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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › UAS number from FAA inspection
03-24-2016 01:34 AM  33 months agoPost 1
floop

rrVeteran

Southern, NJ

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Who has the authority to ask you to provide your UAS/FAA number and certificate or online proof of registration?

Everyone?
AMA Clubs?
Law enforcement?
The FAA?

If someone in my neighborhood knows I fly remote controlled toys can they come to my house and insist I prove I'm registered?

If I am flying at a field in a safe manner can a stranger require me to prove my model is registered?

Does an AMA club have the authority to require me to present an FAA number that they track in their own database before I can fly or be a member?

What law enforcement agencies have authority to enforce FAA rules?

IT's what I do.

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03-24-2016 02:04 AM  33 months agoPost 2
don s

rrElite Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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FAA and LEOs.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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03-24-2016 03:17 AM  33 months agoPost 3
dela

rrApprentice

Stillwater Oklahoma

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I'm not advocating this, but I believe that a club can make whatever rule they wish, and control their membership accordingly, as long as it does not violate the law. If they ask you to prove your registration as a condition of membership, and you refuse, I believe they have the right to deny you membership.

A property owner, or holder of a lease can make whatever rule they wish to control access to their property, as long as it does not violate the law.

I don't think Joe Citizen can compel you to prove registration (or ask to see your driver's license). They can contact the police any time they wish.

Anybody can sue anybody.

I am NOT a lawyer. This is my opinion. Believe it or not, I have been wrong a time or two.

Ron D.

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03-24-2016 03:57 AM  33 months agoPost 4
floop

rrVeteran

Southern, NJ

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Dela, this is exactly what I wanted to discuss. Can a club ask for and enforce that you have an FAA UAS registration number? If they can write anything they want in the club rules could they:

Require, for example:
A drivers license and proof of vehicle insurance?
SSN and proof that you paid taxes?
Gun registration numbers and firearms ID cards?
Birth certificates to prove you are a citizen?

I'm sure we all get the point but what gives them authority to do that? In the case of a property owner being involved what gives them the authority to require the club request and document this information?

Another interesting point I wonder would be, does the UAS registration number meet the definition of personally identifiable information? I think you can look the number up and get personal details about the registrant.

IT's what I do.

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03-24-2016 12:04 PM  33 months agoPost 5
Chuckie

rrKey Veteran

Crofton Maryland

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Most clubs have or should have bylaws that document the safety and operating rules for the club. Members can propose changes to the bylaws that are then voted on by the membership. If your club has no bylaws then the club leadership can make up whatever rules they deem necessary.

Please stand by for faster service!

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03-24-2016 12:15 PM  33 months agoPost 6
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I'm not advocating this, but I believe that a club can make whatever rule they wish
I agree with your assessment of this situation.

I don't believe that any FAA or LEO will do anything unless POTUS comes to town.

This FAA BS is to "sucker" people into paying....which sets some sort of illegal precedent....in their opinion.

Your club has to take into account any "legal" ramifications to protect themselves.

And I can understand why.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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03-24-2016 02:42 PM  33 months agoPost 7
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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I would say that the club has the right to do anything they can legally do. If they want your FAA registration, and you don't want to give it, they can refuse you membership.

Our club added this requirement to the membership renewal form. I can see where we don't want to see LEO show up and bust a group of our members. That would look really bad for the club and might make the newspaper, etc.. We want to be good citizens of the community, so it is a small thing and I complied without complaint.

Being a Washington DC suburb, we have a lot to loose and a number of people looking over our shoulder. I am just not going to get bent about complying....

ok. I am a sheep. I also happen to carry a drivers license, a ham radio license, and a library card.

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03-24-2016 03:37 PM  33 months agoPost 8
banshee rider

rrApprentice

Phoenix AZ.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

floop
Who has the authority to ask you to provide your UAS/FAA number and certificate or online proof of registration?
Everyone? nope

AMA Clubs? Depends on the club rules

Law enforcement? Yes

The FAA? I would think so

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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03-25-2016 10:34 AM  33 months agoPost 9
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I can understand why the DC area is very sensitive to this issue.

Way out here, it's no big deal.

