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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlight School › Normal Rate VS Heading hold!
02-02-2016 08:44 PM  29 months agoPost 1
reinhardt37

rrNovice

Phoenix, AZ USA

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Hello all,

I am trying to understand the workings of the Heading Hold function of a gyro. Currently I am flying in Rate Mode with the gain set as high as possible. Is Rate mode just a dialed down version of heading hold??

While tuning my heli I wondered if it would make sense to shorten the Tail blade linkage? Because when I turn the gain off my helicopter rotates clockwise like a Full Scale Helicopter would if the tail blade were set without compensation. I'm sure this is always debated but I didn't see anything in Flight school.

My first question is the topic. THanks for staying ON topic!

Thanks,
AR

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02-02-2016 08:54 PM  29 months agoPost 2
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Nope. Rate mode senses rate of change in the tail, and attempts to stop/slow the rotation. It makes no effort to return to the initial position. Heading hold also senses change, but attempts to return to the initial heading (hence the name, "heading hold" instead of just dampening the rotation.

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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02-02-2016 09:28 PM  29 months agoPost 3
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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In rate mode you want to set the neutral so that it doesn't rotate left or right. So adjust the linkage till u get no rotation. Then switch to head hold n set gain till it holds while doing some pitch jumps

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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02-02-2016 09:30 PM  29 months agoPost 4
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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What I follow and was told was that when in rate mode, you should set up your tail linkage so that the heli would not rotate around the yaw axis when in a steady hover, and that was the best mechanical setup that you could do.

Since I've switched over to FBL, I don't check anything with rate mode, but on the setups, I bias the tail blades a couple turns shorter than dead center (against the torque) which is where the setup in rate mode usually ended up.

FWIW, when I fly, it is always in HH mode.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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02-03-2016 01:41 AM  29 months agoPost 5
HilliHeli

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S.MI./FL.

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I bias the tail blades a couple turns shorter than dead center (against the torque)
I have used this method (mainly with flybar'd set-up's),
about 8 degrees (against the torque as rcfh suggested)

!Antriebe, die bewegen!
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Jazz', Jives & vbar's
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02-03-2016 06:17 PM  29 months agoPost 6
flycatch

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Barstow, California

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02-04-2016 09:16 PM  29 months agoPost 7
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Ok cool I have gather a lot of info from your responses. My heli Is flying better now but I am unable to put it in Rate mode yet. Today it rotated counter clockwise. Perhaps I am not skilled enough to try Rate mode yet but if I could put rudder sub trim in my TX for the AR7200BX that would be a useful feature. I will keep at it and try to improve my setup every flight.

elevator flips are fine. Backwards flight is fine. So I believe my hardware is well tuned but when I did aileron Flips the Tail blew out on the second flip. This has led me to believe I will absolutly need to get into rate mode. My Dials 1 and 2 are turned down and everything is perfect!, but the heading hold is a feature that will not work for where I want to go as a RC heli pilot.

I will keep adjusting the linkage but I do not fully understand this feature still. The helicopter rotated 20RMPs counter clockwise which means I shortened the linkage too much but only by a tiny bit! Now I will lengthen it and redo my Tail servo endpoints but if I could add sub trim that would make much more sense. I also worry because seeing as I have about 900(x)'s more SIM time than Real Time Perhaps I am not ready for rate mode.

Trying not to be too wordy. When I adjust the gain in my TX the lights on the AR7200BX are "H" at 0% gain (TX) and "A" at 47% gain (TX). The manual Says A=%0 and H= -%100 in rate mode, So this had led me to try a higher setting of C and moving forward from there. I don't believe the heli should rotate or that I would need to add Rudder with Collective just like a Full Scale Helicopter. That is what I don't understand.

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02-04-2016 09:21 PM  29 months agoPost 8
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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My point is that i am happy to fly the tail at all times but if Rate mode can't hold my tail while doing hard Pitch inputs that would be too confusing for me at this point. I'm sure once I understand this feature I will know EVERYTHING! haha pardon my humor.

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02-04-2016 10:32 PM  29 months agoPost 9
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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You cannot use trim or sub trim as it will act as a input trying to turn rudder all the time best thing to do it set up Heli in rate mode. And adjust gain till in head hold mode. If it blow out on pitch pumps add in more tail gain.

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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02-05-2016 12:12 AM  29 months agoPost 10
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Using a DX9 correct?

If so, what channel are you using to control gyro gain?

Are you able to switch from RATE to HOLD via a switch?

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-05-2016 11:08 PM  29 months agoPost 11
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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DX7 so yes I can switch. When in rate mode my heli rotates in a circle. Am i suppose to help this mechanically? or just always use rudder inputs to counteract my piro tick tocks or in this case just alleron rolls in a hover? That is all i need to know now

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02-05-2016 11:22 PM  29 months agoPost 12
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Maybe somthing is wrong my AR7200? My HH switch is dialed in. For rate mode I wil find the highest gain possible and try to adjust it machanically as close as possible. I didn't realize I would always have to hold left rudder while in a hover.

I'm pretty sure the problem I'm having with aileron rolls is my gain set too high in heading hold. But if everyone is using rate mode then I better fix it

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02-05-2016 11:27 PM  29 months agoPost 13
flycatch

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Barstow, California

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The rudder servo is moving in the wrong direction. I could be wrong but it happens to the best of us.

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02-05-2016 11:37 PM  29 months agoPost 14
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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It flies fine in HH i'm mostly curious about the spinning hover as I am fresh from the sim but accomplished rc airplane pilot. Directions are fine It is easily flown in either mode

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02-06-2016 01:03 AM  29 months agoPost 15
flycatch

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Barstow, California

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What is the make and model of the gyro?

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02-06-2016 01:28 AM  29 months agoPost 16
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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It is an ar7200bx. At this point I can only see Rate mode as being a benefit for pure piro flying are expecially scale. Although this thread might not be helpful to anyone it definitely helped me do my research.
In rate mode I can piro flip up and down the field IN the SIM. So I have decided it is strictly for hardcore 3d in my case.
Once I am confident enough to take my simulator skills to the field I will certainly try rate mode. And I will definitely be using rate mode to set up my models.

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02-06-2016 01:34 AM  29 months agoPost 17
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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My hobby has been the simulator and transferring those skills to the field has been a great learning experience. Now that I am able to add rudder to my tic toks with just my thumb I feel much more confident that my tail gyro is just set with too much gain. Now I have a reason to let my helicopter sit in the shop for a week while I wait for my new tail boom, and that will give me plenty of time to practice my new ability of rudder control. It feels very similar to doing rolling circles, but it will definitely get me in trouble if I don't spend some time practicing.

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02-06-2016 02:43 AM  29 months agoPost 18
flycatch

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Barstow, California

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02-09-2016 01:57 PM  29 months agoPost 19
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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When in rate mode my heli rotates in a circle. Am i suppose to help this mechanically?
Yes. You should be able to switch between Rate & HH while in hover without affecting yaw.

Dead link above? Must be tablet.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-10-2016 02:35 PM  29 months agoPost 20
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Good to know, Thanks Pistol_Pete. I have all the knowledge needed to bring my list of options to my Heli PRO. When I build my T-Rex it will be boss!

Now I can fly the heli backwards so my Tail is now acceptable to me. My gain settings were high but now I understand the difference between HH and Rate. When I start piro flying I will kn0w what to do!

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