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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Promise to fly below 400'?!
01-21-2016 03:11 PM  35 months agoPost 61
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Stay on topic rev.....old RR mantra says: "if you're gonna be stupid you better be tough". Besides, AMA members get special privileges

Words to live by.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-21-2016 03:48 PM  35 months agoPost 62
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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aero
on topic
aerial appliances
the status quo
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...reason-to-stall

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01-21-2016 03:52 PM  35 months agoPost 63
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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We ve got issues
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...one-pilots.html

SO IF hospital medical heli pads are with in 5 miles you cant fly

In each incident, the drones in question were spotted by a Los Angeles Police Dept. helicopter.

Both Michael Ponce, 20, and Arvel Chappell, 35, were charged with flying above 400 feet and within 5 miles of an airport. Chappell was also charged with flying at night.

In the first incident on Dec. 9, Ponce was allegedly observed flying a drone over Griffith Park, which is within three miles of a number of hospital heliports. Police met him in the park and seized his drone.

On the second incident, just three days later, Chappell allegedly was observed flying within a quarter of a mile of Hooper Heliport. That's not a great location to fly a drone, as it's the LAPD's downtown Los Angeles helicopter base. An LAPD helicopter coming in to land allegedly had to alter its flight path to avoid the drone

We need some better maping of these so called hospital heli pads. refueling pads I ve got hospital after hospital and christ the circle up the street from my house is a emergency heli pad landing site near the northeast extension here in pa and its been used many time of the years. does this mean i cant fly at my house ??

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01-21-2016 05:00 PM  35 months agoPost 64
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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correct me if i m wrong all you full scale pilots /

HOW CAN YOU TELL A ALTITUDE OF SUM THING SO SMALL AND AT A ALTITUDE ? so lets say you at 750' looking down at a drone how can you tell how high he is ? ok so your hovering at 500' and you see said drone at your level height ?? we now equipping lapd helis with boeing sensors for targeting acquisition which would be found on military aircraft fire and forget systems ??

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01-21-2016 05:54 PM  35 months agoPost 65
Aaron29

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USA

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JEEP - fullsize response here. If I see your RC aircraft at all, you are too close.

So this point you are trying to make is moot.

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01-21-2016 05:57 PM  35 months agoPost 66
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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its all a load of Bull $hit!

there are more Hospital heli pads and airports around even small towns than they are AMA sanctioned fields.... and alot of these fields are well within 5 miles of such places.

the truth is they are trying to shut us all down....

its getting to the point that its easier to open a indoor shooting range in town than to open and operate a RC model air field.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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01-21-2016 06:08 PM  35 months agoPost 67
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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My point exactly RM3

Aaron29 I can see if from your eyes aswell. BUT AT WHAT ALT ? operating for you at 2500' u better not see anything with out it showing up in ur radar but a crop duster is flying in the same we are out in the country.

I think the precedent they trying to get to is for usrc to operate on vhf while maybe also some kinda air to ground based transponder for all rc flying crafts and have that displayed on ur little screens u full scale fly with.

ANd also trying to prohibit flying out side a club possibly licensing and regulation which i strictly OPPOSE, since it does violate the rc modeling regulations ALREADY SET FORTH

ANd as i ve said i do reach that kinda height with my rc gliders and my field is setup on a farm with in a hospital heli pad with in 2.3 miles. we operate on a private strip and have always yeilded to full scale VIA VHF.

This is huge burden as most fire station have heli refueling sites so add all (private strips heli pads, hospitals fire staions, air ports these into a map tell me where i can fly ITS GONNA LEAVE NO AIR SPACE FOR MY LITTLE RC HOBBY

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01-21-2016 06:14 PM  35 months agoPost 68
Aaron29

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USA

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JEEP - to give you an idea of why I should never see your model, if I were VFR, and had eyes on another full size aircraft who had eyes on me, and we passed within 1 mile of each other, it would be close. If it were 1/2 a mile, it's uncomfortable. And that's if we both see each other.

Center will give us 1000' vertically and 3 mile horizontal separation. Anything inside that is near miss territory.

