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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › FAA up date
02-06-2016 03:38 AM  31 months agoPost 21
revmix

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NJ

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by 336 CBO Safety Code
'intended exclusively for sport, recreation, education and/or competition.'

http://www.modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx

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02-06-2016 04:51 AM  31 months agoPost 22
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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The only thing I see 336 doing at this time is possibly making the FAA registration invalid
Here is where I respectfully have to disagree. I don't think there is anyone who disagrees with the interpretation that a model aircraft is indeed an aircraft. And as such, the FAA and DOT have always maintained that aircraft must be registered. Up until now, the FAA seems to have just not enforced that requirement for models, because until we started having all the issues with MR "drones", there were not any issues with traditional modeling activities.

Based on typical knee jerk reactions that government entities sometimes use, I am surprised that the FAA didn't come out and require each and every model to be issued a specific N number. Yes, I know that the FAA itself probably was ill equipped to handle the amount of paperwork that would have resulted, but rationality hasn't always been their strongest suit.

Here is where I envision the penalties really happening. Some bozo goes out and buys a "drone" and decides to so something dumb. Say the airport operator calls the local police who are able to identify the individual. This is one example where I think the FAA will go after enforcement action, one for flying at an airport and also for not registering, a double penalty.

I feel the registration and marking requirements are so that in the above scenario, if the guy splits and isn't personally identified, and law enforcement can find the drone, they will be able to identify the individual for enforcement action.

We all know the reasoning behind the registration and identification process. I don't really feel we can win a legal case based off a 336 defense, if someone does something to endanger the NAS. Just MHO.

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02-06-2016 05:00 AM  31 months agoPost 23
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I see nothing in 336 that defines model aircraft as "aircraft".

Here is the reg:

MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model
aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating
the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

What is the definition of aircraft?

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-06-2016 05:15 AM  31 months agoPost 24
revmix

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NJ

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02-06-2016 05:19 AM  31 months agoPost 25
aceisback

rrApprentice

Terre Haute, IN

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We all know the reasoning behind the registration and identification process. I don't really feel we can win a legal case based off a 336 defense, if someone does something to endanger the NAS. Just MHO.
I think I worded that 336 statement wrong, as I pretty much agree with everything you stated. It seems like many are wanting to sue the FAA by using 336 to deem the FAA registration process invalid, yet there is more to both 336 and the FAA's interpretation of who can do what (if that makes sense).

I just don't see how the 336 argument can hold water, because if it did, the FAA could not use existing laws or create new ones designed to punish those who should be punished. I see 336 as being in place so that as long as a pilot flies responsibly, then all is well, but if they go beyond the standard guidelines and fly over people, around other full size aircraft, or anyplace where they should not be, then 336 should have no bearing on whether or not the pilot could be punished due to it preventing rules being made that encompass model aircraft.

A model aircraft is an aircraft, but trying to say it isn't probably won't hold up.

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02-06-2016 05:30 AM  31 months agoPost 26
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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A model aircraft is an aircraft, but trying to say it isn't probably won't hold up.
Seemed to hold up in the Pirker case:

http://www.salawus.com/media/public...B_March2014.pdf

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-06-2016 07:51 AM  31 months agoPost 27
aceisback

rrApprentice

Terre Haute, IN

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Seemed to hold up in the Pirker case:
While true at that time, that is one of the issues leading up to where we are now. If Amazon and such get their drones flying, our models will probably no longer be models, but who knows. Hopefully, they will still distinguish hobby from commercial though...

The Pirker case did not involve injury or damage, or the outcome may have been different. The case ended with a settlement, who knows where it would have gone if both sides had pursued it through it's potential entirety.

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02-06-2016 11:46 AM  31 months agoPost 28
HeliDinoRC

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Virginia, USA

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In Huerta, Administrator, FAA v Pirker the NTSB Opinion and Order (NTSB Order EA-5730, Docket CP-217, issued 11/18/2014) in section 2A1defines "model aircraft" as "aircraft" as per Title 49 U.S.C, Section 40102(a)(6) and per 14 C.F.R. Section 1.1.

This opinion was issued after the article in the paper cited above.

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/Pages/pirker.aspx

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02-06-2016 12:12 PM  31 months agoPost 29
EEngineer

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TX

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I just don't see how the argument can hold water
Simply because Senator James Inhofe(R-OK) successfully included Sec. 336 into this bill that was duly signed into Federal Law.

Which in no uncertain terms, excludes RC "hobbyists" from any arbitrary and capricious rulings by the FAA.

Again, RC "hobbyists" are exempt.....at this time by current Federal Law.

At this time, because the Sec. 336 exemption is Federal Law, the FAA can't fine any RC "hobbyists" for failing to register.....period.

If the FAA tries to pull that BS on anyone, the FAA would be laughed out of any court.

More likely, when an attorney sends them merely a letter informing the FAA of their BS....the FAA would cease and desist in your case.

The FAA has a "budget" and they don't have the funding to pursue each an every case of an RC "hobbyist"....instead they are trying to frighten and "sucker" you all to pay them.

I have no idea why the AMA is doing what they are doing....But, their leadership needs a change.

Nor does the AMA address this specific issue of what is currently Federal Law....given that the AMA "proclaimed" victory when Sec. 336 was passed into Federal Law....

Which, by the way, would supercede any state laws by any local corrupt politicians.

Now, if one is so stupid as to fly near an airport....or even from some park where people walk, then there are many other laws that apply.

You want tighter control....then write your Congressmen and complain....lol

Until Sec. 336 is repealed....ALL RC "hobbyists" are exempt from any rulings by the FAA....at this time.

And therefore, the FAA can't impose any fines....period.

But everyone is free to donate whatever sum they wish to give to the FAA....it's your choice.

FWIW

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02-07-2016 01:30 AM  31 months agoPost 30
aceisback

rrApprentice

Terre Haute, IN

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Until Sec. 336 is repealed....ALL RC "hobbyists" are exempt from any rulings by the FAA....at this time.
Once again, only "IF" you meet the criteria in 336. May pilots are not complying with the 336 criteria.

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02-07-2016 12:04 PM  31 months agoPost 31
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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But I am, and thus I am exempt....at this time....

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02-09-2016 04:53 PM  31 months agoPost 32
AirWolfRC

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02-09-2016 08:08 PM  31 months agoPost 33
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Anyone seen this?

The title is wrong but it shouldn't have happened.

Watch at YouTube

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-09-2016 08:26 PM  31 months agoPost 34
rapidity

rrVeteran

ohio

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that's years old.

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02-09-2016 09:18 PM  31 months agoPost 35
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know for sure if it was. It just illustrates the kind of thing that the FAA looks at when they consider modelers impact on the NAS. I don't see where the modeler was at fault there.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-09-2016 10:26 PM  31 months agoPost 36
rapidity

rrVeteran

ohio

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I don't remember exactly, but I think he was faulted.

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02-09-2016 10:53 PM  31 months agoPost 37
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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In that one, I recall the guy making the high speed pass had a habit of doing that . . . un-announced.

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02-10-2016 01:00 AM  31 months agoPost 38
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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One must closley listen to the commentary Wisdom : As they Walk back ! However--

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Listen for the Motor's A Balboa !!!

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You Did ?

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