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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Promise to fly below 400'?!
01-20-2016 03:36 AM  31 months agoPost 41
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Onto soap box -

I'm not sure y'all know the FAA like I do. FAR's are VERY specific when there are exceptions to the rule. You will see language such as "91.1234: Except as provided in 91.XYZ, pilots will ABC." Rules stand unless there is very clear guidance saying it need not. You do not want to put yourself in a position where you are caught doing something wrong, and have to say "but I heard that I could do such and such." Whatever the supposed communications are that occurred from one FAA representative at an AMA meeting, it will literally be worthless unless you can point to a concrete rule.

I think my fellow full size commercial pilots will back me up, in that if there is a way to interpret a rule so as to cause you harm, the FAA will probably find it. Until I see something in print, where the FAA specifically acknowledges this 400' thing is moot, this isn't something I can hang my FAA tickets on. I certainly am not going to break a rule based on forum advice or AMA hearsay, and put my livelihood on the line.

No offense to AMA, or y'all, but I need to hear it from the FAA.

-Steps off soap box.

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01-20-2016 03:46 AM  31 months agoPost 42
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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From the AMA email today....
We specifically addressed the 400 foot altitude limitation and explained how under appropriate circumstances some modeling activity necessarily occurs above 400’ and other activity occurs at altitude to protect modelers and spectators on the ground. The FAA understands that this community flies higher than the guideline and acknowledged that AMA pilots can abide by their own safety code which is proven to provide safe aeromodelling operations

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01-20-2016 03:47 AM  31 months agoPost 43
Aaron29

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USA

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The FAA understands that this community flies higher than the guideline and acknowledged that AMA pilots can abide by their own safety code which is proven to provide safe aeromodelling operations
Sure. I'll just refer the FAA to an AMA email. AMA hearsay isn't going to cut it. Y'all aren't getting it. Please read my last post.

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01-20-2016 04:56 AM  31 months agoPost 44
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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why do you plan on flying at the faa HQ.

they can't be every where

spending time, paying attention

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01-20-2016 07:27 PM  31 months agoPost 45
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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My head is hurting from this video:

Watch at YouTube

There are actually some interesting points here.

Watch at YouTube

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-20-2016 07:36 PM  31 months agoPost 46
Aaron29

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USA

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Wow. Those videos. Especially the first one. What can I say? If this is the mentality of the new modeling, and I've been sharing the air with these guys when I fly fullsize in the NAS, I want the FAA to step in. Listening to those videos, there are some profound logical issues with the mentality of the drone folks. It's going to take me a while to process these videos to give an itemized response explaining my point. All I can say is I'm glad to see it has a lot of dislikes, but it has about 66% likes and that scares me.

Now I'm seeing what the FAA is on about. It will take an outside force to shape these guys into responsible modeling or force them out of the air. Either way, fine by me. Because if I take a drone at 150 mph it's not going to be a good day for me or anyone on my airplane. This guy's logic, and his followers, if unchallenged, would lead to that sooner than later.

That video sort of opened my eyes. In a way, it's making me question how I feel about the FAA stepping in.

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01-20-2016 07:53 PM  31 months agoPost 47
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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What's to analyze? This is a mindset and some of the questions have merit but to me; it goes to show how far apart we are as modelers to the aerial appliance operators in terms of what they think is the norm for this type of aerial operation.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-20-2016 07:59 PM  31 months agoPost 48
Aaron29

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USA

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I can say this. His comments on visual deconfliction and the spotter/FPV/LOS astound me. Such a lack of logic. And anyone who supports flying when you cannot see/locate your aircraft, and uses FPV as a means of finding your aircraft, and spouting that as safe, will have my ire and I'm glad the FAA would, too.

I seriously doubt this guy even thinks about deconflicting with other aircraft. His comments prove that he's been flying by "big sky theory" for deconfliction.

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01-20-2016 08:38 PM  31 months agoPost 49
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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aerial appliance operators
I like that term. Being both a helicopter and multirotor user I like that term to differentiate between responsible multirotor operators and untrained and unthinking operators. (Yeah, I still dislike the term drone, as it is also RC fixed wing aircraft)
Paul

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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01-20-2016 10:43 PM  31 months agoPost 50
rexxigpilot

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Florida

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Just fly responsibly as I hope you have always done. No doubt the 400 foot ceiling is obtuse and will be revised. Model sailplanes and large scale aerobatic models would otherwise be incapable of their intended design, which is against the Congressional mandate of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act.

Don't fret the small stuff. Rules are always implemented with a need for change. Just let the FAA know the problems with the current rules. We should all remember that the FAA includes more modelers than non-modelers.

