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HomeOff Topics › Mars in three days?
02-23-2016 02:08 PM  34 months agoPost 1
albatross

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Texas, Houston area

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Watch at YouTube

...my handle backwards is how I feel about current world affairs...

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02-23-2016 11:32 PM  34 months agoPost 2
JayL

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Leesburg GA

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Speaking of interstellar that was a good movie. Thx for posting this I really enjoy the thought of mankind going to the stars one day.

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02-24-2016 01:30 AM  34 months agoPost 3
GyroFreak

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the thought of mankind going to the stars one day.
also like the idea, but there are some relativistic time concerns.
I had a chart but can't find it right now about traveling at near the speed of light.
For the traveler, if it takes five years to get to the nearest star, and five years to get back, time on earth will have elapsed 100 years, while the traveler only aged 10 years. These numbers are only approximate of what I can remember. Hard to get my head around this stuff.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-24-2016 01:46 AM  34 months agoPost 4
GyroFreak

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Found it. It was based on acceleration rate of 1 G.
Looks like a round trip for the traveler of 23 years will be 1000 earth years. A little discouraging, dang you Einstein.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-24-2016 03:12 AM  34 months agoPost 5
JayL

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Hard to wrap my head around the amount of time gained and lost at the same time by space travel. Maybe one day we will figure out how to fly off to different worlds.

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02-24-2016 02:30 PM  34 months agoPost 6
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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Freak, where did you get that chart? I'd love to read the rest of it. Proxima doesn't look that bad really - 6 years experienced by the crew for 10 years of earth time, does that include deceleration to land ,turn around, and return?

This is really cool stuff. Lots of hard science fiction has been written about futures where we would colonize the solar system and maybe visit other start traveling like this.

The reality is that short of some unbelievable breakthrough or new understanding of the laws of physics traveling beyond the speed of light appears to be impossible... however traveling near the speed of light might indeed be possible someday if technologies such as these pan out.

The problem is finding a fuel source and propulsion technology that will maintain 1G of thrust for weeks, months or years.

Once you do it so many possibilities open up - sure going to other stars will involved trips spanning generations, but the solar system suddenly becomes easy. Accelerating at 1G a trip to something like Jupiter takes less than a week, rather than years. And a side benefit is you get to walk around the ship in normal earth gravity the whole time other than a few minutes of weightlessness in the middle.... you burn halfway there accelerating at 1G, then turn the ship around fire the engine back up and decelerate at 1G the rest of the way. Trips within the solar system would never exceed a few fractions of a % of light speed so relativistic effects are negligible.

If you find this stuff fascinating and like fiction; then shows like the new SciFi channel series "the Expanse" might be interesting to you - it portrays a future where humans travel this way. As do a lot of Hard SciFi novels including Ben Bova's "grand tour" novels, many of Stephen Baxter's works (Proxima, Time Ships, etc), many of Arthur C Clark's works just to name a few.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-24-2016 02:41 PM  34 months agoPost 7
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Here is where the chart came from, lots of info on this link...
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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02-24-2016 03:15 PM  34 months agoPost 8
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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So you're saying...
If I have a watch left on earth and one on my wrist as I do a 5 year trip to the nearest star then another 5 years back... My earth watch would have logged 100 years while my wrist watch logged only 10?

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02-24-2016 06:28 PM  34 months agoPost 9
jharkin

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Thanks for the link Freak, reading it now...
So you're saying...
If I have a watch left on earth and one on my wrist as I do a 5 year trip to the nearest star then another 5 years back... My earth watch would have logged 100 years while my wrist watch logged only 10?
Correct - since you need to travel at close to light speed you experience time dilation due to relativity. The time difference increases the closer you get to light speed. In theory if it where possible to travel at light speed time would actually stop and from the perspective of the traveler you would get to your destination instantly.

Things get even weirder then you consider that the speed of light is constant regardless of the observers point of view. Like this:

- Say you are standing still.
- I go by in a car moving 100mph.
- From your perspective I'm moving away at 100mph.
- Then you get in a car and chase after me at 99mph.
- Now I only appear to be moving away from you at 1 mph (100-99=1).

Relativity says that doesn't work for light:

- Say you are I are both standing still.
- A beam of light goes by at 186,000 miles per second.
- From our perspective its moving away at 186,000 miles per second.
- Then you get in a spaceship traveling at 185,999 miles per second. I stay still.
- The light beam is still appears to move away from you at 186,000 miles per second, AND at the same time appears to move away from me at the exact same 186,000 miles per second.

Weird isn't it????

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-24-2016 06:47 PM  34 months agoPost 10
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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great discussion...but why is this in the main page...shouldnt this be in the off topics section?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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02-24-2016 07:45 PM  34 months agoPost 11
Flyin for Jesus

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I understand the fact that if you travel for 5 years at double the speed of light... that once you land, you can grab your telescope and see yourself in the middle of your trip... and for 2 1/2 years, see yourself going backwards to Earth ( or wherever you started from )
Perspective changes... but the passage of time remains the same.

Traveling at 10X speed of light is, unfortunately, no Fountain of Youth.

When you look at the sun... you're seeing where it WAS 8 minutes ago. Look at a far off galaxy, you're seeing what it looked like hundreds of years ago. But... time passage remains constant.

