserves a little derision is the one unnecessarily on public assistance for long periods of time. The one making babies for society to care for, and contributing nothing other than a vote.

Please give credit where it's due.

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03-27-2016 06:04 PM  31 months agoPost 29
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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People would buy and sell your baseline necessities for profit, since there will ALWAYS be need of them, and there will ALWAYS be demand that exceeds supply when it comes to things that we all need in life.
No matter what you sell, if you do not make at least some profit after costs, you will fail and your business will close. That's the rule in a capitalist economy and that rule is etched in stone forever for the less knowledgable or careless to ignore.

Hundreds learn this harsh lesson all across America each month.

And yet those that have never made the attempt and have no clue deride those that are finally successful and made better lives for themselves and their families as being selfish and greedy.

Such as it is in America today. The celebration of entitlement and the derision of success. A very dangerous way for us to think and could very easily be our downfall.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-27-2016 06:14 PM  31 months agoPost 30
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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derision of success.

True. It goes both ways. And is generally undeserved in both cases.

I can tell you this - giving a human being their due respect would take care of a LOT of the issues. If we can stop seeing people as other and seeing them as mirrors of ourselves, we'd go a long way to mutual respect and a society worth living in.

Wealth is great. Everyone is seeking it to a certain extent. Some actually get it. Good for them! Yeah I don't understand tearing at prosperity any more than deriding the poor.

There are great people rich and poor, and assholes rich and poor. Don't let the car or clothes or wallet dictate your opinion of a man.

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03-27-2016 06:19 PM  31 months agoPost 31
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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To Over Cooked
John Koskin : Head of the Internal Revenue Service :

Attempts are being made for Impeachment - Fed level Indictments

IRS Scandals - Attachment of the administration of OBAMA Care for the New Socialistic Government.

Nothing will move till after the election. Lois Learner Stuff

VERY SERIOUS STUFF : all the way too the TOP. Bigger Picture >

It's ALL weaved together - all of it.

Look out at a minimum 6 Months - 1 Year / 4 Year / ect : PLAN

It's what is out in FRONT not at your feet or on the end of your fork.

A STORM which has been intentionally spooled up

greyeagle

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03-27-2016 06:28 PM  31 months agoPost 32
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Wealth is great. Everyone is seeking it to a certain extent.
And there we are at the tipping point where instead of earning wealth, celebrate taking it from others and promoting that as good and wise policy.

There is another definition of "distributing wealth" in today's world of diminishing returns.

It's called "self destruction"

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-27-2016 06:52 PM  31 months agoPost 33
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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Oh and a burger flipper can work just as hard as a custom builder. I really can't stand looking down on minimum wage earners and pointing a finger at them for being there. It's a disgusting American thing to do. At least they are trying. But we tend to think less of them. That's the American Dream fiction in action. The fictional idea that ANYONE can just work their way to success, and the corollary that if you are a low wage earner, you deserve to be there.
Aaron.
I apologize for using the iconic burger flipper example. As a skilled BBQ and Smoker man i do have respect for the art, and will endeavor to use the letuce chopper as an example from now on.

I am sure the letuce choppers did something other than pick a job in a place that serves a burger for a buck to deserve that, but i don't know what it is at the moment. I will keep you posted when i find out what it is.

Fictional idea that anyone can just work thier way to success? Seriously? Most of us here started at minimum or less. I was a paperboy. Even kids born with a silver spoon in their mouths start somewhere.

Dude, Evenings and weekends I am a CEO of a company of one. Anyone can climb a ladder, anyone can make their own ladder if they prefer.

I very very sincerely appologize for insinutating that success has much to do with hard work vs harder work. Truth is i don't work very hard at all. THAT is success.

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03-27-2016 06:57 PM  31 months agoPost 34
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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You want an entitlement society? When voting for a living is juicier than working for a living, that's what people will do. One of the PRIMARY things keeping conservative poor people working is work ethic, and the respect, both self and societal, that an honest living brings. So here they work day in day out to make ends meet, holding their own, and we can't even give them the due respect? If we rob them of this due respect they may give up on the honest living entirely.

