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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Serious Battery Fire
02-25-2016 06:17 PM  33 months agoPost 61
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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Thanks.
Yeah at the end of the day it was stuff, material stuff, family and home safe. things can be replaced lives can't.

I will never be in the scale competiton scene as I was before because my model was a one off, but I can look back with satisfaction and with 14 trophies I can say I did it when I could.

Now I am just happy with what ive got..

Matt

All The Best

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02-25-2016 06:21 PM  33 months agoPost 62
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Yeah, when the guy walked over to the bench, he looked like he had to unattached it rather then just grab it and go outside with it.
+1

If you'll look at my rant post on page 2, I was saying the exact same thing. Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.
I bet they tried to bring it up and it failed....
Yup. Just sitting there my arse, LOL

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02-26-2016 05:39 PM  33 months agoPost 63
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Yeah, when the guy walked over to the bench, he looked like he had to unattached it rather then just grab it and go outside with it. He also did the worst thing when trying to extinguish it, he dropped it on the ground and started stomping it, thereby releasing even more energy.
A dead lipo does not have that type of energy, a charged or charging one does. I bet they tried to bring it up and it failed....
I agree. I don't believe the battery was just sitting on the bench. It sure looks like the first one to the battery has to unplug it. It was a known problem battery to begin with so it was already predisposed to be a problem. This was not an example of a known good battery sitting at rest and spontaneously shorting and catching fire.

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02-27-2016 11:59 AM  33 months agoPost 64
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Conspiracy NOT!
I will not just brand someone a liar.

When the guy reached for the battery, I think he was trying to pull a hot battery out of the way of expensive equipment. They say it was not plugged into anything just lying on the counter. It was likely very hot.

The guy said it was not being charged... I will take his word for it. I find it hard to believe because I have never seen a fire from a discharged battery... but again, you have to trust someone. How did customer even get it down to 5V?

Why would they lie? What possible gain do they have? Are they trying to cover up the replacement of the quad? If so, why would they post the video?

Sometimes, things just don't add up and it is not because they are lying. Even video does not tell everything sometimes.

The guy sitting at the desk next to the battery should be fired... all he did was flee the scene. He did not even go for the fire extinguisher.

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02-27-2016 01:36 PM  33 months agoPost 65
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Liability? If you are charging a known bad battery then you look irresponsible. If a battery just "combusts" then you are in the clear...
Been around many lipos, for many years, never had one just spontaneous combust as this situation is leading us to believe. Every time I saw a lipo go up (in person or online) the lipo was mistreated and / or unattended.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-27-2016 01:52 PM  33 months agoPost 66
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I hope that charger had current firmware. TP had firmware issues a few years back, and as a good friend of mine can attest, when the bug uncommonly appeared, things got "exciting" very quickly.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-27-2016 03:07 PM  33 months agoPost 67
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Look at the video... it clearly says the battery was not being charged. It was lying on the bench. We all agree, very unusual.

The point I was trying to make... everyone on the internet is not a liar. It could have happened just like they said... and that is a real concern.

I have charged the dickens out of batteries, and knocked holes in them and never got a fire like that. Remember the DJI batteries have built in charging circuitry. They are charged with a 2 port charging cord.

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02-28-2016 02:22 AM  33 months agoPost 68
Aaron29

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USA

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I kind of see your point. This could be one of those "never happens" until it happens to you personally.

Still, given the two theories, I guess I'm more apt to choose the conspiracy theory.

Choose one...

Theory A:

Battery bursts into flames for no reason. Guy handles in awkward manner that sure as heck looks like he's unhooking it but he's not.

Theory A requires me to swallow not one but two VERY difficult things to digest.

Vs.

Theory B:

Battery bursts into flames during charge. Guy handles in manner consistent with and indicative of unplugging.

Theory B only requires that the declaration of just sitting there be inaccurate. There are a myriad of reasons this declaration could be wrong... Bad memory. Self delusion. A lie. .. Why lie? Embarrassment. Liability. Competing interest with manufacturer. Pick one.

For me, it's way more believable than scenario A.

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02-28-2016 03:03 AM  33 months agoPost 69
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Just HOW do we teach SAFETY AWARENESS ?? Especially when their is so much resistance to Safety EDUCATION ?/

Few even can fathom the outcome -

THE GREATEST WALL IS PRIDE

Second is the IDOT no MATTER how much Talent or Money

The List is absolutely endless of Excuses - the weight of responsibility is VERY SOUL disturbing if you are responsible for LIFE ! The property is a discard. Your Decision CALL

The simplest dis re- guard can cost a life or limb - THEN YOU GET to MAKE the PHONE CALL . Or attend a funeral

Or go to the SITE and see the mishap as it accumulated to the event.

