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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Electric General Discussion › Seeking higher torque motor. 450 or smaller if better choice.
01-29-2016 04:12 AM  3 years ago
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reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Seeking higher torque motor. 450 or smaller if better choice.
Hello everyone,
I'll keep this short

I have been flying in the simulator for years practicing and Challenging my skills. I recently bought a blade 450 X because it is the perfect size and after some tail modifications it flies perfectly for my style. I tend to fly a large patterns and slow drops rightside or inverted my style is based on the artistic use of momentum.

I do not require more head speed in fact I have lowered mine a tiny bit. I do wish to upgrade the motor but I would like to find a good match. I have an extra 35 amp new in box scorpion ESC for some reason so I should be covered there. Since I do not wish to increase head speed I would like to have a very high torque motor.

I am seeking advice on a motor that fits the 450 X but has more torque.

Thanks so much, I would be happy to learn how to fish or any suggestions will be appreciated.

Hardt
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01-31-2016 01:53 AM  3 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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The 450X is the lightest 450 Heli there.

Simplest upgrade is to use a Scorpion 2221-8.

Here is a link of if on youtube:

Watch at YouTube

your very best option is to convert to 6S. Same HS but very efficient for un-boggable performance!
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01-31-2016 04:09 AM  3 years ago
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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I, too fly with the same style as you. My best advice is, if you think the 450 flies nice, wait till you fly a 550!
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01-31-2016 04:41 AM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Thank you both for your advice, I am learning my lessons quickly. Yesterday I had a dead stick 12 feet off the ground inverted (@1:50) but I have practiced that many times in the simulator. Landed completely on the landing gear but unfortunately there was a molehill that tipped me over when the head speed was very low. Put a new feathering shaft in, which I already had, and it's back to normal. The explanation is that the beast X system uses much more electricity than I thought while standing still.

I am very excited to purchase a larger helicopter in fact today I was able to learn a pirouette tic tok maneuver in the simulator so I will be very happy once I get my Logo 550. The maneuver look like a rotating fountain, I'm sure it has been done but I had never seen it.

A scorpion will make a nice replacement once I log 100 flights on this motor.
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02-02-2016 01:36 AM  3 years ago
newbheliusr

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You guesss

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If you go 6s, get the scorp 2820-1880. Can pull 1kw. Yes, 1000 watts. Crazy power man, and just try to bog it. I use a hobbywing 50a V3 to power my X3
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02-05-2016 10:26 AM  3 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Why do you want to upgrade the motor and why do you want more torque?

A larger motor or higher voltage gives you more torque. If your reducing head speed simply drop down a pinion size, this will be more efficient and effectively gives more mechanical torque.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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02-07-2016 03:33 AM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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My logic is because I am NOT chasing after high head speed; I thought that a high torque motor would make my medium head speeds more consistent. This was my first post in my journey to make my 450 helicopter fly for 6 minutes. Perhaps my logic is flawed and that is why I am asking such general questions. My airframe could easily accommodate a larger battery but it is hard to fit under my microheli canopy. Longer flight times but not considering myself a low head-speed guy is what I am looking for. But I am in a learning phase where I have to transfer my sim skills to real life so it takes a while.

Edit: thank you for your pinion suggestion I was thinking the opposite to be true. Now I don't need to worry about my strange pinion from Lynx. I have a thread about that too.
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02-07-2016 03:39 AM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Since I don't want to start ANOTHER thread And this is the correct section. SRY but is my Scorpion Commander 35 amp esc helicopter worthy? My airplane friend of mine gave it to me 5 years ago. And it has a strange curcuit program board that I could learn to use I just can't figure out if heli ESC's are different. I'm so sorry to digress but please feel free to ignore my ESC question.
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02-07-2016 06:15 AM  3 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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I have followed Richards advice and agree about the gearing.
Dropping down a size in pinion gives you a lower HS and more torque.

I used a scorpion commander a few years back on a 450se it worked good
just follow the instructions for set up
spending time, paying attention
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02-07-2016 06:39 AM  3 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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This is the Logic

90% - 100% more HS but yields less torque
70% - 80% less HS but yields more torque

Top end does not have as much torque as medium speed. So when you increase a pinion teeth, it will net the same HS (as you are now at close to max throttle) but in actuality the motor is operating at 70%. It is in its most powerful torque band.

Now combine that with a scorpion motor (same kv rating) that has a heavier canister for more inertia, Cha Ching!

But honestly ... It's a baby heli, what do you really expect from a 450? Don't enable your stick banging ... Practice being smooth and finesse the controls.
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02-07-2016 07:38 AM  3 years ago
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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For a more consistent head speed you want a good governor like you find in the castle esc's or Kontronik. I don't think the governor in the older scorpion commanders is very good.

Being a 450x I think the stock pinion is already quite small right? 11t or something? So you might struggle to find a smaller one, your best option is to go for a lower kv motor of 2500-3000.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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02-07-2016 03:43 PM  3 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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I'm surprise you are mentioning CC and Kontronik in the same sentence as in reference to having good GOV performance. They are different ends of the spectrum. But be fair, CC has gotten better for their internal GOV

You might want to look at a YEP ESC. Excellent value and performance. Look for Mr Mel's Video on how to set it up.
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02-07-2016 05:10 PM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Thank you all for focusing on my original question too. Once my logbook hits 100 flights I will change to a Scorpion. This has saved me a lot of trouble trying to choose pinion gears I will just accept the performance for now, but with my scorpion i will know exactly what needs to be done. I will find a home for this ESC when I start flying airplanes again. Thanks again this forum is a great place to learn.
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02-07-2016 05:14 PM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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The one article in model aviation magazine about helicopters just happened to be about low head speed copters this month. To me that means this information is becoming quite easily available so I will be able to figure out what I want in a month when my motor is OLD.
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02-08-2016 07:15 AM  3 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I agree that Kontronik governors work better than CC, although there is very little in it. I mentioned the two because there simply are no other choices if you want an esc with decent governor. YGE governor is the same as Kontronik without splitting hairs only the BEC is better on the Kontronik.60% of the time, it works every time!
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02-14-2016 10:06 PM  3 years ago
reinhardt37

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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Very good so can I please have a consensus. Clearly I want a scorpion and it seems I want normal torque perhaps less kv or lots.
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02-14-2016 11:05 PM  3 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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do you want to run 3s 4s or 6s?
what gear ratio do you want use?
what headspeed do you want to use?
allot of it is personal choice depending on how they want the model to perform.

I have mine set up for learning 3d with a head speed of 2700
I use a 4S battery
I run a 11.~:1 gear ratio
I am using the stock 3600kv motor

Runtime for this set up 7 1/2 minutes
in future when the motor dies I'll use some thing around 2700kv and change gear ratio to 10:1 to use the 4S

it all depends on what you're looking for
spending time, paying attention
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