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HomeAircraftHelicopterLow Head Speed Helicopters › Anyone with 500 class LHS experience?
03-21-2016 08:28 PM  29 months agoPost 1
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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I would be pleased to hear about any LHS experiences related to 500 class
for 3s and 4s setup.

Thank you

Rick

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03-27-2016 04:42 AM  29 months agoPost 2
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Sorry no experience here with a 500 but with 550 stretched to 600. Usually below 550 to 600 class the benefits are somewhat reduced . But we would love to hear from you if you decide to go down that route. Many would be more than happy to give their thoughts on your setup of gear ratios and esc's and such. Tell us what you are contemplating and I am sure many will give their opinions.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-27-2016 01:44 PM  29 months agoPost 3
BeltFedBrowning

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City

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I recently made a LHS out of my old Ikarus Eco 8. I was flying it at 950 RPM. It wasn't the most nimble heli At 950. It was much better at 1200. I am still using a 10 cell Nimh for a battery. It is just like a 3s lipo as far as power goes. I just enjoy the nostalgia.
I cut grooves into the 470mm blades and epoxied weights into them near the tips.
The stock maingear has 180 teeth. I machined a one-way to adapt a Logo 400 gear with 200 teeth.

I made a belt drive gear reduction for the motor. I couldn't believe the power this thing had using the gear reuction unit. Quite a unique sound, too.


This heli uses a driven gear to transfer power to the tail via a belt. I just got a 35 tooth gear to replace the 40 tooth driven gear and the tail was plenty effective at 950 RPM. I can see a torque tube driven heli being harder to speed up the tail unless it uses a driven gear off the main. You might have noticed that this heli does not have a driven tail.

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03-27-2016 02:43 PM  29 months agoPost 4
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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Wow . Very cool. 500 is a belt drive also.
Thank you for photos.

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03-28-2016 08:03 PM  29 months agoPost 5
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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Here is what I have so far on my 500 LHS.
I've decided to go 6S with a motor in the 1200kv range .

My kit has a 162t main gear . I have a 13t 5mm pinion that I will need to
change as it won't fit motor shaft in range I'm looking at.

I'm guesssing ESC in 75a range.

I'm looking for HS in 1900-2000 range or low if possible.

Comments and suggestions please

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03-28-2016 08:51 PM  29 months agoPost 6
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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I am running something similar on my 550. I run it with the softest dampers and like it at 1750 RPM.
1100 KV Century 600A, 80 amp ESC. 6s TP packs. The secret is heavy blades. I am using Rotortech 550s. Some of my other 550 blades make it wobble.

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03-28-2016 08:57 PM  29 months agoPost 7
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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Thank you Sir. 1750 would be great.

Regards

Rick

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03-28-2016 09:06 PM  29 months agoPost 8
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I would go on Mr Mels head speed calculator and type in your gear ratio and motor KV and see what head speed you get. Decide what head speed you are shooting for and gear it accordingly. This will be your top head speed and you can slow it down somewhat from there. But unless you have an ESC whith free wheeling your efficiency may suffer if you lower your head speed too much. If you don't have the pinion or they don't make one to get you where you want it you can go to a lower KV motor. Again you can experiment with this at the Mr Mel's calculator sight.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-28-2016 09:08 PM  29 months agoPost 9
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Here is the link to Mr Mel. What helicopter do you have specifically?

http://calc.kfmconsulting.se/default.aspx

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-28-2016 09:15 PM  29 months agoPost 10
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Well I went to Mr Mels for you and typed in 6 cells 1200 KV ,,162 main and 13t pinion and came up with a head speed of 3200 at the start and about 2700 at the end of the pack.
I don't know typical head speeds since I don't own a 500 [yet lol]

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-28-2016 09:17 PM  29 months agoPost 11
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Kept everything the same but went to a 11t pinion and the head speed went down to 2700 at the start and 2300 at the end of the pack.

Depending on the setup I don't think you would need a 75 amp esc.
I run my Align 700 on 6 cells with a 90 amp esc and it is barely warm after a 10 minute flight. But I'm sure it would work fine. You would be surprised how much energy it takes to swing a head at very high rpm's. Lower head speed will be more efficient.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-28-2016 09:47 PM  29 months agoPost 12
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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Kit is HK 500.