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01-20-2016 10:44 PM  31 months agoPost 51
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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Hoo boy. Tmoore, have a great respect for you and many of the others with so much to contribute to our "Hobby" but I have to respectfully disagree with your flight envelope. Sure I have a small ($60) drone and have flown it around my property, trying to get some sunset shots or horizon images, but I am not (yet) FPV. Not that I wouldn't like to be able to do this, I currently think Ill wait and see a bit how this all shakes out. Like another poster I didn't know how quad flyers fly. I assumed they always had line of sight, or a spotter when flying FPV. 1/4 mile? Out of your sight? You trust your equipment enough to have a quad that far away? I personally would not. That's just me. I surely would not want any RC flying object flying near my house or property with the pilot out of my vision. And I think that's my issue with your "flying envelope" Flying at our flying site, with a spotter (if FPV) or simply flying line of sight, I am quite good with that. Maybe the conflict here is I was expecting the Quads to fly as I do my 60 sized Helicopter.

I get that the possibility exists to fly outside that standard realm, and these quads are seemingly designed to do just what your talking about so why not use them as they may actually be intended.

I wont like any quads flying over my house, car (on the highway) back yard = my property. I have said this before in the past when Quads started to come out and was met with some disagreement on that very statement. It has only hit me today that this is quite possibly how the Quad owners wish to fly. I didn't even know you could fly that far off a standard Quad setup, didn't think the transmitter would get to the model when your that far out or up.

you mentioned 200 300 yards. Well the later is 900 feet and well into the Full scale airspace.

Please don't take offense here, and thanks for opening my eyes as well for I don't think your the exception here. If I wanted to fly FPV out over someone else's land, it would have to be up in the woods far from any homes, or on some large expanse of land say 100 acres or there abouts. Our club field is 25 acres. Seems like a lot until your on the flight line, then its really not so huge... you can see any plane or helicopter or medium size aircraft over this site and under say 400 feet. Yes the quads are white and blend into the sky/clouds, this is not new. I wont fly when my heli fades in the evening dusk sky when the light is low. Ive crashed more than once flying then. If the sky is white, I wouldn't fly a white aircraft, blue wouldn't fly a blue aircraft. My canopies are all bright yellow, green, red, so I can see them from far away. yea I agree white is not the best color for a quad. I am starting to see some black ones. When and if I buy another quad, Ill be painting it or stickering is with bright colors for sure.

And yea, I also found out about pulling the left stick back yields a Flailing quad trying to find the earth fast, but I swiftly powered back up prior to impact. Not pretty but works. I had to force myself back in the day (way back) to "fly" it to the runway after someone told me that's how I had to do it. Now I get it, I have to do the same, Fly the quad down with the right stick.... or
wait for it...
wait for it...

Hit the land button and wait for a perfect landing

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01-20-2016 10:58 PM  31 months agoPost 52
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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rexxigpilot

"We should all remember that the FAA includes more modelers than non-modelers."

I guess I forgot about that. Somehow slightly reassuring someone has to know something about our beloved hobby at the FAA.

However.... Very serious subject for sure. The rise of the Quads may possibly end the hobby as we know it forever. Who wants to worry about more rules? how high up am I? how close might an emergency vehicle be? I just want to tool around the club field like I always have. For me... the hobby has lost some of the inertia it used to have. I have time, I can wait until this issue shakes out. I actually feel bad for the retired guys who spend their days at the field, everyday most of them. This is their retirement, their social network, how they keep busy and entertained and challenged with new projects planes or electronics. They deserve to have what they have always known and I would hope someday in the near future Ill be one of them.

Time will tell I guess.

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01-20-2016 11:19 PM  31 months agoPost 53
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Hoo boy. Tmoore, have a great respect for you and many of the others with so much to contribute to our "Hobby" but I have to respectfully disagree with your flight envelope. Sure I have a small ($60) drone and have flown it around my property, trying to get some sunset shots or horizon images, but I am not (yet) FPV. Not that I wouldn't like to be able to do this, I currently think Ill wait and see a bit how this all shakes out. Like another poster I didn't know how quad flyers fly. I assumed they always had line of sight, or a spotter when flying FPV. 1/4 mile? Out of your sight? You trust your equipment enough to have a quad that far away? I personally would not. That's just me. I surely would not want any RC flying object flying near my house or property with the pilot out of my vision. And I think that's my issue with your "flying envelope" Flying at our flying site, with a spotter (if FPV) or simply flying line of sight, I am quite good with that. Maybe the conflict here is I was expecting the Quads to fly as I do my 60 sized Helicopter.