DO NOT follow protocols - NO MATTER how much Education or Lettuce you got on hanging your WALL or YOU do NOT have natural Spider sense - Have NOT been Coached with a Experienced player -

OUT >>>>>>>- Lot of Barneys with ONE Bullet :

Have total respect - Double check than have ANOTHER you trust Double check. Listen for the : GOOD / GOOD Then TEST IT !!! prior

If the comfort level is NOT their : IT's NO !!!

greyeagle

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02-28-2016 01:55 PM  33 months agoPost 70
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I just cannot swallow that the lipo, at 5 volts mind you, burst into flames that violently. Lipos need energy to be violent. A dead lipo is almost uneventful when punctured, that is exactly how I dispose of mine. I drain them to below 3.0 volts per cell (higher than what that batter was supposedly at), then I take a hammer and a pick tool and finish them off by puncturing all cells. They smoke for about 2-3 minutes, then stop and I place the remains in a salt water bath. Never had one burst into flames, never had one get violent.
Now a fully charged lipo, different story.
I remember when those Chargers had the bug that would change the lipo cell count inadvertently and cause many a fire...that would not be the lipos fault...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-28-2016 02:37 PM  33 months agoPost 71
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Agree with Ron...fully charged pack will have thunder and lightning if the pack is damaged.

A dead pack...a little thunder but no lightning.

I think the problem here is there was a lack of respect for the technology and the end result was it wasn't attended to properly.

I have seen a lot of lipo fires(controlled environment). It does take some time for it to go thermal even when punctured. If your watching it you can do something about it...

Bottom line, respect that you have a fire ball contained in some mylar and heat shrink.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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02-28-2016 03:02 PM  33 months agoPost 72
icanfly

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ontario

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sucks dont it.

Recently I had the dubious task of testing servos for use , low and behold I took a freshly charged 1300mah lipo and hooked it up after the servo and esc throttle wires were connected to a servo tester. Now even after being diligent to make sure the wires were oriented correctly there was a small distraction at the moment of being interrupted by another person, for just a second or two. I thought nothing of checking my wiring again and attached the lipo when in less than two seconds the lipo went from cool to hot and at the beginning stages of puffing. The lipo was unplugged unceremoniously and I realized my mistake. When i was distracted even after making dead sure the negative esc wire was in the negative pin on the tester it was the moment I was distracted that it was plugged in wrong. The rig shorted the lipo which seriously caught me off guard.

There is a difference in diffusion potential of a fully charged lipo compared to one at storage charge. Like a loaded rubber band the high state of charge will create a dump surge from the lipo fully charged, be extra careful with fully charged lipos. Drained packs don't smoke or anything, fully charged ones want to release all the electricity in a hurry therefore smoke and likely flames.

The cinder block with a sand bag on top while charging is a good idea. Separation of lipos while charging also. I in all honesty would make a block of concrete with square holes for lipos. I wonder what putting the lipos in a bag and filling the hole with water or sand might do so if the lipo burned through the bag it would be immersed in the surrounding wata, or would the wata steam off.

My routine is to charge 6 lipos at the same time on a parallel board so I always have to watch them while charging, and in the first minute check to see right away if any are developing heat. Heat is a sure sign of a problem. Also, if you begin to charge different lipos with a variety of states of charge you will run into problems and fast, the amps going to the lowest cells in order to bring them up to balance with all the others will increase, I made that mistake (photos in gallery). Plug the lipos on the board all together and leave them for at least 15 minutes to balance out on their own before applying the charger.

A concrete block with little gopher holes, that's the ticket.

I would say if you want to dispose of a lipo dig a hole in the ground and bury it, it'll eventually go flat a month or so later especially if the ground is always wet.

Can't wait till the new non-combustible lithium batteries came out.

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02-28-2016 03:07 PM  33 months agoPost 73
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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If you ever do this :
I take a hammer and a pick tool and finish them off by puncturing all cells. They smoke for about 2-3 minutes, then stop
Never in a confined space - such as a Office Building, Your Home, a apartment, a shop, or even a garage where others or pet's are exposed to the gases or where a unknown contaminant may remain no matter how small the particulate. It's Lithium - The assumption of RISK to OTHERS

Do it out door's -and stay up wind.

With that being said : Since it is a rare Earth Mineral : It { if it can be recovered } may have a pretty good recycle value.