Tried to paste Mr. Mel here but is this calc similar.

1200 x 22.2 x0.9 ( eff ) x 13 /162 = 1956

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03-28-2016 10:04 PM  29 months agoPost 13
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Just click the link I posted and it should take you there.
1950 doesn't sound right.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-28-2016 10:15 PM  29 months agoPost 14
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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PLease critique my entry on Mr. Mel

Thanks

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03-29-2016 02:19 AM  29 months agoPost 15
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Sorry!!! My mistake I thought it was a 116t main gear.
That is correct. Take off the GOV in the equation and the head speed jumps to 2250 at the beginning and 1950 at the end.
You enabled the gov on your findings. I did not enable gov as I don't use a gov and it will show the max head speed .

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-29-2016 02:16 PM  29 months agoPost 16
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

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As mentioned when you PM'ed me, I still don't understand why the efficiency factor is used in some folks calculators. Efficiency of the motor really has nothing to do with calculated rpms. KV is the velocity characteristic, not efficiency. Two motors of the same KV will turn the same rpms when using the same voltage. If one is more efficient than the other, it will draw less current to spin those rpms, but it will still spin the same rpms. When you put this into the calculations, you end up overgeared. does it work?,.. of course,because you end up with excess overhead, but it's not the most efficient setup. The smaller machines do need more excess than larger ones simply due to the lower KT of the little high KV motors, but it shouldn't need anything near 10%.

Gary Wright

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03-29-2016 04:36 PM  29 months agoPost 17
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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Gary

As Mr. Mel was the example used for this exercise my thinking was ( eff )is part of his interpretation .

Regards

Rick

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03-29-2016 05:56 PM  29 months agoPost 18
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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My stock align 500 at 2700HS is very aerobatic and the flight times are about 6 min.

If I were to build a LHS version I would go down to about 2400 .

working with your main gear size of 162 and a 6S battery I would use a 10:1 ~11:1 ratio to keep amp draw down.
that would be a pinion of 14 -15
If you use a HS of 2400
and if you are still choosing a motor kv then I suggest a motor with a KV rating of 1136 or closest

HS x gear ratio / battery volts = KV

for battery volts I use 3.8v per cell

efficiency number is good for guessing HS or choosing a motor or when choosing a charger and power supply.
However I don't bother when selecting KV because you will never find the exact KV you need unless you hand wind so you choose the next highest

Why
because there are losses in efficiency depending on materials in manufacturing.
Kontronik VS Castle as an example

spending time, paying attention

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03-30-2016 12:43 PM  29 months agoPost 19
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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ICUR1-2

Thanks for the explanation and reply.

Rick

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03-30-2016 04:38 PM  29 months agoPost 20
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Just as example I also own a Align 550 Pro. It has a 800 KV motor and ran a 16t pinion to swing 525 blades to 2500 to 2600 head speed. This is with a 5500 mah 6 cell pack. I would get 4 to 5 minute flights and everything was rather hot. Power was much more than I needed and the heli flew as if on Meth.
I found the smallest pinion I could find which was a 10t. I swapped out the 16t with the 10. I put on 600mm blades. Top head speed is 1800. My run times went from 4 to 5 minutes to an easy 9 minutes and my pitch curves remained the same because of the 75mm increase in length of each blade. With this gear ratio and motor KV it is unboggable in my experience. It is much more powerful than my 6 cell Align 700 and in comparison feels like a hot rod.
I am not as advanced as others here tech wise and piloting wise. On both my 550 and 700 I simply run both at 100% throttle to keep my efficiency up and land with a timer. Although I do run lower throttle curves on my 550 for lower head speed but I never go below 75 to 80%. Very simple setup. Both helis run the same speed controller a Talon 90 for 6 cell lipos. I would like to try a setup like Gary has with 12 cell and multiple head speeds in the future.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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HomeAircraftHelicopterLow Head Speed Helicopters › Anyone with 500 class LHS experience?
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