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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03-31-2016 02:42 AM  33 months agoPost 10
fastrc1

rrKey Veteran

Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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Floop; that term enforce as it pertains to a club is limited to what there bylaws are. If they amend there bylaws to read that all joining club members must produce FAA registrations as a condition of membership then they'll do just that. AMA doesn't require that there membership have FAA. The FAA requires it as defined in there document pertaining to such flying vehicles. AMA strongly urges its members to comply with the FAA's guidelines. Now as far as enforcement goes; there would have to be a ruling on how to classify someone who is in violation of the FAA's ruling by local municipalities/government. What would not having FAA numbers be classified as? A misdemeanor; a felony; of what particular degree and or a simple violation? What court would handle these issues. Civil Courts, State Courts; Federal Court Houses?
You'd actually be enforcing Federal/USDOT rules. How would fines be levied and what scale would they use to determine the weight of such fines. As a former and retired LEO I can tell you that it would be a nightmare to enforce these rules and certainly the Feds don't have the resources to do that. These and many more daunting questions would have to be answered and clearly defined. Everyone will have to wait until someone catches a case and see how it unfolds.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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03-31-2016 01:23 PM  33 months agoPost 11
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

FAA and LEOs.
Under current FEDERAL law....if you are an RC hobbyist...

NO ONE has the right to demand such.

Senator James Inhofe(R-OK) sponsored the exemption for RC hobbyists which was signed into LAW.

Unless this LAW is repealed you're OK.

But, some club officials don't understand this.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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03-31-2016 03:16 PM  33 months agoPost 12
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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I agree, how can an LEO do anything? There is no law to uphold.

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04-02-2016 11:09 AM  32 months agoPost 13
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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There is the current federal law....sponsored by Senator James Inhofe(R-OK)...in which ALL RC Hobbyists are currently EXEMPT form any restrictions imposed by the FAA.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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04-02-2016 02:13 PM  32 months agoPost 14
fastrc1

rrKey Veteran

Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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I'm pretty sure that no LEO unless an avid hobbyist and one that's deep in the game would even entertain hearing the argument of the Senators sponsored action. They'll just look @ you befuddled .

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
http://flysrw.com

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04-04-2016 12:55 PM  32 months agoPost 15
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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They'll just look @ you befuddled .
Unfortunately. it seems as if the AMA leaders are equally "befuddled".

As they "proclaimed" that such legislation solved all issues.

LMAO

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04-04-2016 06:24 PM  32 months agoPost 16
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I agree, how can an LEO do anything? There is no law to uphold.
That may be the fact. It is very confusing for everyone. But, when LEO are given a document by the FAA stating and/or implying there are laws, and provide specific guidelines on how they should enforce them then you’ve removed doubt from LEO whether there is something to enforce. They have everything they need to do their job. And, they’ve been told explicitly how to do it. From there they let the judicial system handle any interpretation or conflict between different pieces of legislation.

So, it really comes down to whether you personally want to take it to the judicial level, or give LEO what they perceive as required and end it there.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforce...idance_card.pdf

if it ain't broke, break it.

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04-04-2016 06:34 PM  32 months agoPost 17
gmcullan

rrKey Veteran

Southbridge, MA

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I work at a LHS and have had the opportunity to talk with LEOs from three municipalities as well as a MA State Trooper. All have indicated that they've received three different notices from the FAA regarding "drone" registration. Interestingly enough, their take on the ruling was it only involved "drones" (multirotors) and did not involve fixed wing aircraft or helicopters. LEO's roll is one of observation, documentation, and then turning the information over to the FAA for subsequent actions. All four officers indicated that they just don't have the manpower to be chasing R/C aircraft unless they are being flown in a blatantly endangering manner. And while they agree that there might be one or two officers per department that sort of get a hair across their bottoms in regard to R/C aircraft, as a majority, they are not setting out to harass R/C pilots.

Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450

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04-04-2016 07:05 PM  32 months agoPost 18
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The FAA can and does issue legally enforceable regulations. There are thousands of general aviation pilots that have paid fines and had their tickets (licenses) revoked or suspended.

You may not be handcuffed and hauled to jail, but the financial considerations will let you know that they can burn you for not following regulations.

Of course, as with any new regulations, they will be tested in court to determine applicability and lawfulness, but guess who gets to pay for getting out of the jamb? You do... and your lawyer is on the clock. You are better off to let someone else test the water and follow the regulation.

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04-04-2016 09:03 PM  32 months agoPost 19
newbheliusr

rrApprentice

You guesss

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I haven't been asked yet. I fly at a AMA field that has been there for 25 years. I don't want to register, I feel the government knows enough about us. The whole NSA spying crap. So I am not going to register unless forced to by my club. Which so far, knock on wood, they haven't done.

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04-05-2016 10:24 AM  32 months agoPost 20
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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All have indicated that they've received three different notices from the FAA regarding "drone" registration.
I wouldn't doubt it.

But....when litigated in a court of law.

The FAA will lose because of the Inhofe legislation.

Your case would be dismissed before you would have to appear in court.

And the FAA knows it.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › UAS number from FAA inspection
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