So I say again, you want an entitlement society, keep deriding the working poor for their misfortune.
I very very sincerely appologize for insinutating that success has much to do with hard work vs harder work. Truth is i don't work very hard at all. THAT is success.
And that success is yours to have. Just be happy you made it to where you are, and don't look with derision either up or down, I say.

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03-27-2016 07:14 PM  31 months agoPost 35
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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So I say again, you want an entitlement society, keep deriding the working poor for their misfortune
Please explain in detail just who is deriding the working poor?

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-27-2016 07:19 PM  31 months agoPost 36
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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I don't look down on myself for the time i spent at and below minimum. Just part of the path.

Even if i had stayed a paperboy i could have become a millionare if i was a bit more forward thinking. A few hundred put in a good stock in the 70's... instead of sodas and bowling...

Many paths to the goals

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03-27-2016 07:27 PM  31 months agoPost 37
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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who is deriding the working poor?
We all do. Every time a poor worker complains about their plight, and we tell them that they deserve to be where they are.

I'm not saying raise wages. I'm not saying wealth transfer. Communism is abject failure and I am for the free market. But let's not pretend that a low wage earner doesn't put in as much sweat as a lawyer. The lawyer can command more money, but it doesn't mean it's "deserved." It just is.

And I have no issue with this status quo. Anything else removes choice which is a primary requirement for a functioning economy.

Heck, just the fact that "burger flipper" is a derogatory term sort of proves that the poor working class IS derided. I rest my case.

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03-27-2016 07:50 PM  31 months agoPost 38
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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I can tell you this - giving a human being their due respect would take care of a LOT of the issues.
Yup.

Giving a little benefit of the doubt sometimes helps too.

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03-27-2016 07:51 PM  31 months agoPost 39
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Your Life isn't measured by how much you have done or possess. It is measured by how you have shared it.

We all have been given free will as a gift, How you share that gift is all that counts.

Don't be upset with those who have more or that you have less.

Use your gifts wisely Time and Attention to achieve your happiness

It's nice outside today I'm going flying

spending time, paying attention

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03-27-2016 09:19 PM  31 months agoPost 40
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Giving a little benefit of the doubt sometimes helps too.
You got it. We're basically on the same side, philosophically. Sorry for what amounts to mincing words. The word "earn" can have multiple meanings. I know now that you didn't really mean the bad way in your message. But our society sometimes doesn't realize what it's saying. I think we need to be careful with our words because what is nuance to us can be a glaring message to someone in that position. KnowwhatImean?

So back to the subject at hand. Tax fair share.

My point in getting fired up over taxing everyone at the same dollar value is that there are people for whom the structure of civilized society allows them to attain their wealth, and without the society there would be no ability to have the wealth. There are others who struggle whether there is a social order or not. In the most extreme sense, there are people whose lives would be better if the second dark age hit. People for whom no rule of law would actually make their lives better. And then there are people whose lives would be ruined.

So, those who need society most should pay the most into it. (which is why I vehemently disagree with a limitless social safety net such as welfare, BTW.) Basically, the legal structure helps to keep a stable social order, and things flowing smoothly. It's only fair that people who benefit most from the stable order pay to keep it that way. In fact they have a vested interest in doing so.

Enter the flat tax...I think it's the only way to fairly accomplish this system where everyone pays their fare share. I believe a flat percentage rate across all wealth sectors is absolutely fair. It's fair in that everyone has a certain debt to society to pay before paying themselves, and the more they earn the more they keep no matter what. The people able to extract more wealth from the social order pay a little more into it, but since it's a flat tax it's a linear distribution and thus fair. The flat tax still allows you to take home what you earn in the exact same relation everyone else does. There is no disincentive to higher wage earners to continue getting more wealth. Plus, it is VASTLY simpler. Flat tax on all forms of earnings. No loopholes. Fair. Simple.

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