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02-24-2016 08:04 PM  34 months agoPost 12
jharkin

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I understand the fact that if you travel for 5 years at double the speed of light... that once you land, you can grab your telescope and see yourself in the middle of your trip... and for 2 1/2 years, see yourself going backwards to Earth ( or wherever you started from )
Perspective changes... but the passage of time remains the same.

Traveling at 10X speed of light is, unfortunately, no Fountain of Youth.

When you look at the sun... you're seeing where it WAS 8 minutes ago. Look at a far off galaxy, you're seeing what it looked like hundreds of years ago. But... time passage remains constant.
Not quite....

Time is relative, and it does move slower in the reference frame of the traveler.. This effect occurs for any two objects moving at different speeds in the universe, its just too small to to really matter at less than near light speeds ( called "relativistic speeds" in physics). But its happening all the time.. In fact Scott Kelley is going to come home from the ISS a few nanosecond younger than his twin brother. Also GPS satellites have to account for relativistic time differences in their internal atomic clocks relative to the ground station time reference from the naval observatory in DC.

Another point - you wont be traveling faster than light. As we understand physics today that's impossible. The argument in this thread is to make a trip like this traveling very close to the speed of light, and when you do that time Does slow down in the frame of reference of the traveler. You will "time travel" in the sense that you will experience time slower than somebody left behind - so in effect you can time jump forward to the far future by taking a trip at near lightspeed and coming back. However you will never be able to look back and see yourself and never be able to go back in time.

Read about time dilation:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...me_dilation.svg

(the chart above shows the ratio of observer to traveler time on the vertical axis and speed as a fraction of light speed on the horizontal. The ratio goes exponentially to infinity as you approach light speed, therefore at 0.9C its 2.3x, 0.99 is 7x, 0.999 is 22x, 0.9999 is 100x, and so un until the multiple is in the 10s of thousands if you get to like .99999999)

the argument of taking 1000 years for a trip of 23 years is an example where you are accelerating to something like 99.95% of light speed. For a simpler example imagine you are flying to Proxima Centauri (4.2 LY) at the speed where time dilation slows down time by half (85% of light speed).

distance = 4.2 light years
speed = 0.85C
Time for ship to reach Proxima from earths perspective = 4.2 / 0.85 = approx 5 years
Relative time experienced by the crew = 5 / 2 = 2.5 years

Make it a round trip and the crew will experience 5 years and we will see them as gone for 10.

This stuff is not easy to wrap one's heard around.. if it where we would all have careers in astrophysics Stephen Hawking's Brief History of Time is a good read on this and is actually not that hard to get into, he puts it all into layman's terms without the complex math. Neil Degrasse Tyson also wrote a book recently called Death by Black Hole that looks good, covering this and a lot of other topics. My wife just got me that one and I have not yet read it.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-25-2016 01:08 AM  34 months agoPost 13
MattJen

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UK

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time slows down as you approach the speed of light..

I remember sitting in a lecture about black holes and relativity, as we know not even light can escape a black hole, it was said that if two astronauts approached a black hole and we watched them from earth, from our view point they approach and disappear into it, but from their viewpoint as they sped up time would slow down and from their point of view they would not reach it cos the faster they were going the slower time would be..

interesting, but don't fully understand it...

it reminded of an episode of star trek voyager, where the ship was above planet traveling round it fast, but the planet time difference was much slower, so what was minutes on voyager was years on the planet surface.

All The Best

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02-25-2016 01:23 AM  34 months agoPost 14
Gearhead

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Vt

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Looks like a round trip for the traveler of 23 years will be 1000 earth years. A little discouraging, dang you Einstein
and when you get back to Earth you will find monkeys controlling the world.

oh wait, monkeys are already controlling the world

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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02-25-2016 01:28 AM  34 months agoPost 15
MattJen

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UK

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lol lol lol and flying drones

All The Best

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02-25-2016 07:11 AM  34 months agoPost 16
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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distance = 4.2 light years
speed = 0.85C
Time for ship to reach Proxima from earths perspective = 4.2 / 0.85 = approx 5 years
Relative time experienced by the crew = 5 / 2 = 2.5 years

So 4.2LY takes light 4.2 years to reach... but a crew traveling at .85 x speed of light will get there in 2.5 years?

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02-25-2016 12:24 PM  34 months agoPost 17
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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and when you get back to Earth you will find monkeys controlling the world.


"Damn you all to hell!"

Great movies

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-25-2016 12:26 PM  34 months agoPost 18
jharkin

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So 4.2LY takes light 4.2 years to reach... but a crew traveling at .85 x speed of light will get there in 2.5 years?
Light will get there in 4.2 years. From our point of view watching the ship leave it will seem to get there in 5 years travailing at 85% lightspeed. The people on the ship will only feel 2.5 years go by since time slows down for them.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-25-2016 04:59 PM  34 months agoPost 19
Flyin for Jesus

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Troy, IL. 62294

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From our point of view watching the ship leave it will SEEM to get there in 5 years
That's the important part. Its all about our perspective.

So a watch strapped to a beam of light will take 4.2 years.
And a watch strapped to my wrist would show 5 years if I traveled at .85 light speed ( assuming instant acceleration and deceleration )

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02-26-2016 02:12 AM  34 months agoPost 20
Gearhead

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jharkin, and Nova

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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