SURE the OEM has Strict / Standardized - Safe HEATH population practices they follow rigidly.

greyeagle

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02-28-2016 03:53 PM  33 months agoPost 74
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I think the problem here is there was a lack of respect for the technology and the end result was it wasn't attended to properly.
In fairness to the OP, he immediately took responsibility for his fire. He shared his story to help us, and that takes bravery and integrity to share the story with full disclosure so that others do not repeat his mistake. He's well aware of why it happened and paid a pretty steep price.

Want everyone clear that the one we're bagging on is the EZDrone video.

What I'm trying to get at is that these batteries deserve our respect for proper handling and charging, but if I honestly thought they might explode at any second for absolutely no reason, they would not be in my life. They would not be in my airplanes. They would not be in my car as I transport to the field and back. And they certainly would never be inside my house or garage.

The video claiming that batteries spontaneously explode is not in keeping with what I've learned and experienced. If accurate, it would mean LIPOs are not safe even when properly handled. The only way I could respond to that would be to completely remove LIPOs from my life. Darn right I question it.

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02-28-2016 04:00 PM  33 months agoPost 75
utahbob

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St. George Utah

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I too question that vid
The caption should read "lipo battery went from cool to warm..from warm to hot..puffed up..and ignited without any of these guys noticing". We've all seen or experienced a more than warm pack that was over discharged..you set them in some shade away from vehicles etc. and they usually cool down and then you can evaluate them..sometimes they don't cool down..we had a guy in our town who was flying his plane in front of his house..he over discharged a pack..it came down hot; he took it into the house and got another pack (that was charging unattended) left the hot pack inside the house and went to fly again..well you know what happened. .he lost alot! These packs are like guns..enjoy em but treat them like they are loaded..if that scenario of someone sending in a pack that was in trouble..but showed no signs of it is true..we might see shipping costs for our batteries skyrocket..I think there's more to that story.

I do a great decending funnel!

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02-28-2016 04:06 PM  33 months agoPost 76
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Most our batteries are flown from China, and have a nominal voltage. If they were ready to go off at any minute, there'd be airplanes crashing all over the world. The FAA would not allow them near an airplane.

If I'm wrong it's back to nitro, because there's no way to tolerate something that can destroy your house or harm you even when properly used.

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02-28-2016 05:02 PM  33 months agoPost 77
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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I have to say any saying that using A pressure cooker pot to charge or store in is concidered a criminal act is nuts n needs some mental help IMHO how nuts is that n as said one can use their own safety devices how they see fit

That said the only times we seen flame out is when Irwin's peeps would select the wrong setting n walk away to different part of warehouse

Prob seen damage n yes flames n smoke that lingers n has chemical smell but had they used a thermo couple with alarm You will see every error possible. Every lipo they goes up has to meet a thermal run away that's why we watch balance taps.

Only seen damage from esc fets shorting but scares the ****e out of me one can't do a thing but hope n pray it never happend s. a resting lipo has a 2% chance of levitating on its own n shorting the battery connections. I still prefer to store in a plastic rigid boxes all togather with caps taped over balance connectors I also use caps over my cc bullets. I charge 1.5c max n always let it sit for 15 mins after flying.

I never use a damaged lipo slight puff included. I do not risk it n I charge on table as I watch the lap top bantum graphing software.

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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02-28-2016 05:24 PM  33 months agoPost 78
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I have to say any saying that using A pressure cooker pot to charge or store in is concidered a criminal act is nuts n needs some mental help IMHO how nuts is that n as said one can use their own safety devices how they see fit
The issue is this:
When the lipo lets off, it has to be able to off gas and vent super heated smoke and flames. If it is confined to a pressure cooker, the cooker may not be able to let the smoke and flames out fast enough (as it is designed for food and a constant heat source that is controlled). When the output of gasses and flames reaches the point of over load, you now have a bomb that can do WAYYYY more damage then the lipo by itself ever could.
I totally agree that using a pressure cooker os a bad idea, there are just too many things that could go wrong before they went right....Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-28-2016 05:30 PM  33 months agoPost 79
JEEPWORLD2002/2

rrKey Veteran

Blue Bell, Pa

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I don't seal mine as wires just a steel pot with cracked lid that way it's contained n can be seperates from charger n tossed out the window. As I said never had a problem but if I do want some thing to hold it n toss if one took off the guage n possibly added extra hole or two it would work as well as a ammo can which I use too

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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02-28-2016 05:35 PM  33 months agoPost 80
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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That may be what YOU do but people google search these topics and they see "a pressure cooker is safe" and then blow up their homes. You have to clarify exactly what you do so that others, who don't read the whole thread, do not blindly follow your advice. On the outset, it is VERY dangerous.....

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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