So if I'm flying at ANY ALTITUDE and look down and can make out a drone, it's too close. A drone isn't exactly big.

A cropduster may seem to be an entirely different thing. But all the same, if I were flying a crop duster, I'd expect drones within visual range to ground themselves while I work.

BL. I stand by the statement, if I see a drone, it is too close. I'd be shocked to hear a FS pilot say different.

THE ONLY exception would have to be if I knew the drone pilot and we were doing something intentional and briefed. But I'd have to trust him a lot.

No offense, folks, but this isn't a game. FS aircraft can't buy new models or get the CA out after a mishap.

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01-21-2016 06:18 PM  35 months agoPost 69
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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have that displayed on ur little screens u full scale fly with.
Not all full scale have TCAS. In fact, many don't until you get into commercial territory.

It's up to a drone to have a spotter, identify aircraft operating in the vicinity, and avoid them. Which doesn't mean fly around them in some avoidance maneuver. It means landing.

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01-21-2016 06:24 PM  35 months agoPost 70
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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A led lit up drone is quite visible in a dark park to a lapd heli on the look out for bad guys

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01-21-2016 06:30 PM  35 months agoPost 71
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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We all know that the vast majority of aerial appliance operators are knuckleheads. Let the FAA and the locals prosecute them, tie up the courts and throw these dudes in jail. Let local law enforcement, the DOT and FAA handle this. This is their problem not ours.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-21-2016 06:34 PM  35 months agoPost 72
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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yup no all full scale air craft has TCAS. MY point i think the faa is gonna be leading to that from pressure with in from Garmin and the big boys who are gonna be pushing to say we have systems that can mitigate incidents. then the REGULATION TAXATION STARTS.

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01-21-2016 06:36 PM  35 months agoPost 73
Aaron29

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USA

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I can't justify flying an LED drone over 400' at night in a city environment where LAPD is flying. Just can't. I'm not sure how not doing this is a problem?

Look, I flew at an RC club that was 30 minutes away from home. Sure I could whip out a 450 and fly in my back yard. But I didn't. I drove to the field, even though it adds an hour to the day.

I'm seeing more and more why the FAA has done this. Once upon a time, RC pilots were very predictable. They flew mostly out of sanctioned fields or if they didn't, they were out in the sticks. Now, suburbia is their airfield. They aren't flying LOS. Everything has changed. And the risk is greatly increased.

The simple ugly truth is most RC folks have no clue how to remain safe in a FS environment. Seeing youtube videos, youtube comments, and forum comments is opening my eyes. The FAA is going to have to step in because there are some illogical ideas about safe operations out there. Going with the personal responsibility model is going to backfire eventually.

Simple fact is, regulation is coming. Eventually. The FAA will petition congress, saying they've done everything they legally could but were bound by 336 and the near misses and incidents continue. At which point congress will take off their leash.

What can you do to prevent this? Operate safely. Have a spotter. Remain low. If you see full size approaching your vicinity, land. If this is too much a burden for you, well just know that the FAA will eventually have enough ammo to undo 336 unless we police ourselves.

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01-21-2016 06:40 PM  35 months agoPost 74
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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If this is too much a burden for you,
HELLO READ MY POST i do fly at a private full scale strip. we do operate on VHF. they radio were coming, in ten minutes out, we land retract the winch lines and let em land. works great. 30 sum years its been working. but could be hard to implement through out the us ?

NOT OUR PROBLEM- Hello they have shut down all rc flying in DC. now they saying a local refueling point/overnight heli pad was close enough ?? hellos when did they say we needed to stay away from heli pads ? WHY a runway need a approach so 5 miles out i can understand hell for smaller 182 n so forth 2.5 miles would suffice.

NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES OUR HOBBY IS BEING ATTACKED. MAYBE YOUR BLINDED AS YOU CAN SAY HELL WITH IT, I'll GO FLY FULL SCALE I DO NOT HAVE MY FLYING TICKET or Means to get it at the moment, as you did. So this is my get away

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01-21-2016 06:49 PM  35 months agoPost 75
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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The difference is, FS aircraft have pink bodies in them. Your argument that FS is encroaching on your hobby will never go anywere except among fellow modelers.

