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HomeTurbine✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Jetcat SPH5 starter ossue
03-19-2016 12:24 PM  4 years ago
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Chris.C

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Jetcat SPH5 starter ossue
My SPH5 seems to have bad contact issue.

It starts fine but when in a normal shutdown, it fails to turn the turbine during the cool down process. If I touch the starter and bend it upward a little bit( plastic mount so a little flexible), it turns ok.

During the entire cool down process(down to 100C below), i have to do what i said above.

My question is if i can replace the starter myself? If yes, where i can buy one and what else i should replace?

Thanks

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03-19-2016 02:29 PM  4 years ago
modtron

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Before you start changing anything, I would try a "little" lubrication on the bendix coupling.
I use just a little TriFlow Oil and never a problem from then on.

modtron
Oxford UK
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03-19-2016 02:50 PM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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Thanks but sounds like you have same problem before and solved by adding oil like you said?
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03-19-2016 04:24 PM  4 years ago
modtron

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The Bendix unit is normally made of Brass and with the heat around the engine, gets very dusty and gritty.
JetCat recommend to run it dry, but I always find that a little light oil works wonders.

modtron
Oxford UK
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03-20-2016 12:52 AM  4 years ago
Sparkhead

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I've had the same issue as well but my problem was that one of motor terminals has snapped off the motor. Pop the black cap off and check the connection. As a later update they made the starter motor with a small circuit board with some flexible cable to the terminals. Intairco in Australia might be your closest dealer. I know him and he's a good guy to deal with if you need some parts.
Mick.

Robbe & Futaba.
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03-20-2016 01:04 PM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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Thanks gents for your help.

Today i took the starter assembly off the turbine. The electrical connection is good. One of the cable end(turbine side) touches the metal casing so this may be grounded. The bendix clutch is not smooth when moving in and out along the motor shaft.

Another issue is the o ring is worn out.

I guess i need to replace the entire starter assembly. Anyone knowa the part no and where i can buy one?

Thanks again,
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03-20-2016 02:14 PM  4 years ago
modtron

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Chris,

You don't need to replace the whole thing, just the O ring.
The JetCat part number is 21100-10 - I have them here, but I'm in the UK.

Best to contact your nearest JetCat dealer for spare items.

modtron
Oxford UK
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03-20-2016 10:34 PM  4 years ago
Sparkhead

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I think I may have misunderstood your original post. On the cool down cycle is the motor actually running but not driving the turbine wheel or is it stopped until you flex the black plastic?
Mick.

Robbe & Futaba.
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03-20-2016 11:24 PM  4 years ago
Sparkhead

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Just another quick thing to look out for, when my SPH5 was new I had an issue where the bendix wasn't disengaging properly after startup and the knurling on the turbine wheel nut would chew out the oring. Then it would make a squealing noise when trying to do cool down and hardly turn the turbine wheel. The noise was coming from the outer metal ring of the bendix rubbing on the turbine nut because the oring was worn down so far. I'd replace the oring and it'd happen again within a couple of flights.

I had to elongate the holes in the mount and move the whole black plastic starter assembly forward a couple of millimetres. It looked to me that there wasn't much clearance between the oring and turbine nut but it was fine under normal setup. But the problem I found was that due to the orientation of the starter motor mount, the motor would sag slightly and the bottom side of the oring would touch the turbine nut. Hence why moving the starter assembly out a couple of millimetres worked. If the design would've had the starter motor assembly rotated 90 degrees this wouldn't of been an issue.

Again this may not be your issue but I just thought I'd throw it out there. If this engine is only new and only had a few flights I'd be checking this though as those orings would normally last hundreds of cycles.

Mick.

Robbe & Futaba.
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03-21-2016 04:30 AM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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Hi Mick,

On the cool down cycle, the motor stopped until I flex the black plastic.

My SPH5 is new but stored for many years without running hence it has the issue like you have described above. The turbine wheel nut has some paint scratch now.

Your solution is good provided that the clutch can move very smoothly along the motor shaft. If not, then the magnets on the turbine wheel nuts will keep the clutch engaged (prevent it from moving back to the motor) as the entire assembly is more close to the wheel nut.

Another one I am not sure is what if I install the FOD screen to it. Will it provide more support to the motor mount?

Chris
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03-21-2016 05:35 AM  4 years ago
Sparkhead

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I end d up rotating my 1st stage turbine around 1 set of holes so mine doesn't suffer from the same issue anymore and I use my heli canopy as the FOD screen. Depends which FOD I suppose, back when I had the problem we basically used a kitchen strainer and an oring to keep in place. This actually made mine worse so I didn't bother after that. I do remember seeing one that slid over the front of the purple front cover that looked like it should work.

Just to be clear here, are we both talking about the starter motor is stopping until you flex it up? If so I still think you may have a bad connection under the black cover.

PM me your email address and we can share some photos to get it sorted.

Mick.

Robbe & Futaba.
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03-21-2016 07:59 AM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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After I pushed the shut down switch, I was expecting the turbine went into its cool down procedure immediately but it was silent except some white smoke running out from the front. I then pushed the starter motor up a little bit and it runs until cooling was completed.

For the FOD screen, I am looking at the one made by Jetcat for P60. Don't know if it is helpful in holding the starter motor in good alignment with the compressor.

In my present configuration, I guess I need to stock up some O rings even after I replaced the starter and the motor mount.
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03-29-2016 02:42 AM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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Problem solved.

Just to share what I did to solve the problem:
- replace o-ring
- oil the bendix clutch
- insulate the motor terminals at turbine side

Thanks guys for your help.

Chris
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03-29-2016 12:39 PM  4 years ago
Notar

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Did you get this heli from the late Stephen Fan? Looks like the Aircrane i sold him many years ago.
Joe
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03-29-2016 04:12 PM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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Yep. Do you know its history before it went to Stephen?
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03-29-2016 09:56 PM  4 years ago
Notar

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Yes, i built it for a guy here in the US. It was the first crane out there. The guy wanted to sell it,and i was good friends with Stephen, buiding him several helis, he bought it. It was really box stock and all, not alot of detail, just small things. The turbine came from JetCat USA, and was one of the first recalled to redo the rear gearbox. After that, it was fine.
Jeo
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03-30-2016 05:55 AM  4 years ago
Chris.C

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To me, it is already a good piece of work. Stephen's CH53 is also your work?

I am buying a set of Vario made navigation lights for it. What else I can put on to it?

As for the turbine, I see the problem is due to long time storage that the Oring becomes brittle, the bendix clutch was sticky and the plastic mount flex downward that created a short when warm. Now it is running very well but I am not able to test fly it yet.

Since I acquired my Zyclone turbine and now the Skycrane, the interest in the club towards scale turbine heli raise a lot. Before that, only the plank guys flying different fighter jets, now among heli guys, we have Starwood Lama, 2 Vario Lama, a Martin Sollner Lama and a EC135 just arrived unassemble, and a Mi24 in storage.

We will have 2nd scale competition or a party in May. I hope my Skycrane can make it, am still waiting for the blades.
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03-30-2016 09:34 PM  4 years ago
Notar

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No, i did not do the CH53. I did a Huey, 900 Notar, 47GII, and Aircrane.
The lights and pilot are about it for that heli, unless you want to start detailing it out with a lot of extra plumbing which goes on there.
Joe
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