I get that the possibility exists to fly outside that standard realm, and these quads are seemingly designed to do just what your talking about so why not use them as they may actually be intended.

I wont like any quads flying over my house, car (on the highway) back yard = my property. I have said this before in the past when Quads started to come out and was met with some disagreement on that very statement. It has only hit me today that this is quite possibly how the Quad owners wish to fly. I didn't even know you could fly that far off a standard Quad setup, didn't think the transmitter would get to the model when your that far out or up.

you mentioned 200 300 yards. Well the later is 900 feet and well into the Full scale airspace.

Please don't take offense here, and thanks for opening my eyes as well for I don't think your the exception here. If I wanted to fly FPV out over someone else's land, it would have to be up in the woods far from any homes, or on some large expanse of land say 100 acres or there abouts. Our club field is 25 acres. Seems like a lot until your on the flight line, then its really not so huge... you can see any plane or helicopter or medium size aircraft over this site and under say 400 feet. Yes the quads are white and blend into the sky/clouds, this is not new. I wont fly when my heli fades in the evening dusk sky when the light is low. Ive crashed more than once flying then. If the sky is white, I wouldn't fly a white aircraft, blue wouldn't fly a blue aircraft. My canopies are all bright yellow, green, red, so I can see them from far away. yea I agree white is not the best color for a quad. I am starting to see some black ones. When and if I buy another quad, Ill be painting it or stickering is with bright colors for sure.

And yea, I also found out about pulling the left stick back yields a Flailing quad trying to find the earth fast, but I swiftly powered back up prior to impact. Not pretty but works. I had to force myself back in the day (way back) to "fly" it to the runway after someone told me that's how I had to do it. Now I get it, I have to do the same, Fly the quad down with the right stick.... or
wait for it...
wait for it...

Hit the land button and wait for a perfect landing
I hope you realize that I just posted those videos. That's not me and I certainly don't subscribe to what Torp is talking about on either of those.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-21-2016 01:32 AM  31 months agoPost 54
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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I will fly below 400' by registration
accordingly as the r/c player is on the ground, so complying even if the r/c model is above the mentioned altitude

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01-21-2016 02:31 AM  31 months agoPost 55
Keymaker

rrNovice

Nj

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My phantom 3 has the 400 feet limit by default but it shows you how you can override it, there's just one problem it warns you that flying over 400 feet is prohibited and that if something happens its you as@ DJI also stores flight logs so before you do anything dumb think twice cause they can find you.

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01-21-2016 02:47 AM  31 months agoPost 56
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Watch at YouTube

This is another example of how we've been sold out as a group.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-21-2016 02:58 AM  31 months agoPost 57
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Wow, the DJI VP speaks. I love how he opens up with his drones being "the greatest revolution in aviation since the jet engine if not the wright brothers."

Humble much? GTFO

Apologies if I don't give deference. We are looking at someone who was instrumental in threatening a hobby that has been enjoyed for 80 years.

BTW, I could not help but read the youtube comments. Look at this genius post on youtube from a drone user. He's responding to someone upset that drones brought FAA into the hobby:
I am highly offended that u have the nerve to say I am part of this problem.
Really? How does this even affect a fixed wing rc pilot?
5 bucks that u get back if u register now. Will the added weight of a sticker with numbers on it really throw of the the C.G?
What are u afraid of?
U don't even fly with a camera or fpv.
Showing signs of your age by acting all pissy over something that doesn't even affect u.
Please go back to sniffing dope and keep your options to yourself regarding drones or UAVs
I'm offended that you're offended. Not to mention totally ignorant. Really thinks this doesn't affect fixed wing. Hah.

Then has the nerve to tell an upset fixed wing guy that he's technologically obsolete and tells him to sniff dope. GTFO

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01-21-2016 03:10 AM  31 months agoPost 58
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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Sorry tmoore i did not know it wasnt you. it did seem out of character

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01-21-2016 03:14 AM  31 months agoPost 59
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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No worries. I thought the videos were just to good not to post. Shows how far apart we are with our aerial appliance operating brethren.

Some of those dude's responding to the Roswell video really think highly of Schulman. I don't share their views of the man. IMHO he sold out modelers. Listen to what he said in the video. Both FAA and Schulman expects that every registrant will become a defacto arm of the FAA and drop a dime on anyone that is a "bad actor". This is straight out of the FAA playbook. Today I was forwarded a letter from the FAA via my Congressman that used identical language. The FAA actually believes that registration ensures that registrants will turn aerial appliance operators in for questionable flights we might witness.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-21-2016 03:07 PM  31 months agoPost 60
revmix

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NJ

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Promise to fly below 400'?!
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