I love this hobby. I police myself to the exact same criteria I'm suggesting. I had a club where full size routinely passed over at around 1000'. We landed as soon as we heard them. Then took off when they were gone. It just isn't a problem. There are many who would object to such safety measures. And for those who want to test the FAA's resolve, I guarantee they will lose. And we will lose along with them.

Truth is, it isn't up to a full size to see and avoid a tiny model. That's the drone operator's job. If we don't change their minds. The FAA will change it for us.

I really don't think the FAA will kill the hobby. The DC thing is a national security issue in their eyes. Such extreme measures are probably not coming to a rural area near you. Yes it sucks if you live in DC. But I think it's hyperbole to say the FAA will shut us down. The worst that will happen is heavy regulation. You may have to drive 30-45 minutes to fly. You may have a 400' cap in controlled airspace. But honestly, if you knew what the FS fellow knew, you'd support these measures.

I can tell you this. Making enemies of full size operators by saying you have just as much right to fly as they do isn't going to work. The fact that they carry passengers will trump anything we are doing for fun, every time. It's up to us to self police and preserve our hobby.

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01-21-2016 06:51 PM  35 months agoPost 76
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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right of way
it's the r/c player's responsibility [by #336] to know the flying area [i.e. helipad, airport, etc.] where model a/c is operated within the airspace

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01-21-2016 06:57 PM  35 months agoPost 77
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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all i saying as the heli pad shouldnt be regulated the same as a run way. YIELDING TO FULL SCALE IS A GIVEN. And if HELI PADS were to included in the 5 mile restriction zone TELL US prior. NOW these idiot flying over 500' with 250 quads yes HUGE PROBLEM. non-LOS flyers HUGE PROBLEM

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01-21-2016 06:58 PM  35 months agoPost 78
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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You say yielding is a given. Maybe for you. I've just read too many posts and seen to many videos showing that the prevailing attitude is inconsistent.

Plus, everyone has a different idea of "yield." One guy might just look and see a little blue sky between his model and the FS. And think it won't hit, I'm seeing/avoiding. He may be partially right, but he just created a near miss.

Which is why I say land. Period.

As for these guys flying over 400' in the city getting busted by LAPD. I have no idea how you can defend them. I have no sympathy for them. Sorry. There are places it's safe to operate above 400'. Metro areas aren't one.

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01-21-2016 07:07 PM  35 months agoPost 79
mr dan

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Stockton Calif

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I fly 47 mistakes high! 1 mistake would equal 10' therefore 47 would be against the law at 470' looks like I will need to fly 7.5 mistakes lower!

"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation

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01-21-2016 07:16 PM  35 months agoPost 80
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Our objections are going to be perceived like kids demanding to drive RC cars on the street while cars are driving. There just is no winning if we fight it. The more we fight it, the more regulation will be imposed. The only way to slow or stop the imposition will be to operate in a safe manner that keeps them out of our hair.

For example. you still can drive an RC car in a residential area, but when a FS car is coming, you put it in your driveway until the FS car has past. You also don't drive your RC car on the freeway no matter what the traffic flow.

These are common sense measures, that apparently elude many drone operators. Fighting common sense measures as "my right" will cause the heavy handed approach we fear.

I envision a point where drones will be capped at 400' in metro areas regardless of the presence of fields and helipads. The cap for flight in controlled airspace will probably end up at 400' at some point as well. Sailing above 1200' (highest typical floor of uncontrolled airspace) will probably eventually require a waiver. After lots of consideration, I personally have no issue with any of these measures. They would have minimal impact on the hobby while maintaining safety.

These types of things are coming, unless the incidents stop, which I don't predict will occur. So predicting the next FAA move will make me more prone to accepting it when it inevitably comes.

All I can control are my own actions. So I do. And I try to post online to educate others. That's all I can do. The FAA will not kill modeling. It may regulate the balls out of it, but like FS is a hobby for many, you'll still be able to enjoy it, restrictions and all.

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